The Passion of 'the' Christ

[Aka_Neo]

i thought rampage or one of them close down threads like this.....i thought this causing a whole set of bacanal and ting huh yall ppl dont listten at all                    

[New Era Outlaw]

aight hoss i give u that i simply doh agree wit u on one thing OF COURSE IT WAS JUS A MOVIE U THINK THAT MEL GIBSON SAW WHAT HAPPEN TO CHRIST U THINK THAT ANYONE KNOWS THE PAIN HE WENT THRU SO WHO MY FRIEND are u to claim that something similar to that didnt happen to him and by the way the fine print to the bottom ppl didnt cry cause they were beleivers pppl cried beacause they started to beleive what may have happened to d big man they prolly drop a tear cause they see something of what he went thru to save us and those same people reemembered all the dotish crappy and stupid things they did in their life like cuss dey fadder never pray cussin on the whole steal and odder ting like that even though i respect your opinion i jus had to give u mine on yours
DOH BITE off mih head plain ole politics

Dammit, Q, ever hear of a full stop? Yeesh...
Q, let's get one thing straight here.
Jesus got scourged, yes...he was forced to carry the cross all the way to Mt. Calvary, definitely...and endured long and agonizing pain along the way, which saw no end until he said: "Unto you, My Father, I commend my spirit." But in that movie, if you see how grossly EXAGGERATED the gore and violence inflicted on Jesus was, you'd question just how in the blue HELL did he live through that scourging.
According to my father, Jesus 'spilled ten pints of blood' of that floor.
Remember, Jesus may be the Son of God, but he..was...still...HUMAN.
And NO human could endure that and go through more without dropping dead.
So, NO, I do NOT believe that the punishment was THAT extreme.
Calm yourself, Q....if you would even sit down and think about these things sometimes, you'd realise that Mel Gibson was being blasted ridiculous on the level of violence in that movie.

People crying? Converting because of a movie?
While I applaud Mel for bringing people closer to the word of God, a mere movie is NOT what should be motivating people to be closer to God.
You see this?



THIS is what should be motivating people.
It's been there for centuries, right there, since your great-great-great-great grandpappy's days.
All God told us to do was to read it, and believe in the Word of God.
But to go out and say that you believe because of a MOVIE?!
Unless you really DO believe and are prepared to do your Lord's will, that's complete and utter BS.
Remember, while Mel is trying his hardest to show us the agony Jesus went through for our sins, [perhaps, TOO hard], let us not forget....that is NOT Jesus on the big screen.
IT....IS...AN...ACTOR.
You hear me, an actor.
Therefore, it shouldn't be the characters you should be sympathising with, it's the very MEANINGFULNESS of what really happened that should be getting to you. It's a pure crock if you cry because the actor on screen is getting torn apart. You should be thinking of what Jesus went through for you, not just what you saw.

And people, let's NOT even regard what those weeping Americans said when we see them on the Entertainment channels after they saw the Passion. Just toss it out the freaking window. Fact is, Americans OVER EXAGGERATE their feelings sometimes, and just don't show the maturity to move on. Example? September 11th. They STILL won't move on with their lives, not even for the sake of their departed ones.
WE, and WE alone, should be the judges of what we believe, and the last thing we need to believe is the hype and the propaganda surrounding this movie. Weep if you want too, but I, at least, won't know what the hell you're weeping about. Jesus or no, IT'S STILL A MOVIE. GET THE HELL OVER IT.

People, I've given much more than my two cents on this topic.
As a Christian who expected a phenomenal change in the way he believes in the Word of God, this Outlaw got nothing but disappointment.
Disappointment at the fact that people are being hypocrites.
Disappointment that the movie was this close to being a Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
But most of all, disappointment that the REAL message behind the movie was lost in a blaze of rib-revealing gashes and enough pints of blood that would make a vampire squeamish.

So, Q, to answer your question as to just who the hell am I to say that something similar didn't happen to Jesus?
I am a Christian who picks up his Bible, reads what the New Testament has to say, and uses his damn LOGIC to know that a man doesn't shed 10 pints of blood and survives to pick up a cross, not even if it was the Son of God,[who was still a human, i cannot emphasize that enough] that's who I am! So THERE!!                    

[New Era Outlaw]

This thread was unlocked....excellent.

Still waiting to see the movie

Papa, boy, I am truly sorry.
Speaking as a fellow Christian, I could tell you that the movie will not be what you were expecting. It just falls short of being a complete slasher flick at times. The meaningfulness of our Saviour's sacrifice is just drowned out by the sheer brutality inflicted upon our Lord.

