THE GENERAL ALL-PURPOSE NARUTO THREAD

[Synchronomyst]

Shodai vs Madara was 1v1 just by the mere virtue that it was a fight over 'village policy'. It was a fight for leadership. I believe when they commented on the irony of the fight between naruto and sasuke at the valley of the end so many chapters ago alludes to that as well. Certainly Madara did not walk away from that fight but was probably just presumed dead.

[W1nTry]

Depending on the wording, the scan I read reffered as sync mentioned a difference of village policy and the first won LEADERSHIP, which does not allude necessarily to a big battle, but rather one that could be interpreted as POLICITAL as well. So sure maybe they did fight, however if all your supporters backing the next guy who are you going to command? it could be that the First AND madara were quite evenly matched, however the First's policies and ideas WON over Madara's and this was more popular and out went the opposition... just a thought.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

i'm inclined to believe Wintry's version , this is one of the drawbacks of scanlated manga.

Even if Madara and Shodai didn't go all out, the level of a fight would have changed the landscape, left some craters etc.  perhaps CREATED the valley in the first place.

It would have been one of the greatest battles in Konoha history , and remembered as such.

Likely it was a matter of politics : Nobody would want to be lead by someone who could kill their brother for power , what if YOU stood in their way?  Shodai would have had better ideas and been admired as such.

[Exar_Kun]

That's just you guys trying to rationalize Madara's loss. Simple as that. Think about it for a minute. Is there any evidence to support what you're saying? Of course not. This ain't the U.N. Shodai and Madara fought over the direction the village would take, you think they was playing 'mercy' or something? The men was fighting full blow without a doubt.

And I dunno who thought Itachi was ever THE strongest. Maybe after he KO Kakashi one might think that, but his run from Jiraiya says otherwise. He's probably pretty high up atm since everybody dying but taking people from part 2 alone I'd say Madara, Pain, Jiraiya, Sasori and Kakuzu would have him pretty much beat.

And I don't think MS firing dozens of blasts is a possibility given what we've seen so far. Unless EMS gives you a discount when you want to use it. Itachi was shown to be completely burned out after using one Tsukuyomi and one Amaterasu. He stated bluntly that he couldn't use MS when he was fighting in the 30% clone. He doesn't have the chakra to be shooting like mad. The only men that could manage something like that is Kisame or Naruto. Of course maybe Madara have chakra like them, idk.

[Synchronomyst]

Likely it was a matter of politics : Nobody would want to be lead by someone who could kill their brother for power

Rain Village. Pain. Etc

Sure... he didn't kill his brother. He just killed a man, his family, his friends, his families friends and and his friends friends. And what is pain viewed as? A God. Again...the allusion to the aspect of history repeating itself with naruto and sasuke is what seals the deal here for me. But I can't say that your view is an impossibility.

[W1nTry]

Based on an early leak on the upcoming manga, it's still quite plausible that the loss was more political than physical (and I ain't no Uchiha or madara fan so that stuff about me trying to rationalize his loss has no bearing on MY opinion). The leak reads that Shodai and Madara were friends very akin to Naruto and Sasuke (which makes sense in the whole plot) I will post it here just so you can see what i'm reffering to and see how I can allude to the fight being both political and physical. If you read my previous post Exar you'll see I didn't say they didn't 'clash swords' however the idea of a political loss versus JUST a battle is what I am getting at. Either way here's the spoiler so far:

Itachi’s flashback

マダラと初代火影は戦闘に認識した、彼らは共同の理想を持っている。 その後マダラは一族の運命を認識する、マダラは邪念を生じた。
斑和出代火影在战斗中认识，他们有着共同的理想。之后斑意识到一族的命运，斑产生了邪念。
Madara and Shodaime knew each other in a war, they had the same idealism, but finally Madara realized the fate of his clan, and he started to become evil.

初代火影は苦しく諌止して、阻止することができません。兄の同じに親密な２人のよう、昔の友達、生死の相闘 。失敗のちに、数十年、マダラ皆は復讐にいて。
初代火影苦苦劝阻，还是没有阻止。和兄弟一样亲密的两人，昔日的好友，生死的相斗。失败之后，数十年斑都在 复仇。
Shodaime bitterly persuaded Madara but it didn’t work., the two brother-like relationship fellows, good friends, fought each other. After he lost, in 10years, Madara was planning for revenge.

イタチ「友情をみなす恨み、これはうちは一族の運命です、これは汚れた一族です」
鼬「把友情认为仇恨，这就是宇智波一族的命运，这就是肮脏的一族」
Itachi: taking friendship as hatred, that’s Uchiha’s fate, that dirty clan

イタチ「仮に私はあなたの両眼を奪い取、あなたはすぐに苦痛を経歴する、あなたとナルト、マダラと初代火影と同様です。私を殺したの後、あなたはすぐにどんな道を行くか？あなたの生存の意義は復讐することです、だから私を殺したの後、なかった生存の意義であるあなた、うちは一族の邪にあなたの体が現にいる」
鼬「即使我不夺取你双眼，你也将经历痛苦，你和鸣人就像斑和初代火影。你杀了我之后，你将走什么道路？你的 生存意义在于复仇，所以杀了我之后，没有生存意义的你，宇智波一族的邪恶在你身上体现。」
Itachi: Even though I didn’t take your both eyes, you will still live in pain, Naruto and you are just like Madara and Shodaime. After you kill me, what path are you gonna take?
Your existence is only for revenge, so after you kill me, your life is nothing, and the evil Uchiha hiding inside of you will occur.

