THe Matrix Trilogy thread

[shivadee]

WHo said NEO is not the ONE? he IS the ONE!!
Dont you understand the whole story with the source code and all?

NEO carries THE CODE of THE ONE. His body is a vessel, like the other ONE's.

Why will THE ONE return? Well hell humans of course. Humans are stupid, they make mistakes, they get into trouble. Humans will live in peace and then some faction of idiots will want more power, they dont like being treated as such, machines are made by THEM so they should be king, blah blah blah.......some @ss going to bonks into 01 and cause crap.....what you expect? Its HUMAN NATURE......THE ONE will have to return.

Why Trinity had to die. Trinity died because she fulfilled her purpose. Friggin die already? ALyuh sure as SH!T wasnt expecting her to die ent? THey spend the time to hit you HARD with that, make you FEEL it. NEO doin all this crap for she and now she gone. But the point was that tHere was nothing left for her to do, it was her fate, if it didnt happen NEO would have lost the battle with SMITH, he would not have given in, and SMITH would have won. To add to that NEO realizes he didnt do all this for Trinity, he did it to bring BALANCE.

What you mean purpose? Well without her NEO couldnt have gotten where he did. He would never have resurrected himself in the end of M1 for her love, he would not have chosen the other door and said "to @ss with humans i goin an save my woman" he would not have gotten out of the trainstation in time or ever he would not have been able to reach 01 on his own and he sure as SH!T would not have wanted to die in the final battle cuz he want to be with his woman, and she is alive. ON TOP OF THAT, you think the machines give 2 @ss bout Trinity? What she could do for them? Nothing.........boyshot she dead. NEO wont help the machines if this happens, problems start.
Trinity HAD to die. If she did not NEO would not have realized that he had to sacrifice himself. He went into the Matrix the last time with the intention of kicking SMITHs collective @ss. Only when he realize when the Oracle spoke THROUGH SMITH telling him "everything has a beginning...blah blah blah" that he realize that he HAD TO sacrifice himself.
WHY? Well NEO is already at the source. The only way SMITH could be deleted was to go to the source. If they unplugged everyone from the matrix and everyone SMITH cloned they STILL would not have gotten all the SMITHS, all the Agents he cloned, the original program and even the SUPER SMITH would still be there.
When SMITH clones NEO one thing happena. Smith reaches the source. When the program reaches the source it can be deleted and therefore the ENTIRE SMITH VIRUS is GONE.                    

[shivadee]

Like you musta missed the entire purpose of ZION in that scene. That scene was put there not to show a big party but to show hope, and to show no fear. To show belief in a prophecy that people said MUST be true. Lock was of one belief but SO many others were of another, of a belief in NEO. But when the sh!t hit the fan in Rev, yuh see what happen, all de man dem pick up weapons to fight. To add to that people use ALOT and i mean ALOT of religious, especially Catholic religious purposes to explain that scene. I not Catholic so i cant say.

Nothing in the Matrix was real so how could it possibly be like the real world? It was used to make it LOOK like the real world. You see NEO fly in the end of M1 so NATURALLY you would expect to see that in M2. The agents didnt stand a chance either in the end of M1, and again in M2 you see that. You see neo do ANYTHING different in M2 than in M1? He stopped bullets, he cut @rse, he flew and he allow bullets to pass through a body (his in M1 after Smith shot him and Trinities in M2). In M1 NEO is NOW learning his powers, in M2 he is using them better.I dont understand your argument, could you elaborate?                    

[Imperial_X]

so why Switch does wear white?
why you seing Others like Bane and Niobi in brown and green clothes (green like the MATRIX green).
nah not really. There are only 10 ships in ZION that have crew on them. They would know all the people.
Brahma, Logos, Osiris,Gnosis, Vigilant,Mjoinir (Hammer), Caduceus,Icarus, Nebacadnezzar and Novalis. You bonks up most of the captains and crew in the beginnig of Reloaded.

I said normally anyway.  They had a selection of clothes available from the construct and what not but what I was emphasizing on more was the wearing of shades rather than the clothes.  Hey, with all theories come anit-theses and what have you but that's just what I thought about it anyway.  Seeing as all the ppl still enslaved in the matrix normally don't wear shades, it would be easier for them to know who is who.  It's about efficiency of thought in those tight situations when say good ole Agent Smith is after your ass.

