Author Topic: Windows 'Vista'  (Read 10912 times)

Offline Czar

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2005, 03:47:18 PM »
Quote
So I see it as them just being money hungry bastards.
I'll drink to that. I was in no way condoning the feature, just trying to shed some light on it.


And while it will be a native 64-bit OS, it will still have a 32-bit environment for running your old apps. The only question will be that of compatability, older 32-bit apps may need some tweaks to get them to run as you're accustomed, but I suspect that recent apps should have little to no problems.

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2005, 03:47:18 PM »

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2005, 08:50:36 AM »
WAIT it gets BETTER:
Quote
Your new hardware is already broken

It is a grand scheme

By Charlie Demerjian: Friday 05 August 2005, 08:41
CURRENT LARGE COMPUTER VENDORS, monitor makers, graphics card people and most notably Microsoft are being way dodgy with their current offerings. Why? DRM (Digital Rights Management) of course.

Anyone reading this knows my position on this topic, the weasels feel that they are not making enough money every time you view content. So, to make up for this, they are forcing you to pay more and ultimately stripping you of your rights through invasive DRM.

The dodgy part comes with current offerings, they are broken under LongVista, all of them. The High-Bandwidth Digital Copy Protection (HDCP) or User Reaming to Maximize Profit (URMP – pronounced 'your rump', quite fitting) means your current brand spanking new media centre PC, should you be dumb enough to buy one, will not work when Shorthorn comes out.

Yes, if you want to watch overpriced media, you need URMP. If you don't have it, your shiny new $2000 media centers and gaming stations will put up a blank screen, or if you are eminently lucky, a fuzzy image. This is to protect 'them', not you, which is why HDCP is such a stealth-evil acronym, people don't ask who is being protected, the sheeple just spend.

So, you are buying these machines, $1200 24-inch Dell monitors, $500 Nvidia GPUs, all exceedingly nice hardware BTW, and they are all broken. You are pissing your money away. Assume a three year lifespan for most hardware, probably more if you buy a pimped out SLi rig with a dual everything a a huge monitor. Sure, you are spending more than the cost of a decent car, but it really is a nice machine.

Won't you be surprised that in a year or so, your slightly less new, but still blazingly fast machine is now a doorstop. You won't be able to legally play content, and there is no realistic upgrade path. There are boxes, adaptors and eSwizzle-sticks(TM) that will make things possibly work, but they will cost more than new hardware, and almost assuredly will have less functionality.

So, where is the dodgy part? Well, they know this now, and are merrily taking your money on knowingly defective hardware. Anyone who thinks that ShortVista won't make up 85% plus of the OSes sold in the near future is crazy. With lengthening hardware life cycles, it is also fairly probable that a large number of the installations out there will be upgraded to this DRM infested nightmare.

Hardware vendors are selling you this now, and it won't work in the future. They also know it won't work, because if it would, they would be shouting it from every rooftop. So, if you are in the market right now, you have two choices. You can get something that is broken, but that is hidden from you, or you can wait. If you wait, you get URMP tainted hardware that strips you of your rights, but you get to pay more.

Basically, you are a pawn in a grand plot to funnel more money into the RIAA and MPAA member companies. Your rights? Fair play? All casualties. They know, and they are actively hiding it from you, yet you feed them more each time.

Offline TinyGrasshopper

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2005, 07:42:34 PM »
Windows XP has gotten old , but windows is already a resource hog as it is for people on 256 or less ram , will it become one for those on 512 ? if so i'll say screw microsoft and use windows Xp 64 till i upgrade....
As is evidenced by the gut-wrenching crawl that is my 256MB laptop
I'm not to worried about the anti- piracy stuff, hackers and crackers out there are light years more talented than those who design the security...
As is evidenced by the 24 hour crack of the anti-piracy measures(http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/28/microsoft_genuine_ad.html)

Am I the only one who doesn't care about 64-bit? Will it make multi-core more efficient? Cuz I know aside from gaming the 256MB laptop will still be useful for years onward once ubuntu's on it.
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Offline TriniXaeno

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2005, 01:29:24 PM »
pressura

XP on 256 is really a strain indeed.

