the truth

[Kayode]

Moore should be able to use the truth and nothing but the truth to argue his points.

But he leaves out facts conveniently, and gives people one-sided views of situations. That's the exact same thing Bush and them fellas do.

He has the right idea, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.





And this whole idea of a perspective "America" has created.

Michael Moore is an American. Does that make him automatically guilty as well?

Brother, it's an adminstration...a regime...a few people on top who are majorly responsible for the stuff that's happening now.


When you label "America" as responsible you're as bad as the people who call all Muslims terrorists.

There are tens of millions of Americans wo vocally stand against Bush and the War and millions who know exactly what's going on.

Get it through your head: All Americans are not Bush/War supporters.

"America" is not the enemy.                    

[richjob]

U forgot something  

April 19941994: Genicide in.....cant remember name..... There was a power in that country that could kill over 2000 people a day....... Over 2 million people died in less than 1 month.......... U.S did nothing......... They did not even call it a genicide.......Gay americans
If they help they would have save thousands of thousands of lives...

Rwanda.

Tutsis and Hutus.

There are only interests, not right and wrong sides.  That, too, is relative.

With every year you learn a bit more.                    

[richjob]

sure it may have been \"biased\" @ some point or d other
but it is the truth and it is real
you have been blinded by the preety picture dat the media has portrayed of the US
you have fallen for the sympathy ploy
and fail to see the real problems

it may have given u the impression dat it justifies bin laden's actions
but it is jus showing you it from his point of view

Americans are not the enemy.

I have several American friends who cheerfully call their leader President Asshat.

It is the actions of a particular group of powerful people in the US.

Google "the boy who cried Iraq"                    

[carlsberg]

Moore should be able to use the truth and nothing but the truth to argue his points.

But he leaves out facts conveniently, and gives people one-sided views of situations. That's the exact same thing Bush and them fellas do.

He has the right idea, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.





And this whole idea of a perspective \"America\" has created.

Michael Moore is an American. Does that make him automatically guilty as well?

Brother, it's an adminstration...a regime...a few people on top who are majorly responsible for the stuff that's happening now.


When you label \"America\" as responsible you're as bad as the people who call all Muslims terrorists.

There are tens of millions of Americans wo vocally stand against Bush and the War and millions who know exactly what's going on.

Get it through your head: All Americans are not Bush/War supporters.  

\"America\" is not the enemy.

i can't exactly write down all the bad americans...so i jus try to make it general
plus...most of the society is biased..
EG. i had a muslim frend who went 2 america not 2 long after 9-11 and he told me evry1 was lukin @ him funny...as if he gonna kill dem or sumtin

i don't mean 2 bring down all americans but ican't write down all de bad guys.....and most of the society is biased....cause majority rules...it was dem dat electing dese damn no good presidents                    

[Flippant]

carlsberg:
apparently you werent around for the 2000 elections. the man was COURT APPOINTED not elected by the majority. the majority voted for gore.                    

[Rommel]

remember that the president of the US merely decides how best to compromise the wishes of those in "power"
i.e. those who put the president in power

people have to truly understand who the Americans percieve to be their enemyand why to be able to justify their pro-war or anti-war stance and as far as I have seen most people don't understand that or much of anything else

most opinions of America are incomplete and biased no matter if it is for or against

while I am pro america and even pro war to some extent I must inform most people that America does more than others for the benifit of people and Europian and Asian world powers are just as bad as america (if not worse)
but since america is the richest it is quite easy for the rest of the world to blame all their troubles on america
most citizens are arrogant about their country in some way or the other
but most are ill informed/mislead as well

I think Bush is doing what he thinks is right
notice that it is not the most popular decision, internally or internationally
who among you are not happy to see Iraq free
and if the US troops pulled out long ago the result would be a simple invasion of Iraq by Iran or internal anarchy, etc.
rome wasn't built in a day, and not with out a lot of work,

btw most of the UN security council opposed the US's war in Iraq for the sole reasons of greed and politics
don't fool yourselves otherwise

big ups to Kayode, his is an informed opinion that I can respect
and I agree, but I think Michael Moore is full of it

most of what calsberg posted at the top needs the rest of the facts that would go along with it
for example the vietnam war
who killed who
the americans did not just plant themselves in vietnam and start killing indisciminatly
the north did kill south vietnamese and americans
and overthrew a country to boot

besides killing the guy trying to kill you in a war is what you do
because US is better at it........
(yes it was a war the north did infiltrate the south)                    

[Kayode]

btw most of the UN security council opposed the US's war in Iraq for the sole reasons of greed and politics
don't fool yourselves otherwise

Fuh real?