But...it's still your call, Papasmurf.
Go ahead and see it for yourself, but I'm warning you...don't expect much.                    

[New Era Outlaw]

Actually the RC Church publicly took the blame off Jews for the crucifixion of Christ when it adopted the \"New Vatican\" approach sometime in the 60s or 70s. The new approach had to do with the broadening of the Chruch's appeal, the introduction of English Mass as opposed to Latin, and the \"political correcting\" (apologising, denouncing) of the Church's many wrongdoings.

Because of this approach, many traditionalist sects broke off from the main Catholic Church, and these churches stuck with the old Catholic ways, still blaming Jews for Christ's death among other things.

Mel Gibson belongs to one of these sects.

Gibson's father, in several interviews, has made anti-semitic comments, and has gone as far as to say that the Jewish Holocaust never took place and was exaggerated.

All of that doesn't really mesh well with a movie that adheres to the portrayal of Jews as the ones who murdered Christ.  




It's that same Christ-murderer stigma that has fuelled anti-Jewish hate for centuries. Hitler used that as one of his justifications for the Holocaust.

And more than likely, what was written in the Bible about the Jews killing Christ probably isn't even true...particularly that \"blood curse\" about the blame for Christ's death being passed down as a curse from generation to generation of Jew.

Gibson had that curse in the movie btw. It's spoken, but the subtitle was removed.





That said, I'd like to see the movie eventually, because it really looks intriguing. I can understand why Jewish people are upset about it, but that's religion fuh yuh. As long as people keep with the belief that \"My God is better than yours\", we'll have this kinda foolishness.

I will stay at the sidelines here and laugh at it all.

You know, there are just some times where I tend to believe that the RC Church is acting on its OWN accord, and not that of the Word of God.
Sometimes it leaves me to wonder just who the heck are they to just absolve some things, and make it like it never happened.
History, and even the changing of the Sabbath to suit human convenience, would prove me right here.

But perhaps I've said too much now.                    

[Rommel]

this is actually a different thread that ramp did not see when he locked the other one

my two cents is that both the romans and those jews who were there (that is to say the individuals, not the religion)
are reponsible for the death of Christ

yes the romans did the dirty work at the end

but it was the jews that wanted him dead
and they stood by and watched him die
they did call for Barabus

bad things happen when people do nothing, whether good or bad
but not all jews who were there were complacant


and regardless, you cannot blame the jews who live now for the crimes of individuals in the past

however we must realise that there are those who would hate no matter the reason
if they don't blame the jews for the death of Christ
they would find something else
there hate is either an excuse of convenience for carrying out crimes (such as in the Palistine/Israel violence)
or is intensified by ignorance

Ramp

time to lock this thread                    

[Kayode]

No...this thread will never die!

Fight amongst yourselves Christians!!

Fight!! Battle!! Debate!!

Prove to each other who knows God best!!

Prove to each other who has a better relationship with God!!

Prove to everyone on the forum whose religion is superior!!


Prove to the world that your god is the most powerful god, just like in the days of old!! Show us nothing's changed since then!



Show us the stuff religion is made of!!


                     

[New Era Outlaw]

this is actually a different thread that ramp did not see when he locked the other one

my two cents is that both the romans and those jews who were there (that is to say the individuals, not the religion)
are reponsible for the death of Christ

yes the romans did the dirty work at the end

but it was the jews that wanted him dead
and they stood by and watched him die
they did call for Barabus

bad things happen when people do nothing, whether good or bad
but not all jews who were there were complacant


and regardless, you cannot blame the jews who live now for the crimes of individuals in the past

however we must realise that there are those who would hate no matter the reason
if they don't blame the jews for the death of Christ
they would find something else
there hate is either an excuse of convenience for carrying out crimes (such as in the Palistine/Israel violence)
or is intensified by ignorance

EXACTLY. I agree with you 100% Rommel.
Fact of the matter is, history is history.
The Romans and the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus, the Jews with their politics and the Romans actually carrying out the dirty work. We truly can't blame any modern day Roman or Jew for the actions of their ancestors.

And yes, Rommel, I do agree, people these days will find ANY and ALL excuses to be prejudiced, and ignorantly so. With regards to the Israelites, though, remember the Bible states that the people of Israel will find no rest, and will wander and be scattered all over the Earth, with no one place to call their own. While I abhor the violence in the Middle East, it has all been fortold.                    

[Kayode]

With regards to the Israelites, though, remember the Bible states that the people of Israel will find no rest, and will wander and be scattered all over the Earth, with no one place to call their own. While I abhor the violence in the Middle East, it has all been fortold.

