Superman or Batman

[Synchronomyst]

"I like Batman and all but out of all the superheroes and both Marvel and DC he is the most unrealistic."




...Batman is the most unrealistic because he LACKS super powers. What the...?

[Crixx_Creww]

batman is the most realistic because he lacks super powers

i whole heartedly concur.

The others have powers as their explanations for their feats. we accept that they can do things within parameters of their powers.

their are people SMARTER than batman ANDDD have meta human abilities, such as the atom, who still dont come up with impossible solutions to impossible situations with human weaknesses and limitations.


I think its totally ridiculous for people to look at what batman does with no metahuman abilities at all.

Hes a human with seemingly unlimited resources who always just HAPPENS to come across the solution to every problem imagineable and THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC ?? and we are supposed to identify with it??? comeee on!!! WTF!!

Batman is just as unrealistic as superman is, but atleast superman is a great role model.


And those people who downplay superman's intelligence, and are trying to compare him to a savage hulk or ben grim, obviously do not read superman and know nothing about what he is really like.

I wont get into a big war, but superman has saved the world with his intellect when strength and indominable will alone could not win.

[New Era Outlaw]

......hm. Maybe this is just me being stupid here, but did you guys forget that Batman's a multi-millionaire, hence the reason why he has so much resources? Yeesh.


And Crixx, there is another example of a human in a work of fiction that solves anything you can throw at him, and nobody considers it unrealistic or far-fetched at all. His name is Sherlock Holmes.

So, just because Batman can do the same, doesn't make it any less realistic. Heck, with all of those gadgets, he can probably surpass what Holmes could have accomplished.

However, just a one up for the Superman side, now.
For everybody who says that Superman does nothing but "SMASH! BASH! SUPERMAN MAD! BLEAAARGH!!!" , you are dead wrong. Go pick up some comic books and read up on Superman, because anybody who thinks that way obviously hasn't watched enough past the commercials on TV or the covers on his comics. Superman is smart, and doesn't always use brute force to solve his problems. Up to the very first comic where he saves a train by using his back to substitute as rails while holding the broken tracks together should tell you that Superman uses his upstairs every once in a while, and probably on the fly, as well.



Seriously, some of you should pick up a comic book, cause DAMN.

[AIDS]

Personally i agree that Superman has WAAAAAAAAAY too many powers and i think Batman would beat Superman in a fight by making a kryptonite suit (actually I think I heard about that one happening already). Even if Superman does come up with an original way to battle the dark night Batman is more accustomed to flexing his mental muscles so he should still come out on top.

As a sidenote: I think the people of Metropolis on the whole are all way too stupid cause they are conpletely fooled by a guy putting on a pair of glasses and combing his hair in the other direction. If Superman had to face the inteligent villans of Gotham I think he would have had his a$$ handed to him a lot more.

[vivman1107]

Just to add another point: I would guess that criminals really get affected more by being caught by Batman than Superman. The whole bat costume/aura can really spook someone (see Batman Begins) as opposed to Superman's all-American style. Batman uses it to really good effect too and has always kept that as a key component of his success at least with normal criminals.

[Synchronomyst]

People speak of Batman not possessing metahuman abilities but yet still maintaining expansive intelligence...and you fail to take into account the bevy of other heroes and villains who are also like that. Did you even forget superman's arch-nemesis, Lex Luthor? Lex seems to have no reason to be as smart he is but I don't see you, or any one of batman's detractors for that matter noting such a thing. Hell...one could consider Bruce Lex's antithesis far more the Superman. A man who has the riches, wealth, intelligence and charisma to spread a cancerous influence all over the world but he chooses not to. Hell, there are all sorts of things wrong with that train of thought. Example, Ray Palmer's (Atom's) intelligence is completely independent of his metahuman abilities. He was a genius before he gained his powers and it has done nothing but to allow him apply his already established genius in realms others cannot due to physical limitation. One cannot even consider him to be the most unrealistic in terms of natural intelligence in the Marvel and DC worlds. Why? Because Reed Richards and Dr. Doom exist. Reed Richards IQ was the same before and after the accident and you know what?


Mr. Fantastic would f**king ruin Batman's s**t in a match of intelligence. Hard

And everyone knows it. In the time it takes batman to have one plan...Reed would have 20.  Don't let me get started on Ozymandias.

...but that's not the point. Look, Batman's abilities are defined by three things; his dedication to justice, his disillusioned desperation to avenge the death of his parents and lastly his natural intelligence. Each of which work in tandem to continually increase his potential. If Batman were to be anyone else he wouldn't be as intelligent, no?