Heh.

Alyuh great oui.

What do 52 African nations have to gain by opposing America and potentially cutting off financial aid? What did Trinidad have to gain? And the other 100+ nations that opposed it? Out of all those the only ones with anything to gain were France, Russia and China.


Rommel, understand something completely and totally. America isn't warring with Iraq for goodwill or to "liberate" anyone.

Afghanistan has been virtually dumped by America since their "liberation". They're worse off now than before.


This war is all about securing financial and political interests. Every American war has been about that. Possibly every war ever fought.


http://www.theboywhocriediraq.com/

Take a read and educate yourself. More than just a rant...better than Moore. Complete with sources and facts.


I don't understand how people can read facts and see information like that and not understand what the War is really about. There really is no way to defend Bush or his administration for what they're doing now. None. Zero.                    

[Rommel]

security council

I said the security council
is TnT on the security council
are 52 african nations on the security council

specifically
germany
france
russia

but do you even read what you quote noooooooooooooooooo

sheesh                    

[Kayode]

Nice. My bad.

Yuh proving the point though.

If you can believe that Russia, France and China voted against the War for oil and greed, why can't you believe that America voted for the War for those same reasons?

It's just a bunch of superpowers fighting over Iraq's oil.                    

[Kayode]

I think Bush is doing what he thinks is right
notice that it is not the most popular decision, internally or internationally
who among you are not happy to see Iraq free
and if the US troops pulled out long ago the result would be a simple invasion of Iraq by Iran or internal anarchy, etc.
rome wasn't built in a day, and not with out a lot of work,

The popularity of the decision is irrelevant. Hitler's decision to invade Poland wasn't popular either. I doh know if you're trying to invoke some kinda moral slant to this.

Iraq would have been free eventually the same way American won its freedom: Through revolution and internal change. That's what makes countries stronger and great.

America is only there to put itself in a position to secure certain resources that Iraq has.


Buy yuh correct: Bush is doing what he thinks is right...for his pals in Halliburton et al.





Yuh know what else funny about the "liberation" of Iraq? The millions of Iraqis who didn't want Saddam gone in the first place and are actually protesting America's presence in the country. Are they not Iraqis as well?

Yuh doh push yuh head in complicated matters like that unless you have something you want for yourself.                    

[Rommel]

but I don't believe that America is that good
I believe that they are better than the rest and I am content with them at the helm since things would be a lot worse
if China, North Korea or even Germany was the world's superpower

until humanity grows up I think that they are the best we got and I can appreciate their reasons for doing things
everyone else would at least do the same

the whole american bashing "trend" while valid in some points does improve the position of several unsavory characters in the world political forum

and I just plain believe in the american and english militaries, and the honor of the people who are of them
some of what people says simply tarnishes two very decent set of people
however I am under no illusion that the highest leadership is not under the negative influence of politics                    

[Kayode]

You can't be complacent about that.

You can't settle for "good enough". Over time "good enough" becomes "not good at all".

Iraq was "good enough" for America just twenty years ago.

Bashing America is not a "trend" for all of us, and definitely not for me. I don't bash the country. I bash the leaders and individuals who make life worse for all of us, Americans included.

A military is just a tool. An army does what they're told. And look who's doing the telling. Corrupt presidents and oil barons.

And decency in war? heh.

Be careful who yuh putting yuh trust in. A soldier is just a soldier.                    

[Kayode]

...And more on the Military man himself, Colin Powell.                    