If they raise the bar again with RAM requirement, then we can only hope Mac OSX finds it's way to the PC after all with hacked in DX9 support. lol

Offline Jdcrys_Shinkuu

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2005, 03:48:25 PM »
I think it wouldbe wise to see a SERVICE PACK before installing NETHING MICROSOFT has to offer...!!!
called me crazy but we can all remember the tragic story of Win2000 Pro (5 Service Packs!) so far XP Pro only has two released n prob another one on the way with all d d@mn spyware to rob a mans game play time....lol
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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2005, 03:48:25 PM »

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2005, 01:57:47 PM »
Some more MS crap:
Quote
Microsoft weakens OpenGL

Vista could be part of a D3D push

By Nick Farrell: Monday 08 August 2005, 06:47
THE OPENGL Foundation claims that the software giant, Microsoft is trying to shaft its free specification with the introduction of its super soar-away version of its Windows operating system Vista.

The foundation has issued a call to arms here, over Vole’s plan to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in Vista.

Users need to have a composited desktop to obtain what Vole spinsters dub the 'Aeroglass experience'. However, the foundation fears that if an OpenGL Installable Client Driver is run under Vista, the desktop compositor will switch off and the performance will be pants.

It seems that at the heart of the problem is the fact that Vista’s new interface and driver model uses DirectX in a slightly new way. These changes have had a knock on effect with other 3d graphics APIs.

Vole’s changes could force game developers to program in DirectX to take better advantage of Vista features and make it harder to port to other operating systems in OpenGL.

According to the Foundation this means that if you use Vista, OpenGL performance will be slashed by half, limited and there would be no extensions will be possible to cope with future hardware innovations. The foundation does not have a clue why Vole is doing this.

It says it is technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within Vista.

It thinks that layering OpenGL over Direct3D is all part of a cunning plan and the OpenGL community should encourage hardware & software developers, and lean on the Vole to maintain OpenGL as a first class API.

It fears that if the ‘cunning plan’ is successful, games developers could move away from OpenGL and toward Vole's own Direct3D standard.
Quote
Now why would they really do something like that? I mean OS X runs on OpenGL and beautifully, fast and without clunky DX... so what is their REAL intention by doing this? I would really laugh if lornhorn turned out to be a white elephant thats widely UN-accpeted... but that would happen in an ideal world. Ah well. Bring on the lack of rights!!!

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2005, 05:08:09 PM »
i dont see this drm thing as a big issue u know

important facts to note is that it is at this point solely for windows vista.
PLus it requires new hardware to support it.

So they not gonna push out the drm stuff in a windows update to xp machines on non supported hardware.

So to initiate the rapage, yu have to go buy the os and then go buy the hardware.
So is like yu consenting, so is not rape after all and infact yu pay then for it, so yu engaging in illegal prostitution. Silly rabbits

Offline TinyGrasshopper

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2005, 06:25:28 PM »
Some more MS crap:
Quote
Microsoft weakens OpenGL

Users need to have a composited desktop to obtain what Vole spinsters dub the 'Aeroglass experience'. However, the foundation fears that if an OpenGL Installable Client Driver is run under Vista, the desktop compositor will switch off and the performance will be pants.

Vole’s changes could force game developers to program in DirectX to take better advantage of Vista features and make it harder to port to other operating systems in OpenGL.

Now this is MAJOR balls. MAJOR BOLLOCKS.
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Offline W1nTry

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2005, 07:43:59 AM »
Spoken like a true crixx. So tell me crixx... they make a new OS, tell we yuh need new hardware and tell us it uses DRM which to the consumer who doesn't know better would sound 'really cool' THEN u realise I can't watch meh HD DVD's or HD streaming content without paying (AFTER the fact) then I realise hey, I can't make a copy of meh own music cd's or game cd's for backups.... wait meh partner have to pay to watch the dvd I BOUGHT JUST because I watching it by HIM... but wait.. WinXP and the rest will eventually be relegated to the  'no longer supported' list so I either go and get the 'illegal' LInux (cause I NOT supposed to watch DRM protected content on a Linux box since MS wmv is the olny DRM certified codec to date and Linux doh pay for dat) and all I can do is sit back get $%^&ED up de ARSE and say well I bought it so I guess I have to NaCl. Interesting opinion there crixx, glad to see someone is on MS side. Let us all know how Vista treats you and all ur content when it realises u have un-protected by DRM content and decides not to play it at all.