サスケ「あれは以後の事です！」
佐助「那是以后的事！」
Sasuke: I’ll save it for later (That’s my problem)

イタチ「ナルトの友情、あなたはとっくに忘れた、ただし彼まだ兄になることを。戦闘のちに、初代火影はまだ マダラを寻していると同様です、友達を探索して同様です。あなたとマダラ同様の邪悪、これは変わることがで きない事実です。」
鼬「鸣人的友情，你忘记了，但他现在还把你看成兄弟。就像战斗之后，初代火影还寻找斑的下落，就像寻找朋友 一样。你和斑一样邪恶，这是无法改变的事实」
Itachi: You have forgotten your friendship with Naruto, while he still considers you as a brother. Even after the fight, Shodaime continued tracking Madara, as if searching a friend, You and Madara are both evil, this fact cannot be changed.

イタチ「あなたに目的が活きていなくて、邪にあなたが現にいる、あなたの昔の友達を傷害する。 」
鼬「让你没有目的活着，体现邪恶，伤害你的昔日朋友」
Itachi: Letting you live purposeless life, becoming evil and hurting your old friend

イタチ「及ばなくてあなたは瞳に私を与える サスケ！」
鼬「不如将你的眼睛给我，佐助！」
Itachi: You’d better give your eyes to me Sasuke…!

サスケ「……」
佐助「……」
Sasuke …….

終
The end

There is also a pic

This spoiler is not yet confirmed however with a pic and a pretty sound comparison to the Naruto-Sasuke relation, it fits well with the story. If Shodai was indeed his friend, he would not have killed Madara and considering Madara wouldn't likely have simply lossed and ran away like a b1tch i'd have to say in addition to losing a battle, he lost the political battle which is the far more important point.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/387/01/

low quality translation out on onemanga, looks like sasuke is now one eyed or this is just another feint .

[W1nTry]

Well... I have a theory... what IF.... Sasuke already possesses the Mangekyou Sharingan.. and Itachi get feint? O_O that would be blow mind... Itachi realizes it was a genjutsu  via Sasuke's now revealed Mangekyou and it is more powerful than his own. Sasuke proceeds to layeth the SMACK DOWN ON HIS CANDY ASS... it's just a thought... GG I sound like a sasuke fanboy *W1nTry bathes in rubbing alcohol*.... but it'd be cool though... it would be the biggest WTF moment in Naruto history...

[ProtoJoe]

I think sasuke does posses Mangekyou or atleast some sort of variant of it (kinda like kakashi) cause if I remember correctly he wasnt using normal three tome sharingan when he was 'inside' Naruto and manners the demon fox....Plus, they not gonna have a main character like sasuke go down like that....

[Exar_Kun]

I'll be glad if Itachi leaves him mangled. Time to take Mr. High and Mighty down a peg.

[rb]

[W1nTry]

We're in for another treat this week pplz!!! here are some spoilers XD

http://img172.imagevenue.com/loc837/th_76212_1_122_837lo.jpg
http://img211.imagevenue.com/loc360/th_76303_2_122_360lo.jpg
http://img20.imagevenue.com/loc1153/th_76304_3_122_1153lo.jpg
http://img177.imagevenue.com/loc214/th_76309_4_122_214lo.jpg
http://img148.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76310_5_122_976lo.jpg
http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc1048/th_76426_6_122_1048lo.jpg
http://img43.imagevenue.com/loc720/th_76438_10_122_720lo.jpg

And a spoiler translation:

片目を取られて呆然とするサスケェ
Sasuke's in a daze from having an eye taken

鼬「もう片方も貰うぞ」
Itachi: "One more eye left for me."

サスケェ、鼬から離れる。鼬、片目をしまう
Sasuke gets away from Itachi, sans one eye from Itachi

鼬「これが力の差だ、お前とオレの瞳力の差だ」
Itachi: "This is the difference in power between us. The difference in the power of our eyes."

鼬、サスケェの背後に回り羽交い絞め
Itachi has Sasuke's arms bound behind his back

ゼツ「案外早かったね。イタチの勝ちだ」
Zetsu: "Well, that was surprisingly quick. Itachi won."

右目を抉り出される刹那何か時間が止まったのか止まってないのか分からん描写
The moment the left eye is gouged out, there's some scene where we don't know if time has stopped or not

ゼツ「だって月読食らったんだよ。もう動けないんだからあとは好きに料理できるでしょ・・・あ れ？」
Zetsu: "Then again, he DID take that Tsukuyomi blast full-on. He won't be moving anymore, so I wonder if I can help myself to a nice little snack afterwa-....wait huh?"