[Rommel]

Colin Powell is a politician, as is any head/former head of the US joint chiefs

while your opinion is informed these days I find all sorts of people who don't really know what america
has done or not done so to me it seems that they just jump on a bandwagon

there is no decency in war but the people who have to do the fighting are not "indecent baby-killers"
and yes they are just a tool but even they have limits in their actions
the whole country known as america can tolerate only so much
at least they have some kind of checks and balance system in that society (I say that it is better than ours)

but while you are right about not being complacent, I will continue to believe, until humanity "grows up" we cannot do any better, or at least much better,

and until we have access to all the information there is any opinion is, in the end, on the bases of principal, incomplete, or at least cannot be said to be complete as we cannot say that there is nothing that "we" do not know                    

[Kayode]

Yeah but Rommel the information against Bush's actions as "humanitarian" or "honest" is overwhelming. The situation screams greed, corruption and utter dishonesty on Bush's part.

And if you think incomplete information is a good basis for inaction, then how can you support the war? That whole thing is based on incomplete information, invalid sources, lies, half-truths and more lies.

I figure we will have to agree to disgree because I think that we can do better. Easily too.                    

[PapaSmurf]

sure it may have been \"biased\" @ some point or d other
but it is the truth and it is real
you have been blinded by the preety picture dat the media has portrayed of the US
you have fallen for the sympathy ploy
and fail to see the real problems

it may have given u the impression dat it justifies bin laden's actions
but it is jus showing you it from his point of view

I think it's time that the education systems in this country teach economics BEFORE they teach anything to do with politics. Maybe then u will realise that this never has, had or will have anything to do with ideological conflict. It's all about economics.

It's not all of America who is monopolizing Jamaica's core industries.Is not the ppl who live in the cities who made the decision to invade a country 2000 miles away on the WHIM that they were guilty of an ambiguous crime. Its not my relatives in Manhattan who all got together to decide that EVERYBODY has to use a democratic model for government and those who go towards the Left get bombed. No.

It's the rich finance capitalists who decided that one can never have enough money, and it's better to take it from the 3rd world than their own ppl. A certain class of ppl in America are trying to issue in a new type of Imperialism via Neo Colonialism. Political Independence is exchanged for economic servitude.

That's why the IMF under the US supervision has Jamaica by the balls.
That's why Iraq was invaded, oil.
That's why they stamped out almost (Cuba) all forms of socialism in their back yard of the Caribbean eg Grenada.


It happened in Jamaica, Guyana, Grenada etc....and it can happen here.                    

[Exar_Kun]

Any sort of 'political invasion' that the US can carry out on 3rd world countries would have to be invited and allowed.
If you deal with a big nation then you have to expect and accept that at some level they're only going to want something from you since you're a small one.
If not,you always have the option of cutting ties like Cuba.

While US justification of the war in Iraq is complete crap,the end result for iraqis I think is a lot better than if Saddam were allowed to remain in power.They may have their own reasons but its not like they gain all the good from this war.                    

[Rommel]

the end of the day we must accept that there is more going on than we know so any opinion is hardly truth, just speculation

non of us know anything and most of us here know even less since we are ignorant to the same things that happen in our own country with some exceptions

however not every thing the US does is all big and evil just because and the rest of the world is no better
so people should stop accusing them for no good reason other than the ravings of a retarded fool named moore
the US really does nothing special or new

that is the truth                    

[Kayode]

People aren't all accusing America because of Moore. Many people are disgusted because of the facts that stand against them.

Those facts are a good reason.

And just because "everyone else is doing it" isn't a reason to get complacent.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

At the end of the day it's our responsibility to expose what is wrong and deal with it in ALL countries, and move accordingly. We must never let things slide.                    

[carlsberg]

who among you are not happy to see Iraq free  
and if the US troops pulled out long ago the result would be a simple invasion of Iraq by Iran or internal anarchy, etc.  
rome wasn't built in a day, and not with out a lot of work

IRAQ FREE!!!
are ucrazy...they are not free.....the americans are still in there
i can't understand why they don't leave dem be....let dem sort out thier own affairs
its IRAQ not IRAQ/U.S .........get out of the country
the U.S is to power hungry,greedy,controlling and seek thier own interest

there was no reason 4 dem 2 invade IRAQ in d 1st place