The price of Freedom is...

[Kayode]

But the War is about putting an end to torture.

And US servicemen are perpetuating it.

Who has the moral upper hand here? If you're fighting for good against an axis of "evil", shouldn't you retain some level of moral authority?

What about Codes of Ethics? The Geneva Convention?


Without stuff like that the situation is simple Badjohn-ism. He who has the bigger stick can do as he likes. Kinda like how Saddam used to play it.

Although I find it intriguing that there aren't any official reports or photos or the like of Saddam's tortures and rape camps.


And don't you think it was hell for the Iraqi soldiers to see the to see as many as 8,000 Iraqi civilians dead in the War so far?

Remember this War was "pre-emptive"...the Americans invaded their country unprovoked.


The reason why most US soldiers in Vietnam killed innocent villagers and fragged their COs was because of low troop morale, brought on more often than not by the knowledge of the true nature of the war they were fighting.



So before you fall for the idiotic belief that being anti-War is the same as being anti-American, do some research and learn to think for yourselves.                    

[Bob]

You missed my point completely .

Did i not just say war brings out the worst humanity has to offer?Regardless of who's fighting it cruelty will always surface.Ethics and laws take a backseat during war time more often than not.

I directed the last line of my original post specifically at the people who have no idea what is goin on and bash "the american people" simply because its the "in" thing now.I never said being anti-war was being anti american.

Jesus christ you think everyone on these forums is below you dont you?                    

[Kayode]

So before you jump on the "I HATE AMERICA " bandwagon do some research and learn to think for yourselves.

Four posts later...

Jesus christ you think everyone on these forums is below you dont you?

Wait wait...you jump in a thread telling people to learn to think for themselves and then yuh offended when someone tells you the exact same thing?


Keep your insecurities to yourself partner.                    

[Waggy]

I don't think any war on Earth started because of level thinking. All wars started from hate/ignorance/greed.
Some guy thought Jews didnt deserve to live, so a war started. Some other guy thought His country should rule others around it and the civilians treated like crap....swords clashed. Some other guy was fedup of America's attitude and constant propoganda to the rest of the workd....concrete crumbled. Some guy realised that some other guy was a threat to him, so civilians are "freed" ( we all know death is being freed also)
     It's wierd that a Republican woke up one morning and decided to help another country. If he was a diplomat then maybe people would believe him. It's also wierd that people are actually shocked that prisoners of War are being treated badly. C'mon, a well treated POW is as rare as a good title by Head Games. We hate your country and what you do so if we capture you we'll treat you with steak, bubble baths and nice clothes?You had bullets with my name on them, now it's time to pay. And Kayode I dunno why you're trying to deviate readers from natural human nature. Let them be. You're smart enough to know that it wont help.                    

[Kayode]

Some other guy was fedup of America's attitude and constant propoganda to the rest of the workd

No...not "their" attitude. Every country has jingoistic nationalism and propaganda. Terrorists strike America because of various administrations' foreign policies, their acts of terrorism, their financial exploitation and political manipulation of developing countries and their illegal and unjustified acts of war.

Terrorists don't hate America because they don't like America's "attitude". It's much more than that. They're not the most moral or rational people around, but they not that trivial.

And Kayode I dunno why you're trying to deviate readers from natural human nature. Let them be. You're smart enough to know that it wont help.

All I know is that people need to hear all sides of the story.                    

[TriniXaeno]

clap clap clap clap

If you really want to know what war and being a prison of it is like, play Zoldner!                    

[Waggy]

I know it's not just "their" attitude. That was just a summary. And yes, there's always multiple sides to a story.Do you agree that America promotes the most propoganda? But then again We were never in Iraq to hear what they are being told.
I can still remember Sept. 11th. msn.com updated news every 15 minutes that day, and what struck me was a picture they put up. Children in Afghanistan in the streets and in the sunlight celebrating the fall of the Towers that morning......it was night time in Afghanistan.                    

[Kayode]

That "celebration" picture was eventually revealed to be a fraud. It was actually footage of some other event or situation from years before.

And Middle Eastern countries have just as much propaganda as America...some would argue that their propaganda is more insidious because it's linked so closely to religion.

All America has over them in that department is a powerful mass media and a relatively content general public that's too distracted too question authority.

There's just too much about this thing that people don't know.                    

[Kayode]

clap clap clap clap

If you really want to know what war and being a prison of it is like, play Zoldner!

Zoldner would make a great torture device. Strap up 60 men for a 30v30 Conquest on the demo...they go be tellin yuh the inner workings of Saddam's regime within minutes.                    

[Rampage]

                   

[Rampage]

i put up a big tune about war for allyuh:

http://rampage.myftp.org/Edwin_Starr-War.rar

download it there , its Edwin Starr's War song.

and here are the lyrics to it so you can sing along :


Oh no-there's got to be a better way
Say it again
There's got to be a better way-yeah
What is it good for?
*War has caused unrest
Among the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die?
War-huh
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War-huh
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Yeah
War-I despise
'Cos it means destruction
Of innocent lives
War means tears
To thousands of mothers how
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives
I said
War-huh
It's an enemy of all mankind
No point of war
'Cos you're a man
*(Repeat)
Give it to me one time-now
Give it to me one time-now
War has shattered
Many young men's dreams
We've got no place for it today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord, there's just got to be a better way
It ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War
Friend only to the undertaker
War
War
War-Good God, now
Now
Give it to me one time now
Now now
What is it good for?                    

[Rommel]

just note

trinis capable of that same shit and there are some of our fellow countrymen who are guilty of offenses along those same lines

we no better off

fight for change for the better here
then for over there
but do something other than complain

(this is not directed at Kayode, it is for all the lazyass gatters who post for the sake of mouthing complaints)

btw where did you get that pic...........                    

[Kayode]

Those pics all over the net and all over newspaper front pages.

I got those on a political forum, but they're posted on dozens of official news sites including AP's, BBC's, MSNBC's and even Fox's.

Go to Google News.

There's apparently a motherload of more than 1200 pics and possibly even video clips that will hit the web eventually.