Offline Czar

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2005, 09:01:47 AM »
ROFL @ crixx reply!! :D Classic! :D

LMAO @ havin to NaCl!! :D

The more I read this thread the more I realise it's my biggest form of comic relief on this forum :D

Between dis and seein trinimc on -92 chakra...I eh know which funnier nah... :D
« Last Edit: August 09, 2005, 09:03:34 AM by Czar »

Offline TrinireturnofGamez

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2005, 02:20:28 PM »
64 bit will make EVERYTHING more efficient , unlike multi cores which need  years , milllions of dollars and uber genius programmers  to make programs for , 64 bit just needs a re compile of your currant code on a new compiler , programs and games will go 64 bit long before dual core ,several games already have 64 bit advantages eg. Far cry 64 bit edition with better physics and graphics  .
   64bit will speed all programs up , by at least 20% , calculation intensive ones that need tons of cpu power can gain 80-90% speed boosts .  Considering that AMD and intel have already released budget and mobile 64 bit chips ( sempron 64 , celeron 64 , turion 64 ) ,  programmers will start thinking of making their software for 64 bit processors as in a year most pcs sold will be equipped with one .
   Also 64 bit is essential for the future... 32 bit limits RAM that can be accessed by the cpu to 4 gbs , 64 bit allows thousands of times more , servers right now already run entirely on 64 bit software in order to allow them to use massive amounts of ram eg. 128 gigabytes .
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Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2005, 03:06:38 PM »
trini i now spot yuh stupid sig


global warmin my a$$
take some minus CHAKURA for that

Offline theslack3r

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2005, 09:15:21 PM »
Any of you try out vista (beta 1, 32-bit) yet?, took me 9 days straight to d/l on dial-up, plus 3 hrs to install! its pretty damn cool though, the new design is swweeet., lots of eye candy. Its still really buggy and demands alot from ur system for it to run smoothly. like any OS it needs tweaking, there's a pile of uneeded service running that could free up ram. Been trying to add it to my winxp network but sh1t is fnck, hardware compatability is piss poor atm. At this point you can't really do much with it besides go oooh and ahhh. Anyway, its a kicka$s OS in the making.

Offline Czar

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2005, 08:40:43 AM »
Excellent article from Ars Technica on the whole Windows/DRM thing...

Title: On Windows Vista, DRM, and new monitors
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2005, 08:59:54 AM »
Heres' another.. I don't see how crixx can be for this nonesense:
Quote
By: Sander Sassen

I’ve described DRM, digital rights management, as the holy grail of the movie and music industry before; it is generally perceived as their ticket to safeguard their inflated profit margins and a tool to breathe new life into their obsolete business models. DRM protected content allows them to control exactly how this content is used, distributed, and above all, can be tracked right down to the individual end user. DRM protected content is protected by an elaborate encryption scheme and can only be unlocked and played back if you follow and adhere to the requirements set forth by the producer exactly. This could mean that he only grants you the right to playback the DRM protected DVD you bought once, or dictates that you can only do so a set number of times. For DRM to work however, especially on the PC, you’d ideally need hardware support, so that both hard- and software work together to make sure the protection scheme is in no way circumvented.

Up until now the movie and music industry has been unable to partner with the likes of Microsoft or Intel to make this a reality. Microsoft’s Windows XP featured DRM, but only on a software level and Intel has hinted at a platform with DRM for a few years now, but never followed through with the concept. With the arrival of Microsoft Windows Vista and Intel’s VIIV home entertainment concept both Microsoft and Intel have however sold out to the music and movie industry and their unbridled greed. Microsoft’s Vista will, amongst other things, feature something that’s called the Output Content Protection, which is a first implementation of the NGSCB, Next Generation Secure Computing Base, the infamous platform formerly known as Palladium. This prohibits the output of protected video content unless you have HDCP, High bandwidth Digital Content Protection, support on your display. Currently a very small percentage, less than 1%, of shipping monitors support this and hence will allow you to view such content.