Man, I still encounter people who fail to comprehend the "heights" behind the bullet time camera.  Few ppl noticed that in M1.  When Trinity was goin down in that helicopter and NEO reacted by wrapping his arm around the rope or whatever.  His arms were moving as fast as the rotor blades which is LIGHTNING FAST.  They slowed it down and they were both moving the same speed and I was blown away man.  Nearly spontaneously combusted or something.  WAAY cool!!!!!                    

[Rommel]

WHY? Well NEO is already at the source. The only way SMITH could be deleted was to go to the source. If they unplugged everyone from the matrix and everyone SMITH cloned they STILL would not have gotten all the SMITHS, all the Agents he cloned, the original program and even the SUPER SMITH would still be there.  
When SMITH clones NEO one thing happena. Smith reaches the source. When the program reaches the source it can be deleted and therefore the ENTIRE SMITH VIRUS is GONE.

I thought it was because NEO and Smith were polar opposites
when NEO was cloned, the Smith virus, (anti neo, like antimatter) was destroyed on assimilation
not on contact though because the interface was goverened by the rules of the matrix

honestly it has been a while so I can't remember facts, just theroies

and the baddest trilogy is the original SW

Nazgul have nothing on Darth Vader

but what would you call the complete set of episode 1-6?                    

[shivadee]

THe baddest trilogy IS the original star wars. I can actually quote all three of those movies by heart, nearly the whole thing got 2 original copies on VHS till the trilogy is released in September. Know most if not all the bloopers. How many Storm Troopers DIE on screen in ROTJ? 56. got the trivial pursuit star wars with the thousands of questions, bloopers and things about the movies and i read the expanded universe books from Heir to the Empire to the New Jedi Order with Luke 25 years in the future, played most of the star wars games (yep including Star wars, ESB and the 2 ROTJ games for Atari going up)

Oh yeah b4 i forget. sCAR man i totally respect your comment on the movie why you didnt like it. Daz cool stuff  
I dare not compare Matrix to the original SW,i respect both too much. Well laertes at least you like something on the thread, glad it wasnt a total loss and Morgan saves the day
Did you get your hands on the leaked footage of EP3 as yet? WHere Anakin is starting to give into the dark side with all this long hair and stuff?


Very good point Imperial, that is true he was already moving very fast and the look on Morphs face when he saw him do this was proof. It wasnt just because you see a man holding a line with a falling hellicopter on the other end, which is still something amazing. cool stuff, actually i didnt really notice that!!  :shock:  

Rommel that actual reason was exactly what i though when i first came out of Rev. but i dont think its right. You see Smith EXISTS because of NEO. Smith is the equation trying to balance itself out like ORACLE said to NEO in Rev. SMITH was created BY the Architect to balance the NEO program. However all hell break loose etc and he could not be controled.
When Smith clones into NEO one assumes that since they are opposite it could be that reason or that the matrix does not tollerate imballance. Meaning that if he clones into NEO there would be 2 negatives instead of a positive and it would be deleted. This cannot happen because THE ONE cannot be deleted, and it was stated by the Architect in M2.

"You are the eventuality of an
anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate
from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision."

So SMITH would not have been canceled out if NEO was not canceled out. BUT wait, look at the end of Rev if you ever borrow it on DVD and see the part where NEO dies and the machines start to move away with him. LOOK AT THEIR EYES, they are no longer red, there GREEN. Watch as they load him up onto the machine to take him away, its eyes are changing to green and all the machine buildings in the background are turning green. Did you see Animatrix? Watch Metriculated where they convert a machine to the human side, the eyes are green as well. It was proof that the CODE of the one was still there, and that it was not deleted.                    

[Imperial_X]

Man this movie blows so many away on the intellectual level.  But for research purposes, I'd rather go hijack the Wachowski brother's all militant like for answers.                    

[shivadee]

They were inteviewed ONCE for the public, not the Matrix Revisited DVD but in chatroom on the official Matrix site. people were so STUPID. Instead of asking about the movie and significances it was "do you guys do kung fu too?" "Is Keanu cool?" "Was the movie hard to make?"
arggghhh......these guys barely come out to talk about the movie and this is what you ask them?!!
I have a feeling that they may never come out though and explain the trilogy. They will leave it as a mystery to us all to try to solve. Rev is out on DVD and more than likely a super duper 3 disc box set will come out and with all the deleted scenes etc etc.
Some people think there will be a part 4. Well the Bros said no way, if there IS another one they wont be directing it. God i hope they end it at this, the ending was perfect, leave it just so. But then again, if they make a part 4 (oh lord i hope it not like Batman and Robin) then people will start to appreciate the trilogy more. But i realy dont want to see no "Matrix kick back" or "Matrix Resurection" or some crap.                    