サスケェの両目は無事
Sasuke's eyes are safe and sound

サスケェ「ハァハァ・・・（ﾆﾔｯ　言ったハズだ。アンタがその眼をいくら使おうがこの俺の憎しみで幻は現 実になると」
Sasuke: *huff* *huff* "I thought I told you. It doesn't matter how many times you use your eyes. Hatred will make my dream a reality."

鼬「その台詞、そのまま返しておこう。さっきの月読で己の眼がもがれる幻は見ただろう。ならばそれを現実に してやる」
Itachi: "I'll say the same thing back at you. You saw for yourself the illusion of your eyes submerged through that Tsukuyomi. Now I'll make it a reality."

ゼツ「鼬の醸す空気が変わった！本気になったようだ・・・あの天照が見れるかもしれんぞ
　　　え！天照を！？そりゃ楽しみだ、やっぱこっち来て正解だった！！」
Zetsu: "Itachi's mood has changed! Looks like he's taking it serious. May even be able to see that Amaterasu of his."
"Huh!? See Amaterasu! Ooh, can't wait to see that! I knew coming here was the right thing!"

鼬、印を結ぶポーズでおわし
It ends with Itachi forming seals

[Exar_Kun]

I'm probably the only person who was disappointed in this week's chaprer. I really thought we'd have gotten a new twist, a new way for Sasuke to go when he lost his eye
Instead we get the same old "lol im stronger than you thought, i win again"

So instead of reinventing the character we get the same fanboy treatment as always. Of course it ain't over till it's over but that's how it seems to be shaping up.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

but we learned something interesting : Sharingan probably isn't irresistable as we'v previously thought , a strong ninja with no sharingan might be able to resist it ie. shodai hokage.

[Exar_Kun]

You mean how he beat tsukuyomi? We've known that since forever. Ever since Kakashi got dropped. Itachi said to beat tsukuyomi you needed Sharingan and the kekkei genkai. He never originally said anything about needing MS. At least as I recall.

So Sasuke has pretty much had the ability in him all along.

[UltimateGamer]

No fanboyism here

but sasuke is a genius ninja who trained under oro, and to think that he doesn't have the power needed to beat itachi's techniques will be silly.

He killed oro because he had nothing else to learn from him. Given that oro was weak at the time is trivial.The whole point is for him to learn from oro and not need him anymore should give you an idea of his power. And after that he kicked deidera's a$$.

So for me the twist is simple. Itachi says you need hate, sasuke got hate, sasuke kicks his a$$. After a good fight of course. This battle was in the making since episode 2 of naruto so, you know, its gotta be.

[Exar_Kun]

I think you're forgetting that Itachi is a genius too, who has far more experience and was trained by Madara.

But my dislike at this point isn't for Sasuke winning, it's for the incredibly lame storytelling we're getting. Just when they dangled an interesting twist, an experience that might humanize his character, it gets pulled away. "Lol I'll never scar my precious Sasuke".
After seeing this the whole Amaterasu build up seems pointless. Because we know Sasuke will make it look like a Genin move now with a triumphant "ha HA!"

Here's hoping it ends quickly and we get back to some interesting characters. The sooner we get to Kisame v Suigetsu the better as far as I'm concerned.

[UltimateGamer]

I didn't forget I just think oro is the G, lol.

I get what you are saying and agree with it, but it might be fair to say since itachi got those eyes, that is the techniques that he was practicing, and more than likely that is what madara focused on with him. I'm not saying he doesn't have the rest down but almost every encounter with itachi is mangekyo sharingan. But sasuke focused on just about everything else, so it is fair for us to conclude that in addition to all his training, his kekei genkai makes him more powerful than itachi because he is almost immune to itachi's technique.

When you look at it from my POV, it doesn't seem too bad

[W1nTry]

I was not disappointed with the latest chapter, in fact I am still waiting for sasuke to pull out his MS and drop the bomb of Itachi. Now as far as being able to combat the tsukwhateveritspealt, if appears to me that sasuke used something very similar to when he defeated Oro, also keep in mind that it is a GENJUTSU he was fighting, according to Jaraiya, to defeat a genjutsu, you must use your own chakra to regulate ur flow as that is what a genjutsu does, it uses the opponents chakra to distort the flow of urs, sasuke called forth the Lvl 2 seal, which radically increases his chakra. So if I had to guess, sasuke overpowered the MS genjutsu, in a similar way he over powered Oro in his mind using the lvl2 seal. I am no sasuke fanboy, but its good to see Itachi being showed up for once. I mean its about damn time anyways.

[Synchronomyst]

I think you're forgetting that Itachi is a genius too, who has far more experience and was trained by Madara.

Doubt it. I'm pretty certain Madara is just a moral mentor than anything else. Madara seems like an egocentric jackass. You know...like Itachi. And as much as Itachi is a genius Sasuke has had much more motivation to train eclipse his brother, whereas Itachi, despite being a genius abuses the ever-loving s**t out of his eyes. I actually believe that Kishimoto wanted to have him lose an eye...but remember, he has publishers to answer to.