That's the thing. We all have events in our lives that define us. That make us who we are today. That's simply the case with batman...and within a comic book universe...this is no way outside of the sphere of belivability. When you begin to see the words of physics/logic professors these days and you realise that this will eventually be common knowledge, I begin to think that eventually not even in real life will some of these things be unrealistic. In fact, they will be blase. Since the comic world is more advanced than hours, Batman is a suitable avatar for this. Hell, Batman has even been regailed by Superman for his creativity. If anything...Batman is the one who symbolizes the peak of true human potential. Not Superman. Superman would represent the personficiation of ultimate human fantasy while still retaining the qualities of those who are truly good i.e. having the power to do evil and still chosing right from wrong. However, it makes no sense to me that people would assert that because of batman's humanity that he should be impotent in a fictional universe filled with tools available to his disposal.mI suppose what I'm trying to drive home


"I think its totally ridiculous for people to look at what batman does with no metahuman abilities at all."



2// This is also the mentality you get from reading too much Superman and other seeming indestructable Superheroes. That humans are weak and possess limitation and need something that crosses into the metaphysical to explain their strength...their worth. Some cosmic or chemical occurence to augment their potential. The thing is...it has been emphasized in thousands of fictional works, even outside of comic books and anime, that despite physical limitations that there is no limit to the human mind and to the human spirit. That with enough drive, and enough imagination...nothing is impossible. We live in that world. Things we thought were impossible have been done strictly out of ingenuity and perseverence. Just remember...this form of communication was once just fantasy. I've pointed out...there are other significant heroes and villans whose metahuman abilities have no bearing whatsoever and their capabilities. Why does what Batman does make him less believable than any one of them? That's absurd. Seriously.

One should not be inhibited to revel in ones own fantasy but one should also not be underwhelmed by one's own humanity. That's my take on it.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

And everyone knows it. In the time it takes batman to have one plan...Reed would have 20.  Don't let me get started on Ozymandias.

...

 The watchmen was the most realistic rendition of 'super heroes' to date imo , anyone who runs around in a suit with his underwear outside , fighting crime , has serious issues as the novel showed.  We need more comics like that ,that would show how superheroes are relavent to reality , and how we may be very well better off without them .

[Synchronomyst]

And everyone knows it. In the time it takes batman to have one plan...Reed would have 20.  Don't let me get started on Ozymandias.

...

 The watchmen was the most realistic rendition of 'super heroes' to date imo , anyone who runs around in a suit with his underwear outside , fighting crime , has serious issues as the novel showed.  We need more comics like that ,that would show how superheroes are relavent to reality , and how we may be very well better off without them .

Quoted For Truth.

[Crixx_Creww]

Personally i agree that Superman has WAAAAAAAAAY too many powers and i think Batman would beat Superman in a fight by making a kryptonite suit (actually I think I heard about that one happening already). Even if Superman does come up with an original way to battle the dark night Batman is more accustomed to flexing his mental muscles so he should still come out on top.

As a sidenote: I think the people of Metropolis on the whole are all way too stupid cause they are conpletely fooled by a guy putting on a pair of glasses and combing his hair in the other direction. If Superman had to face the inteligent villans of Gotham I think he would have had his a$$ handed to him a lot more.

You know nothing about superman if you still think its just glasses and combing his hair
AND superman has come to metropolis and fought batman's villains and kicked their @$$3$, they are villains, not supervillains. Thats why they are matched against batman.

IN an issue of batman comics, batman stated quite clearly that if he was to ever fight clark, all clark would have to do is come hard and fast and there would be nothing he could do to stop him.
THats from BATMAN'S own mouth. SO stop this ridiculous batman beating superman in a fight and not some random scheme rhetoric.

If anyone plans long enuff and hard enuff they could conceivably take out anyone.
Conversely, if superman thnks up a long elaborate scheme, backed by all his powers, do you think that there is anyone he couldnt defeat??? Pfft, i think not.

Sherlock holmes never fought and defeated myriad swarms of super powered villains from across the multiverses without powers.

Batman is a good detective, so is superman, but that doesnt make batman able to defeat everyone that comes after him.

Its moer unrealistic for a mere human, regardless of wealth, to just happen to have the exact needed device or gizmo to defeat a random meta human. Total nonsense.

Green arrow is super duper rich and talanted and an extremist but he cant defeat any and everyone.

Lex luthor is super duper rich, just like bruce, extremely brilliant, just like bruce, and he has the desire to always come out on top, but even that doesnt enable him to beat any and everyone with his gadgets and scheming.