This is the same attitude that has caused them to be under pressure. Amazing.

Two kinds of Christians: The ones who use the Bible's "prophecies" to actively condemn certain people, and the ones who use the Bible to be complacent and accept it as having been foretold.

They complement each other.

Nonsense. Which religion or people have any one place to call their own? Steups.


As for who's to blame for the death of Christ...why isn't anyone blaming God?

Didn't God send him to die? Didn't God ignore him when he lay weeping and begging in the Garden?

And what is it with God and this son-killing thing anyway? Remember Abraham?


Anyway...whatever rocks your boat.                    

[New Era Outlaw]

With regards to the Israelites, though, remember the Bible states that the people of Israel will find no rest, and will wander and be scattered all over the Earth, with no one place to call their own. While I abhor the violence in the Middle East, it has all been fortold.

This is the same attitude that has caused them to be under pressure. Amazing.

Two kinds of Christians: The ones who use the Bible's "prophecies" to actively condemn certain people, and the ones who use the Bible to be complacent and accept it as having been foretold.

They complement each other.

Nonsense. Which religion or people have any one place to call their own? Steups.


As for who's to blame for the death of Christ...why isn't anyone blaming God?

Didn't God send him to die? Didn't God ignore him when he lay weeping and begging in the Garden?

And what is it with God and this son-killing thing anyway? Remember Abraham?


Anyway...whatever rocks your boat.

Whoa, partner....you better watch your mouth before us God-fearing GATTers roast you at the stake.
Had you even studied your Bible, you would realise that it was the devil who was motivating all of those people to kill the Son of God. The devil wanted to extinguish all belief that Jesus was the Son of God, and incited hatred among the people, so that they would trun on Jesus and crucify Him.
Had you even paid attention to Jesus' prayers, you would know that this was all Jesus' destiny, and He knew it, and, in his current humanity, beseeched God to take the burden away from Him. Still, Jesus exalted the Lord in his prayers, and acknowledged His role to die for our sins. That is why it doesn't  seem like God was answering his prayers to lift the burden from Him, because nobody else but the Son of God can show the greatest sign of the Lord's power- that of the Resurrection, and the greatest sign of love the world will ever know.
When the devil saw that Jesus had been resurrected, his entire plan to cause faith in Jesus crumbled, as this was clear-cut evidence of the power of God. And, listen to this: HAD SATAN KNEW THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED, HE WOULD HAVE NEVER ATTEMPTED TO HAVE JESUS CRUCIFIED. Strike One.

Ever heard of the Vatican my friend?
It's located in Rome, considered to be the home of the Roman Catholic religion, despite being spread all over the world. Buddhism has a home in Asian countries, especially near Tibet, evident in the multitude of temples and followers. I guess that would count as religion having a place to call their own, ent? Strike Two.

On the topic of Abraham, it was a test by God to see how truly faithful Abraham was to the Lord. Trust me, the Lord would have NEVER allowed Abraham to put a hand on that boy, he merely wanted to see how truly unshakable Abraham's faith really was. Strike three.

Kayode, there is overwhelming evidence that proves you wrong on all three counts. You have clearly not done your homework before making all of these ridiculous statements. On top of that, you show great disrespect not only to me, but to everyone who knows and fears the power of the Lord, by implying that we should blame Him.
Think about it.
Just who in the blue hell are we to question the Lord?
He created everything around you, everyone around you and everything that will was and forever will exist.

So, Kayode, I'd advise you to do two things:
You take back that statement, as I find it to be a very offensive one, and then you go home, pick up your Bible and READ.
You wanted me to defend myself and my God?
Well partner, you HAVE IT!!!:hymc:                    

[rb2k2]

Speaking as a fellow Christian, I could tell you that the movie will not be what you were expecting. It just falls short of being a complete slasher flick at times. The meaningfulness of our Saviour's sacrifice is just drowned out by the sheer brutality inflicted upon our Lord.

