Sip and Surf Upgrade: Suggestions and Recommendations

[TrinireturnofGamez]

  the 6600 256mb is still 20 US cheaper , and the cafe's need all the video ram they can get as they can' t afford much swapping with 512 RAM ,  the 6600 isn't THAT slow , due to a dying PSU i'm running my system at 1.8ghz  and the 6600gt at 6600 speeds and its still fast enough to play BF2 at 1290x1024 with 2X Qaa pretty smooth .

[TriniXaeno]

yeah,  the 9800 Pro would have been a better choice but last I checked, it was not available in any flavour of PCI. E nor X

lol

The X800 would buss the budget but would be an awesome addition.

If we are lucky, by time they are ready for the next upgrade, 7800GTX will be in range! lol

[cdx2k1]

Allyuh stickin bad>6600GT and done.

[TriniXaeno]

$$ hoss, $$

If  yuh willin to sponsor de additional US$500.00 to get the 10 6600GTs, we will be more than happy to buy 'em.

[Beomagi]

if you lucky, by the time you ready, 7800 and FUD-oh would be out in volume to push prices down a little more.

over the next 3-4 years, how much money would sip and surf have for upgrades? (as in vidcards, cpu, ram) etc

[TriniXaeno]

I figure about the same.

Every 2-3 years the entire fleet should get a facelift. Holds through for any GL.

In our other GL, we beat the system by upgrading gradually. Every month, some more ram, a high end graphics card, etc... That way you never feel the burn of having to amass a ton of cash to upgrade 10 - 20 machines at once.

That's what we will be recommending from this point onward for all GL owners. Whether they take us up on the suggestion is another matter altogether, lol.

A word to the wise is sufficient.

[W1nTry]

So then if that be the case BAego... why not spring for some more expensive components now and pack in more ram and stuff later? go with the 939 socket 3000+ and maybe settle for 512MB of Ram for now, even 256x2 cause that'll utilize the dual ondie memory controller better and then add another 256x2 later on. Go with the 6600GT in say a few of the machines and go with 6600 vanilla otherwise. You could also go with an alternative PCIe supporting chipset... maybe a via chipset and say a biostar mobo? to counter balance the costs?

[TriniXaeno]

well we would have, but from our personal experience, those higher end components in particular didn't do jack for our gaming.

Our sempron 2600s with 1gig of ram run the same as the athlon 64 3000 with 1 gig of ram.

No noticeable performance gain for the average gamer walking into the GL. Outside of a benchmark session, you can't tell which machine is which, from just playing.

So I don't think we will be going 939 anytime soon.

Video card is the boss, which is why we sprung for the 754 PCI-E (Beomagi imc) so that we can slap in whatever card that becomes affordable down the road and is a worthy successor for the 6600.

Think about it.

In 2 years time, if we change from 6600 PCI-E 256MB to 7800GTX PCI-E 256MB, we would have gone from 2000 3dmark 2005 to 8000 3dmark 2005.

If we change from 2800+ Sempron to Athlon 64 4000+, we would go from 2000 3Dmark 2005 to 2500 3DMark 2005.

2x256mb vs 1x512 mb would have even less of an impact.

Remember, for an enthusiast, those nomimal gains may mean a lot, but in a GL setting, if it isn't a drastic improvement, it won't be worth their money.

Going 939 / Athlon 64 now would cost way too much out of the TT$3000.00 budget.

We would probably have to use 40gb drives, FX 5500s and 256MB ram to fit a 939/A64 platform within that price range. Landed on the island.

What we really need is to win lotto! lol

Then we could just go to town on the components.

[Beomagi]

have you thought about going a-xp?

Tell you what - i got some time this weekend, even though my gf is here.

i'll underclock my 64 to 1.8GHz (2800+ hammer) and run it against my 2.3-2.4 axp and clock the cards the same and see which is faster accross the board.

[TriniXaeno]

we had first planned to go Athlon XP and 6800 (non GT)
but thermal considerations changed my mind.

We had seen too many boards go up in smoke when the hsf failed due to dust build up.

The new generation mobos and chips have better thermal properties.