I already mentioned the atom, who is leagues ahead of most people on the planet in terms of intelligence AND he has powers, but still is not an undefeatable demi god.

So with all these other people who are similiar,  even tony stark  in marvel yadda yadda.

WHy does batman able to do all the stuff he does???
CAUSE HESS UNNNREAAALISSTICCC ANDD THE WRITTTERSSSS MAKKKEEEEE HIMMMMM WINNNNNNNN!!
 duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Not that he SHOULD win in a situation, but cause the writers use deux ex machina to substitute reasoning and believablity of the character defeating a situation.

Almost all writers do it, so its not like iam saying that it doesnt happen with other characters
BUTTTTTTTTTTT ITS OVER ABUSED IN BATMAN!! ITS LIKE IF HIS SUPER POWER IS DEUX EX MACHINA!!!

[38_CalibuR]

IN an issue of batman comics, batman stated quite clearly that if he was to ever fight clark, all clark would have to do is come hard and fast and there would be nothing he could do to stop him.
THats from BATMAN'S own mouth.

batmans not real
wtf dude time to get back to reality lol

[New Era Outlaw]

Actually, Crixx, Deus Ex Machina more applies to Superman.
A common complaint with his comics is that he always develops some new superpower to fit the situation, only to forget he ever had it or have the writers retcon it out of existence later on.


And Crixx? Batman doesn't always win.
Remember Jason Todd?
And Stephanie Brown?
And Bane?
Geez, Crixx.....like I have to send you to a comic book store to read a few issues, too.

And I was comparing Sherlock Holmes for his detective skills, geez. Anyone with half a brain could see that.


Wait....as I recall, the Joker came VERY close to killing Superman. It's not really 'PWNAGE' when a common man with a mental problem can say he bested Superman.


And now, some quotes from Superman's Wikipedia article, which somewhat proves that even DC, sometimes, thinks the Man of Steel can be unbelievable:

" Writers found it increasingly difficult to write Superman stories in which the character was believably challenged, so DC Comics made a series of attempts to rein the character in."

"Superman's abilities have occasionally been removed or altered for dramatic reasons."

"In an interview with Joe Casey on Alvaro's ComicBoards, he states that Superman can re-arrange the Solar System and tear a star apart. "I've always seen Superman as this completely over-the-top, fantastic character who has no limits whatsoever," writes Casey. Unencumbered by mental blocks, "Superman is unbeatable.""

Unbelievable is more like it.

[EmpireKing]

the thing is superman is much much faster than batman........If superman is really angry i sure he cud take out batman in one blow.........If batman had ah kryptonite suit all superman hadda does is fight from a distance wit laser eye thing an ice breath

[Synchronomyst]

"Its moer unrealistic for a mere human, regardless of wealth, to just happen to have the exact needed device or gizmo to defeat a random meta human. Total nonsense."

Do you...still live in the 50's? Batman hasn't had the Utility Belt syndrome in years. He uses his ingenuity to either create what he has to after having his ass handed to him or he leagues himself with the appropriate hero to take on the threat. Do you really read Batman? Seriously. Batman gets f**ked up on the regular.


I already mentioned the atom, who is leagues ahead of most people on the planet in terms of intelligence AND he has powers, but still is not an undefeatable demi god.

Yeah.  Erm. Atom's power's are really not conducive to any sort of Super-heroism. "Look! Oh s**t! Darkseid is coming! *shrinks* And the world...is SAVED!"...hrm. I guess not, eh? I guess citing the fact that the Atom has powers is irrelevant to anything at hand in this conversation seeing as he spends most of his time tailoring his power to research rather than crime fighting, eh? Why, look at that...! I don't see why is it so hard to get that because of what Batman does he has in natural proclivity and intelligence? It is the application of knowledge that makes a person smart... and in Batman's case, it is his drive to apply this knowledge that what makes Batman what he is. I've explained this.