NEO you obviously fail to realize that the crucifixion would have been even worse than what Mel showed in the film. If he actually showed the extent of roman torture that film would have gotten a NC 17 rating.  Go do some research                    

[New Era Outlaw]

NEO you obviously fail to realize that the crucifixion would have been even worse than what Mel showed in the film. If he actually showed the extent of roman torture that film would have gotten a NC 17 rating.  Go do some research

Uhmm...rb2k2...with all due respect, I have to ask you after seeing this debacle of a movie...have you officially lost it?
Did you see the amount of blood that man spilled when He was being scourged in the movie?! How about the brutality He endured beforehand?
All right...let me break it down for you. Jesus:

1. Was beaten by the soldiers arresting Him, up to the point where Jesus was nearly strangled when they hurled Him over the bridge. [Although it puzzles me just where in the Bible they said that.]
2. Was scourged to the point where the entire floor was littered with His blood, his body racked with gashes so deep that His rib cage was exposed [Did I mention that this lasted for 15 minutes?]
Let me tell you, I failed to see how this man even LIVE after that.
3. In this barely alive state, He was forced to carry a Cross up to Mt.Calvary, a cross which weighs so much that it took three guards to lift it.
4. Along the way, he was beaten and pelted with rocks.
5. He falls down four times [but the Bible says three], causing further damage to His body. Despite this, the guards still beat him savagely, at one point, kicking Him down.
6. He also had a crown of thorns that was forced deep into his skull during all of this. Now, I'm no doctor or anything, but if it was pushed to that extreme, it would have caused brain hemorraging, resulting in a faster death. Yet, He still doesn't die.
7. After all of this, He still makes it up to Mt. Calvary, where he is nailed to the Cross, and loses even more blood [What? After what I've seen in the scourging scene He still HAS blood?] Yet, He's still alive, but barely.
8. Jesus is placed up on the cross at last, but lives long enough to endure the events depicted in the Bible before he commends His spirit onto the Lord.

rb2k2, did you even see the movie?
The violence was grossly exaggerated, so much to the point where it would be absolutely ridiculous to even think that Jesus even survived the scourging, because from the wounds inflicted on Him, the content of blood lost, and the pressure He is about to endure, you can easily deduce that there is no man on this Earth that will even live to bear that cross after a savage beating like that. Remember, Jesus was STILL HUMAN. STILL HUMAN, and, considering His already tenderised state, even more susceptible to death under those conditions that the average man.

And so now, I ask you, what in God's name would make you think that Jesus, being human, would endure even MORE punishment than depicted in the movie? From all of those circumstances, a man would DIE, you hear me, DIE the second they ended the scourging. So the thought is laughable, because I think just cannot believe anyone would have the gall to think that level nonsense.

I cannot emphasize it enough.
The level of violence is grossly exaggerated in that movie.
While I do know that Jesus has endured living torture at the hands of those guards all in the name for our salvation, I also have the common sense to know that a man doesn't get beaten like that and even live to pick up a cross.
It is not fathomable to even think that Jesus would have actually suffered even WORSE than depicted in this movie, because by all rights, he..would...be..already...DEAD...AT....THE....SCOURGING!!

[ahem]
So, yes, rb2k2, I HAVE done my research.
I also know that while the movie is rated for all ages because it has been argued that children learning about God should see the torture Jesus endured all for our salvation, notice that there are warnings that parental guidance is strongly suggested, and no child would have been let in without a parent, at least in Movie Towne, BECAUSE of the violence.
Extent of Roman torture they say?
The FULL extent? :roflma::roflma::roflma:

What? You thought the beating wasn't savage enough?
in all seriousness, the beating was HORRENDOUS.
It was BRUTAL.
It was BEASTLY.
As in, I CAN'T IMAGINE IT GETTING ANY WORSE BECAUSE IT WOULD KILL ANYBODY HALFWAY THROUGH THE SCOURGING PART.
Get real.
Mel wasn't there to even see first hand how brutal it was, and neither do you or I. So NO, we DON'T KNOW. But common sense would tell you all of the above.
Actually worse he says....yeesh!
Jesus's rib cage was showing and he says it could have been worse.
Well yes!


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why, when it comes to matters such as this, you NEVER tell me I don't do my research.
My Bible isn't some cheap throwaway novel, you know.
I live my life by it.
Believe that.                    

[mangoseed_89]

actually NEO
i think rb might have a point
even though the torture was graphic
it didnt amount to how much our Lord truly indured
because no one can make a sacrifice even close to what he indured
in the bible they say
that when peter was arrested and they sentenced him to crucifixion
he told them he was not worthy to die like his master
so he requested for him to be crucified upside-down

but when you really get down to it
in the movie it was acting
what happen over two millenia ago
was real life                    

[Kayode]

Outlaw...I realise you're a fella who thinks a lot and that you value that ability.

That's good...so think a bit before you go off on a tirade.


John 3:16 said that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

It was foretold, as yall like to say.

It's right there in black and white. Don't put the cart before the horse. According to the Bible, God sent Jesus here to die. It was God's decision and God's own alone. No one causes God to do anything. No one can understand or try to understand why God does what God does.

