How will Mac move to Intel affect us as gamers?

[TinyGrasshopper]

Well for most of last week, the Mac move to x86 has been the big news everywhere with lost of discussion and prophesying. The reason that the twits gave for still running Windows is just the games. So will this move affect Mac game development at all? Would they be able to make Mac ports faster? I certainly would be interested in dropping Windows if games came out on the Mac and Linux faster. What about Virtual PC and emulation? Would it be more transparent than it is now?

http://www.brad-oliver.com:8081/~boliver/blog/
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/07/gamedev/index.php

[TriniXaeno]

this is THE  big question.

We had long discussions about this at the office.

If they can somehow leverage the existing titles at the same time as this transition, Windows will really be in trouble.

If they can't and have to wait for future titles to be produced for "OS X", then Windows is still gonna reign as king for 3-4 years before a critical mass of hot games are available on mac.

[W1nTry]

Well think of it this way, games that run on OpenGL will be ported alot faster than games that are DirectX since thats a MS standard. So the real questions is, what tech are future games using predominantly and that will answer where the Mac will stand on games in the near future. This kinda suggests that games are still gonna be slow to port IF at all, but that may not be necessarily true. It depends on market demand. If we all owned Macs and not PCs then whatever ran on the Mac would be the most produced titles. However since the majority of the world + dog runs on windows, we have DirectX games. Now lets look at the bigger picture, Apple is clearly going after Windows since running on X86 architecture means ur OS will run on PC hardware. Which means their hardware sales POTENTIALLY could suffer, but then as I read in an article today Mikey Dell said if apple were to open up their OS to other distros they would gladly run OS X on their Dells. So in the bigger scheme of things, if this move by apple really makes them a force to recon in the OS dept its safe to say that game developers will take notice and write games that will work on the Apple OS. I think games in the immediate future will be slow to the apple, however I think as time progresses and depending on how much of a dent OS X makes in the OS world, we could very well see more and mroe games coming out first and porting faster to a machine running OS X (not necessarily an apple).

[TinyGrasshopper]

Apple is NEVER gonna release OSX as a standalone product. They've said that a million times. That's Apple culture, they're a hardware company. Now as for the hackers... That's a another story.

I agree that choice will still depend largely on market demand, but the speed is still debatable. This would actually be good for hardware sales since they're now running on a commodity processor. They'd be able to get more chips, cheaper and with they're current sales there'd be higher profit margins or cheaper products. If the appeal that OSX garners becomes more mainstream, helped by the iPod among other things, they'd be serious competition for Dell and HP. They'd be the Lexus of computers as John C. Dvorak said. I think that Dell sees this and that's why he's trying to coerce Apple to open up OSX. That's also why they announced that they're starting a luxury line of computers, to compete in that market.

The real question of which i know nothing in relation to the topic is how much do games rely on the API and how much do they rely on the processor. It's safe to assume API but with XBox 360 and PS3 moving to PowerPC family, then DirectX must be pretty portable right? I certainly don't think it'll make mac game ports slower. They're pretty freakin slow as it is.

Actually that poses another question, will PC-Console ports become more sparse with the divergence in processors?

And of course the simple answer. Apple said that these Mactel (literally, Apple trademarked the name) machines will be capable of dual-booting Windows. If that's the case why don't I just buy one box(or screen in the case of the iMac), and triple boot Linux, Windows and OSX? That G5 is so expensive as it is. lol.

It's true they fighting to compete with Microsoft. Just the other day engadget reported that Apple put out a patent for an Apple tablet Mac. yep they'e gonna make those tablet thingys "cool"

[TriniXaeno]

part of what keeps OS X happy is the limited scope of hardware it has to deal with.

Throw OS X out to the wolves (read the very open pc market) and you'd likely find it pink screening and hard rebooting just as much as windows, if not even moreso.

As a techie, I'd like to have an OS X CD, throw it on a rig and have a go.

As a user, I want a tried and true platform that doesn't have any compatablity issues.  Apple can only guarantee that if they control the software AND the hardware.

Great point with the porting of titles.

