Street Fighter games (and related) Challenge

[Ultima]

... Interesting choices. I play Guy and Gen a little myself.

[New Era Outlaw]

I play a little Street Fighter Alpha 3 myself. I mainly use the Shotos, but I'm thinking of branching out with Rolento. He should be fun.

[Ultima]

X-Rolento is all about IN YOUR FACE. Also, s.LPxN to annoy your opponent. He's awesome.

I forgot I can play X-Dhalsim as well. And if I REALLY want to go mindless, I'd go with X-Chun *shudders*

I can play most of the characters in A3 to an extent, except the shotos.

[Ultima]

I went by St.James yesterday, and was pleased to see they have arcade Hyper SF2 and Samurai Shodown 0 Special! I only played HSF for the most part because I didn't notice SS0S until I was about ready to leave, but I'm definitely going to have to give that sucker a try. Amakusa and Suija FTW.

Damn those SF2 guys are too good; they even managed to beat my CE Bison. Daryl (aka "TSTT Guy") is just waaaaaaay too good. He beat me down with Dhalsim and CE Vega (who isn't quite as stupid as CE Bison). To tell you how good Daryl is, within the space of a couple rounds, he took away my primary weapon (Hit/blocked Scissors Kick), and beat me in a match up that Bison usually wins handily. If he played in the US, he'd be a world class player, no doubt.

[TriniXaeno]

What time was this? I was in the vicinity yesterday
Would definitely want to see some world class street fighter action in the flesh.

[Q]

I've never seen a SF2 fight from the US and I'm pretty much a non-entity in it but from what I've seen, our SF2 players are pretty good. If the TSTT fighter is a tall, dark-skinned guy, I know who he is. He also has a WICKED V-ism Cody in SFZ3.

[Ultima]

Noob:

5:00 to 6:30 PM yesterday. It's leftovers from Colsort Mall. I stopped paying much attention after somebody started playing with Akuma.

Q:

Among all fighting games, I think our Sf2 guys are the closest to the level of US/Japan. Especially at HF. Hell, they would win tournaments at HF right now, since our guy never stopped playing. US players would be have to spend time trying to remember "Crap, how do I deal with this again?". :p

They would likely get hosed by the best players in Super Turbo though. They still play that quite a bit in the US. And don't talk about Japan. We would get crushed because nobody here is used to fighting exceptionally good Chun-lis, Balrogs or Dee Jays. Not to mention out players STILL have a problem with "kick and throw", which the US/JPN guys have perfected and know how to use and avoid. Why are we still stuck with this backwards mentality? *sigh*

Come to think of it, I need to start doing that more with Bison, since s.LK -> Throw is a "combo".

I'm trying to remember... I know Daryl plays V-Cody in A3, but I can't remember how good it actually was when I fought him last. I believe I used to beat him with my X-Rolento. However, that was years ago and this is Daryl, so no doubt he's improved since then. I remember his V-Vega was better than mine, annoyingly enough. >:|

[Q]

True... This was years ago in Knight Raiders on Charlotte St but that was the first time (besides the internet) I saw how dangerous V-ism can be. What makes it worse is that he's very good with that KOF-style dodge that Cody has, high and low.

The only X-ism Rolento I ever fought was a guy named Barry. He was okay but I beat him with my Dan twice in a row so that pretty much killed the thrill for me. Still, X Rolento is a tough nut to crack.

I'm a shoto fan but everybody tends to abuse them so I decided to use what me and mine call the "unorthodox" players i.e. no projectiles/obvious anti-air moves, hence my choices. Dan is the closest to a shoto that I use in SFZ3.

[Ultima]

I've never seen anyone else play Rolento in A3 here.

V-Cody's not even that dangerous, relatively. Even if Daryl makes him seem good, he's merely okay. NOwhere near as dangerous as, say, V-Ryu, V-GIef, or *shudder* V-Sakura and V-Akuma.

Then you get into crouch-cancel infinites, in which a whole number of additional characters (V-Vega, V-Sagat) get stupid as well. Well, V-Vega was the first V-character that got noticed (and Daryl plays him too, as do I [not very well], though last I checked, he plays the old V-Vega that uses confusion VCs that nobody good falls for anymore, and not the newer superior "Run like a bitch for 50 seconds, VC, repeat" V-Vega), but V-Sagat wasn't found until years later.

[Q]

Good Lord... I wasn't even talking about the infinites. Those are insane. What I've seen him do is the Tornado multiple times to crack your guard. That's the offensive tactic that stood out the most for me at the time. Defense wise, he's really good with that dodge and Cody has decent priority over some of the non-shoto chars (or at least mine) so he "corks" a lot of my moves and hits.

The V-ism confusion technique is one that I've seen ppl try with Blanka as well. Never seen a V Sagat.

[New Era Outlaw]

Just out of curiousity....what is the tier listing for this game?
I'm curious to see which characters are considered to be tops in this game.

[rb]

IIRC its was something like

Top - Dhalsim (A/V), V-Akuma, V-Ryu, V-Gief, V-Sakura  (now that I watch this I realize @ my peak I used to play all of these characters)

2nd - V-Charlie, V-Karin,V-Sodom, V-Cody , A-Guy, A-Gen, V/A Rolento were just below top.

