phear intel? conroe rips FX60 to shreds. then feeds shreds to intel's dogs

[TrinireturnofGamez]

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2713&p=2


   I think AMD is owned for another year at least.... pwned.. .. pwned... and... one more pwned for posterity ,
  only chance AMD has is  to drop prices   , overclock like hell and hand out watercooled heatsinks  , i can't see AM2 increasing performance by more than 15% .

[W1nTry]

Dread trini have NO faith or loyalty. Whilst I do tip my hat to Intel for nothing short of a blow mind leap in their performance, it's still too early to just drop your support for AMD and say it's over. Daz Trini fuh yuh mcmcmc. Anyways, the way I see it is that AMD will pwnz intel on the memory side, but intel seems to have drasctically improved its FPU, ALU and vector processor (sse, sseII, etc) performance which was I guess overdue for an overhaul. I also agree that I can't see AMD gaining that much performance with AM2 but then we don't know what they've been up to since it's all been pretty quiet. I am sure some alarms are going off in Hector Ruiz's office all now since those benchies showed up. AMD still wtfpwnz server performance, but I am sure a server version is in the pipe and not far from fruition knowing intel. I tip my hat and look to AMD to see how they are going to respond to intels' VERY strong challenge. The only way I see this happening contrary to Trinithemc's suggestion is a revision of their FPU and ALU for optimizations, HT3 for memory (although this is next year with quad cores) drop to 65nm tech ASAP (to match intel's power consumption) and lastly work VERY closesly with its chipset manufacturers to squeeze EVERY drop of performance outta the platform as a whole. The next few months could be interesting... maybe even a possible Barton vs. Northwood all over again. Let's see how long it take crixx to go buck wild and spew a whole bunch of useless intel rubbish into the forum. I will point out not hwoever that this chip is due in a few months so they coudl well increase in performance, but then so coudl AMD. Until that time regardless of wanton rants I want to see crixx post something worthy of a response to my post, where credit is given where credit is DUE.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

  i predicted this would happen.. wintry even if AMD can match conroe's performance per clock Intel can still clock it at 3.3 ghz or more ! PLUS sell them cheaper  The pipeline is 2 stages longer than an AMD and its on a better process ,  only hope for AMD lies in 65nm or smaller process and really pumping up their performance per clock....
    I have faith that AMD may release  truly competative processors eventually , but not this year...
   
  There is the odd chance intel  thew in a few optimizations  in the test rig which is likely ,  they need to restore customer and investor confidence ...

[W1nTry]

Another review

[Crixx_Creww]

FLIKKIN INTEL!! STEUPSSSSS FORRRRKKK!!!
Sorry i took so long to post steups, i was in ah game ah dota dere an i just get omgwtf owned by a conroe chip.
MC ting just decide to sweat some dota an pwn unworthy peons such as me.

And then to make it worse, on the way from tech, back to work, i get MUGGED!!
2 flikkin conroes jump out ah ally an beat de hell outta meh an take meh clarks yes, steupsss...












LOL LOL LOL sorry couldnt resist.
ahahahhh

When i saw the thread, i wasnt surprised in the least, intel owning amd, wow, what big news 

But when i saw the bench marks... iam like ... wtf??? when de ass that happen???
 waiting on the release ofANd my spleen started to cry...*there there spleen, its ok, conroe promises to be a fair and just ruler*

I admittedly was caught wellll off guard with this info, been looking at the merlin so much, barely thought bout the onslaught of conroe.

My spew is not intel rubbish winny old boy, its more like the gospel as presented by intel.

Ill have more to say when i feel i can look directly @ some intel white papers with out burning my retinas out.. the glorious light of intel is just.... just... *sigh* *single tear runs down face*

[Czar]

LOL!

You gotta give crix props for bringing a certain flair into talkin up intel

Regarding the topic at hand tho...the numbers are nothing short of amazing imo....this coming from someone who converted to AMD for years now...finally an Intel chip worthy of its silicon...those Isreal boys put down some serious magic to create Conroe...job well done.

[Kaizen]

intel ownz j00!! ...i guess

* Kaizen munches on some crix and jam

[TrinireturnofGamez]

     someone made speculation that intel may have used a slightly doctered system for AMD...  if its true we'll see in a few months...   
 

First of all, though it’s claimed that you’re running an FX-60 processor on the machine, I have yet to see an established motherboard and processor with an image that says "processor unknown".

You’ll notice that the image I am referring to on Anandtech's website (the bios image) states that the AMD processor is “unknown” which makes me believe that the bios they are running is outdated. So, I did a bit of digging and low and behold, the DFI bios version “D49C-32” they are running is from 10/11/05. There has been 1 major revision with major fixes that include:

Set Cool 'n' Quiet Default to Disabled

- With Cool & Quiet enabled, AMD processors will throttle in order to save power and bring their thermal load down. This means the processor could be running as low as 800MHz in certain programs – no matter what the program is. In theory Cool & Quiet is supposed to throttle up to maximum in games but this is not always the case. No enthusiast PC goes out with Cool & Quiet enabled unless it’s a fanless machine or media center.