[Evangelion_01]

*bows to shivadee respectfully*

Man, I been waiting SO long to her some philosophy about this trilogy for SO damn long. Every time a thread was made, it was always 'who badder dan who' or 'who dreader than who'. You have my utmost respect for starting this thread.

Now, pardon me for I haven't seen M2 or 3-despite I have M2 on DVD, but I lack a DVD player in my area (kinda weird out of the whole St. Joseph area NOBODY have a working DVD player :|) and I haven't seen much of what you speak. I refused to go to the theatres to see M3 and M2 because I knew I'd be practically stressed at hearing those horrible fanboys yell and whoop and manke a lot of stupid comments. Not meaning to be offensive to anyone, not sound superior, but I rather go to a movie with an intelligent audience and not one where everyone keeps yelling 'aye man, dat was realll maddd...' or 'man, smith could real beat up he tail' etc etc. So you see my point somewhat. Animatrix-bleah, this too I haven't seen yet, so the prospect of musing on its meaning is absent from me. But in time I will gain the knowledge as well. But from the comments and explainations I've seen here, I can draw sufficient imagery from them.

I'm a fan of LOTR, Tolkien on a whole and the SW series. I'm not very versed in the SW set, but I know enough to hold my ground. But I am NOT gonna compare any of the above to M-as I have seen many,many, many, many, many, IGNORANT fanboys do. They are separate series with separate meanings by separate people and are not tied in any way. But this is besides my point right now.

I've read a few backgrounders from the M trilogy and I must say its very thought provoking. If one saw the eps. of Screensavers and other little 'doccumenatries' you'd be convinced of its meaning somewhat as well. But it takes a person like shiva~ here to actually DO the research behind the fine print and get the full prospect of what is really going on. Nuff props to him for that.

As for that book, name and author if you don't mind shiva? PM me with the info and any other books you may know that can encourage a bit more thought? Thanks if you can.

I'll get back to you on this topic-meanwhile I'll keep an eye on the thread for you                    

[SPK]

lol boy Eva, u know u could bring that by me if u wanna watch that damn movie..

But why do that when u have the precious to watch instead?                    

[PapaSmurf]

The matrix - mindblowing series enriched with the 20th century themes of existenialism and purpose. Truly groundbreaking series setting a new level in digital cinematography.

The Animatrix : No words, just watch it and know....Anime ownz joo

The matrix: Reloaded - an excellent sequel in replicating and amplifying the visual effects and world depth we have come to expect from the Matrix series. Though an odd story and extremely unbelievable phenomena (Neo = Superman with resurrection powers) leaves the viewer somewhat puzzled. However, such might be the desired result if setting up the ending chapter of the triology.

The matrix: Revolutions - level ballz. What the F*** kinda ending was that? all that war for what? nothing. Frustrating and lacking any sense of closure. I suggest urinating on the tape for this movie to strike back at the producers and the W brothers for wasting 2hrs of yr time.

Smurf's opinion. See the Matrix and the Animatrix and watch reloaded 3/4way. After the Architect scene turn off the VCR and know that the Matrix is a cycle that no one can break or escape. So in other words, if u have beef with the machines....take yr lube and like it.                    

[shivadee]

Nah man Smurf i fine Rev was the bomb. When the movie finish i was dumbstruck. The movie was brilliant.

If yuh doh like it that real cool. But lemme explain why this movie was like this

The HERO DIED. FANTASTIC. How many movies have we seen where the Hero lives. He or she fights, gets their @ss whooped, and comes back in all their glory and redeems themself? ALL the time we seeing this, its boring, everyone knows the outcome

You see the movie ended with everyone thinking about the first movie which is dead wrong. Thats why they spend so damn long with big words and long conversations in M2 and M3. You learn it wasnt some damn prophecy to fullfill so really and truly all this fighting in the first place was pointless. But they fought because its HUMAN nature, and they didnt know jack sh!t either. They just acting.....and when humans are threatened they fight.
The Matrix is not the cycle that people cannot break or escape atall atall
Heres why