"WHy does batman able to do all the stuff he does???
CAUSE HESS UNNNREAAALISSTICCC ANDD THE WRITTTERSSSS MAKKKEEEEE HIMMMMM WINNNNNNNN!!
 duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

You want to complain about Deus Ex Machina...but you're a Superman fan? Wait, wait, wait... you...want to complain about the use of Deus Ex Machina....but you read comics? You can't complain about that literary device is you read any sort of comic whatsoever. Far less for the notion that Batman always wins via deus ex machina. Batman hasn't been winning frquent battles via deus ex machina since -before- the same perod of time in which Superman has. In fact, it is SUPERMAN rather than Batman who is constantly under under fire for the usage of that literary device ad nauseum, because, in the widely accepted view of comic book critics and fans alike, few comic writers can write an interesting Superman one-shot or arc without putting him in impossible situation. Why? Because he can do anything. His very nature is that of DEM. His humble origins are DEM. To imply that Batman is and has been and escaped in more impossible situations than Superman, (ignoring the fact that Superman's most familiar super powers were fleshed out by directly that means in a comic-to-comic basis...to the point where Superman originally didn't even FLY until they decided that he could fly and juggle planets and all that f**ing ridiculous nonsense) you're just displaying that either you know just as much about Batman as those who claim that Superman is just a brute or you're being clearly disingenuous. Hell...half of DC's 'Crisis of the Infinite Earths' saga was spent finding reasons to make Superman weaker. Take that "writers make him win" s**t elsewhere. That describes every  major comic book character.

Why is Batman able to do the things he does? You say it's because the writers make him win? Who else would make him win? It's a comic book.


"Lex luthor is super duper rich, just like bruce, extremely brilliant, just like bruce, and he has the desire to always come out on top, but even that doesnt enable him to beat any and everyone with his gadgets and scheming."

Bull****. The only person he never beats is Superman which, again, is usually via Deus ex Machina. There is no one else that can possibly stand in Luthor's way and this has been stated time innumerable...although they've also said that Luthor would actually be a contributing memeber to society if Superman did exist....so whatever. The only reason Luthor never wins is because it's a DC comic and he's a villiain. Nothing more and nothing less. You're either in denial or being hypocritical if you don' think that this is utter nonsense. The fact that Luthor -never- beats Superman despite having the most flawless of plans is far more unrealistic than anything else when it has been stated that Luthor is 2 classes lower intellect than Braniac. Hell...braniac is a perpetual deus ex machina villain in itself. Damn...do you mean to say that even Superman's villains have to employ the power of deus ex machina in their side to prove remotely interesting? And the thing is despite the fact that he potentially out classes superman in every single way...he still loses.

Utter. F**king. Nonsense.


"Almost all writers do it, so its not like iam saying that it doesnt happen with other characters
BUTTTTTTTTTTT ITS OVER ABUSED IN BATMAN!! ITS LIKE IF HIS SUPER POWER IS DEUX EX MACHINA!!!"

You must be confusing Batman with Dark Yugi.

[Synchronomyst]

Completely off topic:


It's really ironic that according to DC writers, that both the Joker and Lex Luthor would not exist in villainous capacities both Superman and Batman did not exist.

[New Era Outlaw]

Synchro wins this thread. Serious PWNAGE with logic, there.

[Synchronomyst]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KPBsG0A7k0o

Heh...hehehehe....

[Qloxx]

I'll chose Batman every time because the man gets his @$$ kicked and goes to his parties in an Armani suit doh mind he all bandeged up underneath and superman for a man who faster than a speeding bullet
he dont ever seem to dodge i understand if he protecting someone but even all alone he does still head in a straight line come on man a little bob and weave could save you some hurt.

[Crixx_Creww]

why bob and weave when your invulnerable??

do yu see tanks trying to dodge hits they know they can take??

pfft you know damn well that he takes the hits cause he can, so stop acting like he doesnt know any better. ALL TANKS TAKE HITS THEY KNOW THEY CAN TAKE!! IF NOT, THEN WTF IS THE POINT OF BEING A TANK!!!

thats like an agil hero deciding he will not dodge even though he can just for the hell of it

agil heroes dodge and tanks TAKE HITS!! so quit whining.

[New Era Outlaw]

Good point. You hardly think about dodging when a Sherman tank doesn't do as much as scratch you.

But that problem hardly exists for Superman alone. Watch any movie or video game or TV show where somebody's running away from something, and, 99.9% of the time, they always run away or fly in a straight line. 50% of the time, they end up getting caught or hit by what they were running away from, simply because they don't practice 'dodge and weave'.

The only exception I ever saw was 8-Ball from Grand Theft Auto 3, when they blew up the ferry and he was bobbing and weaving like mad. Now, he's a smart one.

Anyhoo, I digress.

*pulls out chalk and marks one under Superman's name*

[Red Paradox]

The only exception I ever saw was 8-Ball from Grand Theft Auto 3, when they blew up the ferry and he was bobbing and weaving like mad. Now, he's a smart one.
 

LOL
I remember that.
Unfortunately I also remember the point when I accidently shot him with a sniper rifle. It was hilarious and sad simuntaneously (sad because I had to play the level over again....