Add Support for AMD Athlon 64 FX60 CPU

- According to DFI the FX-60 will not operate correctly without this bios update. Without official support for the FX-60 CPU I’m not sure what we’re comparing against here.

Fix Memory Timings 2-1-1-1-1 and 4-1-1 Mode Wrong & Fix Read Preamble Table Error.

- Memory latency can make a massive difference in performance. If the latency was not running at the correct latency we can see a pretty big difference in all kinds of performance. Anandtech stated “The AMD system used 1GB of DDR400 running at 2-2-2/1T timings…” Apparently this isn’t the case, but they would not be able to tell without having the platform in house.

Fix Fill 3114 SVID&SSID under Cross fire mode.
- More apparent performance issues under Crossfire mode.

Next, when you take a future Intel chipset and compare it to a chipset that no enthusiast supports (RD480) with an outdated bios it’s like taking a Ferrari and putting it on Bias-Ply tires. It’s just not a good way to show off a “new” technology.

Had Intel taken an RD580 (Crossfire Xpress 3200) and coupled with the AMD Athlon FX-60 processor they almost certainly would have seen some better numbers just based on the bios issues alone. The ATi Xpress 3200 would have improved the overclocking and decoding performance as well. You don’t need a time machine to jump over to the nearest Newegg and buy the latest parts. It’s almost like Intel took their time machine 6 months ahead while throwing AMD into a time warp set a few months back in time.

 

 though amd processors normally turn into '' unknown processors'' when clock speeds reach high out of spec... my Athlon XP mobile only detects as a mobile under 1.4ghz clock .

 Some more confirmation ,  Bit Tech did a benchmark with their FX60   vs conroe and  Intel's  AMD machine, the bit tech rig beat it by  slight margin..........  If intel is really  playing with the benchmarks they may have optimizations on the Conroe machine in addition to slightly crippling the AMD rig... we'll see soon enough if this is all hot air .

 

As far as we could tell, there was nothing fishy going on with the benchmarks or the install. Both systems were clean and used the latest versions of all of the drivers (the ATI graphics driver was modified to recognize the Conroe CPU but that driver was loaded on both AMD and Intel systems).

the driver could also have been modified to benefit the Conroe in various ways....   

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/08/intel_conroe_benchmark_fear/

[SPK]

Best bet, wait till commercial versions of Conroe are released, and then we'll see who comes out on top...there is always the possibility of chip optimizations done specifically for these tests...

Interesting results in the meantime however....

[W1nTry]

Actually what noone seems to have pointed out is the drivers used in the benchies. SPK I doubt there will be CPU implementation specific fixes just for a few gaming benchmarks so the tweak should there have been such would be in the other components. As someone pointed out (in trini post above) motherboard bios updates to recognise a processor properly and more crucially have the best possible memory timings (as A64s benefit with the ondie mem controller from lower latency) would be 1 thing to look at. Then couple the ATI (if it was indeed an ATI) drivers used, recall prior to December of last year, ATIs OpenGLs performance was still abismal until they rewrote the driver to use the 512-bit memory bus and substantially boost performance (Quake woudl have been a major downfall here if they used different video drivers). Also I have OCed my 3500+ to 2.5GHz a clear 300MHz higher (as opposed to their 200 on A BLOODY FX which has unlocked multipliers) and my board still recognised the chip correctly (note it was an even older design ala nforce 3!!!). It's like when apple does benchies, it skews the overall platform to make it look as best it can (even though I like apple myself, this is just WRONG) and it's not impossible that intel did the same. Or heck take an engineering sample mobo, cpu and cards and pit it against a pre-release version of their platform. As SPK put it, until we see the final customer available versions we won't really know whats the REAL deal. On another note maybe someone could find benchies on the net with a STOCK FX60 at those res and with those cards and see what the scores really add up to, however using an Enthusiasts mobo like the nforce 4 SLI LANPARTY or the RD3200. Trini will you take up that cup? find the same benchies from another review and do a cross reference of what intels says AMD scored vs. the conroe benchies in those reviews?

[W1nTry]

Two interesting articles (and someone who also is in agreement with what I said in teh above post):
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/08/merom_processor/
http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2006/03/if-only-they-had-time-machine.html

Anyone found benchies of a proper FX-60 platform with the benchmark settings used by intel for comparison?

[TrinireturnofGamez]

  problem is most of the tests use  intel's own timedemoes  so direct comparison will make no sense , and the use X1900s in crossfire, hard to find benchmarks with that .....

 We'll have to see when AM2 comes out.. i still doubt it will be able to beat Conroe  , but  when AMD moves to 65nm they should be able to , they are adding twice the cache , twice the FPU units,  integrated PCI-e controller and pumping up the clock speeds more .


 as   many others have put it ,  Intel  doesn't win , neither does AMD..  the customers win ! If it werent for AMD we'd all be forced to pay high prices for  crappy processors , if it weren't for intel we would probably be  at least 5 years behind in CPU technology .