Intel’s VIIV is the proverbial icing on the cake, a home entertainment concept adding the needed hardware support to supplement the features as found in Windows Vista. And unlike the concept platform Intel has shown us in the past, VIIV Fork will start shipping in the first quarter of 2006, quite in time for the release of Windows Vista. The combination of the two will mean that you, the end-user, will be royally screwed in every way, shape and form. That’s right, once VIIV Fork and Vista ship you can forget about exercising your fair-use rights, no more converting songs to MP3, no more music downloads to- and from friends and family, no more DivX movies, and the list goes on. But more disturbing is the fact that new content will only be able to playback on the new platform, there, for example, will be no (legal) Linux support or support in other operating systems. Simply because any such media player, able to playback this content, will circumvent the protection scheme that is DRM, which is illegal. Basically fair use and your rights as a consumer are out of the window when VIIV Fork and Vista arrive.

With VIIV Intel has given the music and movie industry the tools to force the consumer to give up its rights and abide by their rules and has handed the keys to unlock the protection scheme to Microsoft. Looking at the track record of the music and movie industry and their watchdogs the RIAA and MPAA you can rest assured that when this platform is introduced they’ll use any possible legal avenue to further limit how you can use their content. And more importantly they’ll also make sure you pay a substantial amount of money for any use of their content that before was labeled as fair use, such as converting songs to MP3 for example. So thanks Intel and thanks Microsoft for selling out, you’ve now clearly shown us that these new features are meant to better your revenue and profits, not the computing experience of the end user. Or rather, you’ve sided with the music and movie industry and their unbridled greed and clearly don’t care one bit about what the end user wants. I guess money talks after all.

Ed.
That was taken from Tom's Hardware.

Offline Czar

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2005, 04:21:42 PM »
Essentially, any OS that wants to show HD content has to implement DRM. If not, they get stuck in the "dark ages" with "regular" DVD-quality content...[sarcasm] what a loss [/sarcasm]...or maybe it is...cos I've never actually seen HD content, so I don't exactly know what I'm missing out on...maybe it is the next big thing and as such if you want it, you gotta play by their (RIAA & MPAA) rules.

Offline TriniXaeno

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2005, 01:27:06 PM »
well I don't think crixx "for" it.

He just saying that it ain't a mandatory upgrade. You could side step it.

Is like all the supposed successors to the MP3 format.

If the users don't adopt it then we don't have much to worry about for some time.

Offline TrinireturnofGamez

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2005, 07:16:54 PM »
Guys apparently DRM is closer than we think ,  newer  intel  platforms (pentium D)  already support   DRM in windows XP , it prevents downloading of some mp3 files and piracy of some software... another reason to go with amd , INTEL IS EVIL!   

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A//www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C121027%2C00.asp&ei=FtoYQ4-oL6GY-gGC0fWICw

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A//www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm%3FNewsID%3D4915&ei=FtoYQ4-oL6GY-gGC0fWICw
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Offline TinyGrasshopper

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2005, 05:38:23 PM »
Here's a small article describing the gaming features in Vista. Nothing Technical, more about the parental content control. The part that pleases me is that it'll support an "Easy Install" option where the game can just be played without having to install, and it'll install in the background according to default settings; something which I've always thought is long overdue on the PC platform. That and the cross-compatibility with XBOX360. With features like that it looks like until apple gets around to doing something about it, which isn't close to happening, Windoze is STILL the only viable PC gmaing platform. oh well.
(http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=934&Itemid=2)

Did hear on TWiT(http://www.twit.tv) that the beta is implementing a password system to lock out installations without entering a password. This will be a welcome change in the security model, although once again its a change to what apple and linux already have.
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Offline rudeboy96

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2005, 03:35:06 PM »
A friend of mine told me that he saw windows vista for download on limewire. i haven't verified it yet, but ah sure it wasn't real.

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Re: Windows 'Vista'
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2005, 03:35:06 PM »

 


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  • Red Paradox: https://www.twitch.tv/flippay1985 everyday from 6:00pm
    May 29, 2018, 09:40:09 AM
  • Red Paradox: anyone play EA Sports UFC 3.. Looking for a challenge. PSN: Flippay1985 :)
    May 09, 2018, 11:00:52 PM
  • cold_187: @TriniXjin not really, I may have something they need (ssd/ram/mb etc.), hence why I also said "trade" ;)
    February 05, 2018, 10:22:14 AM

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