Also, the PCI-E will allows us to take advantage of new vid cards in the not too distant future. (1 year - 2 years)

Those considerations scrapped the Socket A / 6800 Non GT plan.

The Socket 754 / 6800 Non GT is still an option. You get the thermals but still miss out on the easy PCI-E upgrade path.

decisions, decisions!

[Beomagi]

you do have 754 pci-e boards
here's one from MSI
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130493

[W1nTry]

Well Baego I don't think AGP is going away in a hurry and in the least there will be a FUDO AGP variant I suspect. I think since upgrades are performed every 2 yrs or so, that its not a terrible idea to go AGP since its cheaper and in does have the 6800 Ultra or X850XT as their current fastest which for a GL should be MORE than adequate should it ever come to that. PCIe is great yeah but they are constantly upping it so u have boards with more bandwidth so u can get 16x by 2 and higher for SLI, crossfire, SLI2 etc. I think yuh safe with 754 and AGP or even 939 and AGP since the AGP will drop cost a lil and might be enough for the 939. I just looking at higher memory bandwidth as that will start to come into play as time goes along, and well rem 939 is DUAL core ready... just a few things to think about.

[TriniXaeno]

yeah beomagi, in case you didn't notice, that is what we went with:

754 mobo's with PCI-E

The point being made before (which I suspect you are replying too) was in reference to the 754 mobo + 6800 Non GT option. That option is an AGP option for a very good reason. Only the 6800 Non GT AGP cards stand a good chance to unlock the pipes to achieve near 6800GT performance. Going PCI-E would mean you are stock with a stock Non GT card (no pun intended, lol)

Also, those boards, as great as they are (we currently use them in the GL) offer lack lustre AGP performance. It only works with select video cards and then, only at reduced speed.

For instance, on that Nforce 4 "AGP" port, an ATI 9800 Pro gets 10,000 - 12,000 3dmark 2001. In a regular Nforce 3 250 AGP port, the same card does 18,000. It only operates at AGP 1X or so with the card. Needless to say, that ain't gonna cut it.

That is a helluva performance drop. It isn't meant to be a long term solution obviously, but a nice stop gap while you wait for  your PCI-E monster card to arrive.

If you're going AGP, you definetely want to stick with Nforce 3 250. We were STRONGLY considering that AGP option, for all the reasons w1ntry just pointed out. Unfortunately, it would cost too much and buss the budget.

After running the figures, the savings of going with an AGP option just aren't that great. The "gamble" of hoping all your 6800 cards unlock is another risk. If it's just one card, fine but you would need to drink a fish broff seasoned with 4 leaf clovers to get "lucky" 10+ times. lol

Working with such a tight budget sucks! Pressure.

This thread has generated a ton of great options though so if money ever avails itself (think lotto), we know what to do.

Is this a fair summary of what we have come up with so far?

TT$3000.00 Landed (<----We are Here)
Sempron 2800 754
Nforce 4 754 (PCI-E ver)
6600 256MB PCI-E
80GB
Pros: Cheap, PCI-E for future vid card upgrades.
Cons: Small HD, not powerful enough at stock for 4xAA , 8XAF at 1280x1024 in some of todays games. Dead end cpu upgrade path.

TT$3500.00 Landed
Athlon 64 3000+ 754
Nforce 3 250 754
6600GT 128MB AGP / 6800 128MB Non GT AGP (Gambling Man option, Unlock the mofos)
120gb

Pros:
Great performance today, if card unlocks. Good performance even if it doesn't. Roomy HD
Cons:
No PCI-E for easy vid card upgrade in the future should the 7800GTX start selling for US$120.00 in 2 years time. Dead end cpu upgrade path.

TT$4000.00 Landed
Athlon 64 3000 939
Nforce 4 939
6600 GT 256MB PCI-E / 6800 128MB Non GT PCI-E (Gambling Man Option, Unlock the mofos)
160GB
Pros: Kicks ass, future proof processor / graphics upgrade path. Enough HD space to share with moms.
Cons: Nada

[TriniXaeno]

guys,

the upgrades are here!

benchmarked and added to the official benchmark thread, which you can find here:

http://gatt.carigamers.com/index.php?topic=5275.0

3dmark 2005: 2572

Not too shabby.