W1nTry: Shame on trini still misquoting tech

[W1nTry]

ACtually trini thats not altogether true, I believe its on Anandtechs own website a review for the FX-75 scored higher in tests than the FX-60 did in what intel showed... if I can find that link i'll put it up. It's come to my attention that this is all alot of noise about nothing. They ALL seem the exact same... is it just me or are ALL these reviews generic like? they all sound bland (like intel) and they all using the same screenies save different graphs (wow excel is so hard to use) and they all sound the same "There seem to be nothing wrong, yada yada, we see here a xx% increase in FEAR, yada yada.." There's no difference in any of them... almost as if intel is sharing some of that marketing money to make alot of noise about nothing... anyways time will tell how things go, however with the thought that AM2 might support DDR3 standard from the get to we'll see how things really pan out.

For those that want a vastly more indepth information about intels new processors head over to Tom's Hardware:
Intel core architecture

[TinyGrasshopper]

as   many others have put it ,  Intel  doesn't win , neither does AMD..  the customers win ! If it werent for AMD we'd all be forced to pay high prices for  crappy processors , if it weren't for intel we would probably be  at least 5 years behind in CPU technology .

I agree. We could say whatever we want about how these benchmarks were rigged but its hard to deny that conroe is really looking optimistic.

[W1nTry]

Why should we phear intel, when intel themselves hold an Opteron as the platform to reach for
Intel IDF showed an OPTERON mobo when pushing the platform to strive for

[W1nTry]

Here's another comparison of the Core architecture to the A64. This time its a 3.3GHz FX vs. a 2.98GHz Conroe:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90743

I stand corrected crixx, how bout fessing up to that Nvidia cross gpu mistake you made?

[Crixx_Creww]

uh little clarification

Thats a 3.3 fx 60 vs a 2.9 yonah not conroe.

The fx 60 is on phase cooling and the yonah is on air.
My god intel ownz.

[W1nTry]

On another note... i've fallen to the dark side... kinda
Meh new lappy

[W1nTry]

Why phear a company that can't even make it's own chipsets properly after they SHRED their OWN second tier chipset support?

Intel reveals Vista premium OS Logo details

945 / 965 chipsets can do it


By Fuad Abazovic: Friday 24 March 2006, 08:49

[Blocked Ads][Blocked Ads]INTEL sent out a document that clearly states what you need to get a Vista certified sticker. Vista is again delayed until January 2007 but Intel wants to be ready, just in case it comes out on time.
Intel claims that both 945 and 965 chipsets are eligible for the Vista Capable PC Programme and the Windows Vista Premium OS Logo. In order to be qualified, your machine will need to support dual-channel memory, at least 1GB of system memory and an adequate memory speed to run the Aero desktop.

We don’t have any idea what the "adequate memory speed" is, that Intel is chatting about. We are uncertain whether these Intel integrated chipsets will be able to support Aero Glass as well, but we guess so.

This applies to both integrated and discrete versions of 945/965 chipsets and we are sure that Intel 915 chipset can not get this sticker as it doesn't support all you need for Vista. That's why Intel buys ATI's integrated chipsets and sells them as Grant County D101GGC, and soon Grant County 2, D102GGC2 Motherboards.

Awe... Crixx intel is relying heavily on ATI... look at that...

[TrinireturnofGamez]

   Intel is very ghey with they motherboards ,  though the all the currant chipsets will work fine with conroe , currant motherboards need a new voltage regulator to operate properly.. so that means a new mobo for conroe anyhow you take it ... 
   Southest asian people are getting their hands on Conroes as they slip through intel's factories , it seems that it has alot more integer performance than than the Athlon 64 , which was the Pentium 4's weak point all along , according to this blog which looks genuine, a 2.4ghz Conroe does 1m superpi in 21.4 seconds , Vs 35.1 seconds on Athlon FX 60s as we know them, if you look a the Sisoft Sandra benches , it has 2-3 times the integer performance of an A64 4800+.. scary.. and this is a 500 USD chip !

http://vic.expreview.com/read.php?1&part=3

   Also conroe will be cheaper than the A64 X2s due to the smaller die size,  the pricing is   reported to be:

E6700 : 2.67 GHz – FSB1066 – 4 MB cache – $529
E6600 : 2.40 GHz – FSB1066 – 4 MB cache – $315
E6400 : 2.13 GHz – FSB1066 – 2 MB cache – $240
E6300 : 1.86 GHz – FSB1066 – 2 MB cache - $210

 plus a 900-1000 USD Extreme Edition conroe with hyperthreading , clocked  @ 3ghz or more...  AMD  isn't changing their price scheme for AM2 at all...
  AMD has their work cut out for them,  even though  the K8L is  supposed to double integer performance,  the conroe will STILL have a slight advantage , plus it can maintain higher clocks due to a longer pipeline.. But kuddoes to them for 0wning intel for so long .