I had secretly hoped that the XBOX, being so close to a PC, would bring console titles across to PC-CDROM.

In a ways, I think it has. Some titles have been popping up on the PC platform from developers noted for  being console only. I would imagine porting to xbox was so close that they could have simply upped the ante a little and released a PC game for not much more development time and money.

Kudos to MS! (Even if it did have to cost me a massive delay in Halo's PC launch)

Now that they are switching gears with the XBOX 360, I am not so sure if the trend will continue.

One can only hope that the console games ported to PC, made sufficient sales figures to justify continued development.

If not, that may be the end of that.

What I truly dream off though, is platform independance.

Some global gaming API that supplants OpenGL, DirectX, ps3, mac, etc... and allows a game to run on any and all platforms.

Pipe dream business.

[Czar]

Now that they are switching gears with the XBOX 360, I am not so sure if the trend will continue

Aren't they using the XNA architecture for game development on both the Xbox360 and Longhorn? If that's the case then I think it would only take minor investments to ensure that the games can be developed to run on both...at least that was my understanding...?

[TriniXaeno]

How does that fit in with the dx9 roadmap? is it a replacement?

[W1nTry]

Actually the thing is, you can get OS X right now as a standalone install CD. Albeit a lil costly, no more costly than a MS OS. Thing is UNIX is very stable so I doubt that u'd get many screens of death and in the least the app will fail and return you to the desktop. They will have to be very careful with the distros of say an OS X install cd and most likely it'll be tied to hardware they produce. However as someone pointed out rightfully, hackers is another matter and no amount of hardware searches in the installation will stop a hacker from making a PC isntall CD. Or they could be honeslty going after the OS market with special performance boosts indigenous to their hardware. Maybe Apple will be strictly P4 EE's or maybe Intel will make Prescotts running with a 1066FSB for them, who knows exactly. Time will tell.

[Czar]

How does that fit in with the dx9 roadmap? is it a replacement?

I believe it is the next evolutionary step for what we now know as DirectX...I'll see if I can't find the gamespot news piece on it...

[Venom]

xbox all the way,

pc gaming is dead dead dead

[TinyGrasshopper]

From what little I know, XNA is supposed to be a Development Environment (Platform Independent, most likely) for games, kinda like a Visual Studio for Games. It probably uses DirectX. I think that this is one of those moves on Microsoft's part to evolve from just makers of Windows to suppliers of tools that require the Windows platform, as is evidenced by PlaysforSure and .NET.

The replacement for DirectX is gonna be Avalon. I know nothin about it apart from the name. That and the fact that it may not ship with Longhorn.

We'll have to rely on the hackers it seems if we want MacOSX on a beige box, cuz apparently the Intel chips will have a form of DRM preventing OSXIntel from running on other systems.

[W1nTry]

Thats just nasty!!! wha bout AMD dread... *sighs* again I am disappointed with Apple... when will I be able to move back to the Apple... *reminisces on the good old days of the Apple II e*

[TinyGrasshopper]

Doh worry . the leet hackers will get right on that. I read about a rumour that the OSXIntel is already on the warez sites. astounding huh?

And you could always just buy an Intel Mac mini

[richjob]

No difference.


Mac users are a different breed.

Why slum with the miserable Pc folk?


Dread, I want a Mac Mini.

[W1nTry]

No difference.


Mac users are a different breed.

Why slum with the miserable Pc folk?


Dread, I want a Mac Mini.

Well said, although its caused a major outcry from hardcore mac enthusiasts that Intel inside will now be inside their precious boxes.

[TinyGrasshopper]

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1146

Apparently the developer box is basically a PC.

[TriniXaeno]

lol at out cry

This was the situation

Apple vs IBM (Somehow downplayed in recent times)
Mac vs PC (Beauty vs Brawn)
OSX vs Windows (Stability vs Versatility)
PowerPC vs Intel (risc vs cisc)

IBM is out of the PC game now.
A real point of contention is being thrown out the window with Mac's going Intel.

That only leaves Mac vs PC and OSX vs Windows to argue over.

Pressura.