[Ultima]

From memory:

1: V-Akuma, V-Sakura, V-Gief, Dhalsim (A/V/X), V-Ryu
2: V-Karin, V-Sodom, V-Vega, A/X/V-Rolento, V-Cody, V/A-Charlie, V-Sagat, A-Guy, A/X-Chun
3: A-Gen, A-Balrog, V-Mika, A/X-Rose, A/X-Adon, V/A-Cammy,
4: A-Blanka,  V-Ken, V-Juni, A-M.Bison, V-Juli, V-Honda
5: V-Dan, Birdie

Any version not mentioned is generally not worth using and not ranked.

The top and botton are pretty set in stone at this point. Tier 2 is fairly set as well, though some characters may be a bit higher or lower than last I checked (e.g. V-Rolento is a gimmick character who's not that good compared to A or X, his gimmick is very good if you can land it). Tiers 3 and 4 are a bit more open to debate (A-Gen, a character I play, while usually ranked in tier 2, I find to be highly overrated), though I think that's correct.

[Q]

Dunno about Gen... I generally only use the Mantis style (3P) but I know someone who uses the Crane (3K). I have a combo that switches the styles in between but to say I actively use both styles... Nah. Maybe that's why he's so low ranked. In X-ism they combine the two and take from his versatility and I've never seen anything good for him in V-ism.

Now that I look back at the list, only A-ism is ranked anyway so I guess my assessment wasn't that badly off. I saw an infinite once with his uppercut in A-ism but that was a long time ago.

If someone took the time to master (Not learn - master) both styles, I wonder if that would do something for his ranking? He's the only Capcom/SF player I can recall right now that has more than one style to choose from during a match, not counting Optimus Ryu from MvC. Surely he's more dangerous than Tier 3... 

[New Era Outlaw]

Fascinating. Looks like I wasn't too far off when I assumed that Akuma was a high tier in this game. Lots of juggles.

[Ultima]

Q:

If you aren't playing Gen in both styles, then you aren't using Gen. Period. I play in both styles and switch regularly, according to the situation (though KKK style is better overall). As I said, he's usually ranked in Tier 2 and is seen as one of the better characters in the game, but he has some trouble with turtles and can't get around V-rubbish.

Gen has no uppercut infinite. He can repeat it a few times in combos, but it's not an infinite.

The other versions of Gen are awful. He has not good VCs, and X-ISM got toned down from the beta version (where he still had chains; as with V-COdy, X-ken and X-Honda, Beta X-Gen was a monster), so there's no point in playing him.

NEO:

If not for V, Akuma would still be high, but nowhere near as powerful as V, who can kill you for jumping in once.

[Q]

I prefer the Mantis (3P) but I am acquainted with the Crane (3K), which is why I find it strange that you say he has trouble against turtles. I find combos and offense to be easier with the Mantis but, although I haven't studied the Crane in depth, I know at least that Standing 2 cracks crouching defense and Standing 3 cracks standing defense. You could use his roll to get close and just crack that turtle shell accordingly (unless they smell the rat and start to do the "Carl Lewis" i.e. RUN).

If it's a shoto turtle, well, that would be even harder. Sit down all day and when you try to get close... SHORYU KEN!!!

Now, I don't mean players with good defense who can consciously block. I mean the ones who immediately decide to buy a house in the corner of the screen and have NO offensive reflex whatsoever. They would gladly spend all 99 seconds there and wouldn't bother to move as long as they think they can hold out. Those are whom I consider turtles.

Consider yourself fortunate if you've never come across that kind of opponent. THEY SUCK!!!


As far as "V-rubbish" goes, I just try to play a distance game depending on the V-char. If it's a char that I consider VERY dangerous in V mode, well, you can't start that crap if you can't get in close.


EDIT: Don't double post. Thank you.

[rb]

lol @ they suck, wait til you see a true runaway Storm player.

[Ultima]

Q:

I don't know anyone who hardcore turtles like Guile and Dhalsim in old SF2 anymore. It's not really that effective in the long run. Most turtling now is of the offensive variety: Think of a moving tank. It moves forward, but it never takes risks or puts itself at a disadvantage, usually only counterattacking with safe pokes. It's a very strong, very annoying style to fight against if you aren't adept at it.

Gen, though vastly improved from A2, has trouble against this of character. He can't inflict a lot of damage without actually hitting his opponent, and some characters will just not give Gen a chance to actually hit them. KKK s.MP and s.HP (BLAH at number notation; get that KI/Tekken crap out of here!) can go through someone who's just sitting on their ass, but the damage is minimal, and not enough to encourage someone to not just block all the time.

Of course, his main weakness is getting crushed by VCs, but that's not a problem with him per se, since everyone has problems with that.

Now, on the other hand, there are players/characters who RUN like crazy. Don't know this as some skill-less style, cause it's not. It takes tremendous concentration and patience to play that way, though of course it's easier in some games than in others. Eddie Lee, the best SFA3 player on the East Coast, was a master of this with V-Vega. I saw him win against 4 players in a row (best 2 out of 3 each, so we're talking about  8 rounds minimum) by timeout at ECC4 in 1999 (his strategy: VC for block damage, run away doing jump back HP, get 50% meter, VC for block damage, repeat). Man, were his opponents (West Coast guys, the natural enemy of the East Coast players) PISSED. It was both hilarious and awful.

re: V-rubbish

There are some characters you cant play a distance game with. V-Akuma can kill you from full screen. V-Karin and V-Gief can be very threatening from a distance as well. And what do you mean you can't start it in close? That's where most VCs start.

[rb]

with all this vc talk, i fired up alpha 3 last night to see just how bad i'd gotten...i can't even do akuma's basic anti air vc anymore, that had me so down i didnt even bother to try his unblockable vc, at this point I'd pick him just for that godly b+hk

...my sak is even worse