The only word on the matter is in the Bible, and the Bible says clearly from Old Testament to New that Jesus' sacrifice was pre-ordained and decided by God even before he was born.

That means the Jews, the Romans, and even the Devil were simply playing their part in God's plan.

It also means that no one is to "blame" for the death of Jesus. Not Jews, not Romans, not anyone.

It's bigger than any blame game, according to the Bible. It's a sacrifice made to show the power and love of God, according to the Bible.

That's my point. That's why I'm saying that casting blame is nonsensical.


And I not trying to engage in any display of intellect or competition with you brother...so you can keep all them strikes to yourself.                    

[Kayode]

And how do you know that God wouldn't have let Abraham kill his son?

Do you presume to know how God thinks?

He sent his own son to die, why wouldn't he let another son die?

And I'm not even saying this in any bad anti-God way...I'm simply asking a question.

Why do you think you know what God would or would not have done? You were reading God's mind?

I will question the Bible or any Holy Text whenever I want to. The Bible was written by men, just like me. It was changed up, edited, and compiled according to the will of men.

I don't know if it's ever dawned upon you, but there are people in this world with different beliefs to you. I am one.

Deal with it, or declare a jihad on me...your choice.                    

[Kayode]

By the way...all this imps talk about burning at the stake etc...

If God is offended let God tell me and deal with me.

My idea of God is different to yours. I'm questioning the perception of God that you have. Not insulting. Simply questioning.

And your attitude towards that is burning at a stake.

And you wonder why Christianity is losing its power over society...like all other religions. It's that same pathetic attitude.

"If you don't agree with my idea of God, die."

"My brethren will gang up and kick your ass."

If that is what the crucifixion of Jesus taught you, you're insulting him more than I ever could. I never saw him raise a finger against the men who were beating him for his beliefs.

Yet you talking about burning at stake because I don't agree with yours. That is Christianity in action. You proved more in that one sentence than all my posts in this thread could.

The funny thing about Christianity and the Bible is that some other zealot can come to this thread, read a few different pages in the Bible, and find material to contradict almost everything you've posted.

So all that "research" yuh puttin down dey...it's all moot to me.

No partner. I'm not going to pray for forgiveness. I'm not going to read the Bible, and I'm not going to believe the things you believe. My beliefs will stay the same. Nothing you can say or do will change that.

Hard luck if it bothers you.

Luckily I doh have to answer to you. Or other God-fearing GATTers.


I have to answer to God.                    

[Rommel]

I agree with Kayode; sorry NEO
the truth is ultimately it was God's decision
and also the fact of the matter is that we as christians must question to find truth
as long as the questioning is without bias,
we will find the truth as He is truth and the God of truth

we must remember two things

one, as Kayode said, the bible is written by men (it is their hands that hold the pen)
men make mistakes as they are imperfect
you cannot think that everyone who says that they are under devine influence is telling the truth or is accurate of their assesment of the situstion
they may be simply mistaken in what really happened

two
one's own relationship with God is just that
one's own
it is said that even those who do not necessarily believe
may enter the kingdom if their lives were lived in truth
for by doing so their lives were lived according to his word
rember he gave us free will to decide ourselves what we will believe and who we will love and for why


I would say this,

religion is far more complex than some of the younger members would necessarily think

it is more than just reading the bible
that is a mistake
there is a difference that we must appreciate, between knowledge and wisdom
even the pope is merely a student

but for what it is worth
God be with us all
members of GATT                    

[SPK]

*looks on at disbelief at this thread*

Honestly, this is why i don't like to mess  around with religion, especially one such as Christianty, cuz you get people who start to be like this...

I take the movie for what it is : a MOVIE

And that the movie wasn't anything spectaular really.

*sits in a corner and starts chanting my mantra*                    

[Imperial_X]

And you wonder why Christianity is losing its power over society...like all other religions. It's that same pathetic attitude.

Your conversations in here are quite interesting, but I just want to say that it is a fact that more and more people are abandoning the Church and going back to God.                    

[Anonymous]

And you wonder why Christianity is losing its power over society...like all other religions. It's that same pathetic attitude.

Your conversations in here are quite interesting, but I just want to say that it is a fact that more and more people are abandoning the Church and going back to God.

i second dat imperial                    

[D_Rastaman]

ppl, Jesus came to die for us yes. We as christians should stand together, what Mel did was TRY to depict on film. all yuh forget he coming again or what and that mes ami is another topic am sure yall want to discuss.