Every single thing that happened to the humans was caused as a DIRECT effect OF the humans. They bring about their own demise

Humans want to destroy B166ER he retaliates
Humans get jealous and destroy machines they go and build 01
Humans get jealous of machines increased economy and start a war, machines fight back
Humans try to block out the sun, machines whoop their @ss and use them as power (ha HA!!)


dont you get it? EVERYTHING the machines do MUST be done by humas first? THEY need humans to survive, to make the choices for them. Its a BIG part about what the movie is telling us. Like what was SATI?
Sati was really put there because Gloria Foster (the original Oracle) died and they make this BRILLIANT story incorporating ENTER THE MATRIX and REV to show the trasition. SATI is there to tell us the difference between humans and machines is not emotion, it is CHOICE.

And it was this VERY CHOICE that caused NEO to do what he did.
how did it end?
A HUMAN declares truce to an age old war, the machines accept

ITS what they ALWAYS wanted, but again, if you think like a human (really strange to say this) you will not get this movie's ending ATALL.  The machines NEEDED someone to make the CHOICE FOR THEM. NEO makes this choice.

What you mean people cannot escape the matrix? Thinking like a human again (No dissrespect to Smurf atall, im just making a point and using it in general context). What is the big deal really? How does the Architect think? How do the machines think.......same way YOU must understand this, afterall its THEIR matrix

Humans that want out will be freed, those in ZION will not die and will be allowed to live in peace.
NOW, those that want out from the matrix, no big deal!!! The machines will free them. Hommuch will be freed anyway? How much of them become self aware? in the ENTIRE series we only see 2 and of those 2 only ONE escapes, the KID. The runnner did not get out and he is lost between the two worlds.
How is this a big loss to the machines? If a handfull want out, well fine, get out, you not troubling our matrix and you living in peace like you said.
The others oblivious to thier existence....well waz the big deal? You think they WANT to get out? hardly, most of them may want to stay their living their lives. Well FINE leave them. They happy and the machines happy. Harmony. NEO Balances the matrix equation.                    

[richjob]

http://wylfing.net/essays/

Read and debate, folks...                    

[shivadee]

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/matrix50.html

for a good laugh read this. Very funny                    

[Rommel]

You see Smith EXISTS because of NEO. Smith is the equation trying to balance itself out like ORACLE said to NEO in Rev. SMITH was created BY the Architect to balance the NEO program. However all hell break loose etc and he could not be controled.  

Smith was created as a Agent, how is it that he was "made" to balance neo?
NEO/the one already exists to balance the equation due to human variables/imperfections
the architect would've made all agents like simth if he thought that this specific agent could oppose the one

remember Smith is a sentient program
he is not governed by the normally "laws" of programming as we know it
he decided not to be deleted
and became a virus
as well as neo's rival

the anomaly in the programming cannot be deleted but the one can die, the programming won't be affected
the anomaly will just do as it has always done
manifest itself in someone when the scales of the programming decides that it must

So SMITH would not have been canceled out if NEO was not canceled out. BUT wait, look at the end of Rev if you ever borrow it on DVD and see the part where NEO dies and the machines start to move away with him. LOOK AT THEIR EYES, they are no longer red, there GREEN. Watch as they load him up onto the machine to take him away, its eyes are changing to green and all the machine buildings in the background are turning green. Did you see Animatrix? Watch Metriculated where they convert a machine to the human side, the eyes are green as well. It was proof that the CODE of the one was still there, and that it was not deleted.

the eyes change colour not because of the code of the one but because the "attitude" of the machines changed
the one had nothing to do with the change in the machine in Metriculated
it was because he started to empatise with the humans

rember there was 5 like NEO before and they are not alive, the code of the one isn't so much a separte program
rather it is a part of the matrix program that seeks to balance the imperfect equation (and it also might be the programming representation of the subconsious desire to be free from the matrix; in the perfect matrix it was enough to awaken the humans en massbut in the imperfect matrix their consious minds were fooled and imprisoned)

remember that it is a ficticous story and that the science of the plot may have holes
jap anime isn't normally tight with all the details
the story doesn't have to be complete to be good

and the plot of animes are given more credit than they should
once you get past the concepst (which are very cool) you could deciper the story quite easily

yes I think the plot of the matrix is simple I just haven't looked at it meticulosly, but I think I got the flow;
normally I don't need long to figure these things out

and I would like to debate some SW expanded universe                      

[shivadee]

SMith was created as an agent but when NEO killed him (as Smith told him before the Burly Brawl) he said he knew what he had to do and he knew the rules. He was compelled to stay, compelled to dissobey. He could not explain it, he just knew he had to do it.
AGAIN.........when he returns he says "I am no longer an Agent of this system" he was a free man (as he said).
How do you think he could do that now? NATURALLY he was given the ABILITY to do that. When he returns he ISNT an Agent because NOW he is different, he is NOW the result of the equation trying to balance itself out (as the Orcale says)!! WHo BALANCES The equation? THE ARCHITECT. HE did not decide to not be deleted, he was given a PURPOSE (remember hes always talking about purpose?). This was his new purpose, GIVEN to him by the Architect (to balance THE ONE anomoly). Smith is now given more abilities than ANY program created by the Machines for the Matrix, but he CAN be deleted, unlike THE ONE.


You are right i believe, that makes more sense. THe attitudes of the machines have changed. That is a good point. But NEO isnt there to balance the equation at all!! He is there to UNBALANCE it. THE CODE of the One was created BY THE ORACLE to Unbalance the equation. Remember the Architect speech with NEo? He said she was introduced because people could not ACCEPT the balanced equation, that his version of a perfect world was not accepted by humans. THE ORACLE was put in, basically the HOPE for humans, she unbalances the equaton by putting in a program that COULD NOT be interfered with, therefore they would ALWAYS be imbalance and this way the people trapped in THE MATRIX would remain trapped. But the Architect and the Oracle are like Yin and Yang (Notice the yin/yang earing the Oracle wears). They constantly balance and imbalance the equation.

The reason why i like the matrix so much? There are absolutely no plot holes in this trilogy, none none none. Myself along with hundreds of posters on other sites always try to find plot holes, there are absolutely none, the story is perfect. But i am always willing to hear if there are any because nothing is perfect, i just havent found any.                    

[Imperial_X]

Who is the "Mother" of the Matrix that the architect spoke about?  I have my own ideas but I just would like to have that clarified.                    

[shivadee]

i think its THE ORACLE.

When the Architect mentioned the Mother of the matrix NEO said the ORacle............. the Architect said "please"
Some people think that he meant she was not the mother of the matrix, but i think he was saying that the term "Oracle" should hardly be a name for her. She was a program used to balance the Matrix, thats all she was and thats why she was introduced.                    

[PapaSmurf]

Dude, just yr the piggay u gonna get from the microwave and say u deserve it......don't ever analyze and add excess emotion where it has no place to be. .....the ending was ballz.

The real truth is there is no exit to the Matrix. the Matrix ownz joo....for further explanation please read my alternative ending to the Matrix : Revolutions.                    

[shivadee]

Daz cool boy smurf, if you doh like it wah yuh go do.                    

[Rommel]

of course he isn't an agent

because he is a virus

there is absolutely no reason that the architech was involved with the existence of the smith virus beyond the creation of the smith as an agent first
and the code of the one

that would make no sense as the architech doesn't need the one to control the matrix
rather he has created a system of control to neutrilize the one
and as such he did not need smith
so he did not bring smith back

the one isn't really a balance for the matrix
the matrix is imperfect and as a product there is an anomaly in the program expressed as the one
the imperfection comes with an emulation of actual life in the late 20th century
and a simulation of its "imperfect nature" (life is far from fair much less perfect)

the oracle simply was a program that was created to understand humans and as such she presented a concept for a matrix that humans would accept
however that matrix had an anomly
if the architect/the oracle created the one then it wouldn't be an anomly
because the one/anomly is a product of the imperfections of the matrix simulation
it cannot be destroyed
if it was a creation of either of these two programs then it would be destructable
otherwise the oracle wouldn't need protection.................

smith was compelled to stay because he was becomming more and more obsessed with neo as neo defeated him
rember he was originally obsessed with the destruction of zion
his emotional responses exceeded that of the other agents

rember if they were given the ability then said could be taken back or competed with
and neo wouldn't of been necessary to battle smith
also the architech knew that neo would have visited him soon in Reloaded
so then smith wasn't needed as he expected that neo would conform to the system of control implemented to neutalise the one
rember the system of control is the prophecy, not the anomly
the prophecy was implemented to control the one and zion so as to limit the danger that the resistance poses to the matrix