Author Topic: Monopolies abound  (Read 2900 times)

Offline W1nTry

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Monopolies abound
« on: March 08, 2005, 08:29:39 AM »
Now we all know about Micr0soft being one, and some ppl would say d3ll is one too. Now for the monopoly of the chip manufacturers...
read here let me know what u think:
Quote
Intel Japan forced OEM to buy 100% of its chips

Updated AMD backs Japanese Intel ruling, shock

By INQUIRER staff: Tuesday 08 March 2005, 09:35

CHIP FIRM Chimpzilla (AMD) said it supported the FTC of Japan on its ruling that Intel (Chipzilla) violated section three of the country's antimonopoly act.

In a statement, AMD VP Thomas McCoy said: \"Using market power illegally to limit innovation and, more importantly, consumers' freedom to choose, cannot be tolerated. We encourage governments around the globe to ensure that their markets are not being harmed as well.\"

McCoy added, and indeed it's hard to stop him in his flow: \"The evidence of harm to consumers is obvious. By preventing PC manufacturers from using CPUs of their choice, Intel's misconduct deprived consumers worldwide of the freedom to purchase computers that best fit their needs. Efforts by an avowed monopolist to artificially set market shares to exclude competition clearly violates antitrust standards globally.\"

He claimed that Intel had deliberately set out to artificially limit AMD by saying to five OEMs that had 77 per cent market share in Japan they had to comply with its terms and conditions.

A mock gravestone that used to be in the foyer of Cyrix in Richardson, Texas. Pic copyright the INQUIRER.The ruling from the FTC said that one manufacturer was forced to buy 100 per cent of its microprocessors from Intel Japan, while another OEM was made to suppress its buying from AMD to 10 per cent than less.

The ruling also says that Intel Japan used rebates and marketing practices including its Inside programme provided through its parent company in Japan.

The sactions imposed by the FTC mean that Intel must tell its customers and its employees that it can't give rebates in Japan if such funds wipe out the competition. The European Commission is continuing to probe Intel for anti competitive practices, AMD said.

Taiwanese firm Via had been part of the European Commission investigation, but withdrew from the affair.

Intel also made a statement on the FTC ruling. It said it is evaluating the assertions and the recommendations it had made before deciding what steps it would take.

Bruce Sewell, Intel's chief lawyer, said: \"One of the core principles of competition policy is the notion that such policies should be based on sound economics. There is a broad consensus that competition regulators should only intervene where there is evidence of harm to consumers. It is apparent the JFTC's Recommendation did not sufficiently weigh these important principles\". It has 10 days to respond to the ruling. So Intel is probably appealing.

Imagine the day when u go out and all u can choose is which model D3ll, running which flavour of MS OS on which model 1ntel CPU... things not looking good ppls                    

Carigamers

Monopolies abound
« on: March 08, 2005, 08:29:39 AM »

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Monopolies abound
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2005, 11:37:52 AM »
stuepssss

weak babies
amd crying cause intel giving rebates boooflikkinnnhoo

who suffering dere? intel givin rebates and de prices lowered so consumers get uber chips for lowby prices and we supposed to be vex?


weak amd here bring once again
                     

Offline W1nTry

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Monopolies abound
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2005, 12:12:19 PM »
Dread crixx read it properly. The system integrators get money. We pleabs at the end of the food chain get what they give us. Think of it, if all that there was, was 1ntel, then they could single handedly price their CPUs as they like. I laugh at u 1ntellites who think that 1tel wouldn't make u pay thru ur @rse for their product if they had the chance.  Not that I saying that @MD wouldn't do the same. However it is important to repect ur competition and as a CONSUMER we should be happy @MD putting so much pressure on 1ntel. So bleh                    

Offline W1nTry

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Monopolies abound
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 12:19:38 PM »
A lil more indepth into this matter:

Quote
Intel's monopolistic practices explored

Japanese report dissects the stuff

By Wil Harris: Thursday 10 March 2005, 12:16
[Advert]
A PAPER by Koki Arai, an analyst at the Institute of Social and Economic Research at Osaka University, comprehensively breaks down the ruling of the Japanese Fair Trade Comission this week that Intel has been involved in monopolistic activity in the Japanese market.

The paper, which runs to 30 pages, explains in clear detail the anti-competitive practices of ChipZilla as found by the Fair Trade Commission, and tests its behaviour against common theories of monopoly. It is worth some time in analysis here.

The Law
In March this year, the JFTC investigated Intel under the provisions of the Japanese Antimonopoly Act. The act states that:

Article 3: No entrepreneur shall effect private monopolization or unreasonable restraint of trade
Article 2(5): 'Private monopolization'...shall mean such business activities... [which] excludes or controls the business activities of other entrepreneurs... contrary to the public interest.

If you're familiar with US antitrust law, its provisions are pretty similar to those in Section 2 of the Sherman Act.

The Practices
The activity that the Commission primarily objected to was the conduct of the firm's Rebate Programme, the details of which are outlined.

According to the Commission, in order to obtain a discount on processor prices from Intel, PC manufacturers had to meet a number of different criteria. The first was to sell a base ratio of Intel processors. In 2001, NEC received rebates to the tune of millions of dollars (although the exact amount is withheld in the paper) in return for setting a baseline ratio of Intel processor sales.

Sony switched from AMD processors in 2003, establishing an Intel baseline ratio in return for rebates that paid for model catalogues and magazine advertising.

The second requirement of the rebate programme was the requirement to reject a competitor's CPU, even if that CPU was better performing or had more features. Fujitsu got a large price discount per thousand pieces for the rejection of AMD processors.

To a lesser extent, the JFTC objected to the Intel Inside co-marketing fund, which provides money to manufacturers bearing Intel's logo. One of the 'requests' from Intel was that AMD logos and machines were moved to pages buried deeper within their websites.

Those are the facts of the case as the Commission found them.

Theories of Monopolisation
Arai then goes on to apply these facts to common theories of monopolistic behaviour. The first is the Aghion-Bolton principle. This boils down to a simple pattern of behaviour: that an incumbent seller facing the threat of a competitor entry to the market will sign deals to try to prevent the entry of lower cost producers. In this situation, the incumbent is better off and the buyer is no worse off than he was previously. If all sellers believe the others will sign, the risk associated with the deal is minimised.

This is a simple, but effective way of examining Intel's behaviour, that describes it at a high-level. There are a couple of issues with this analysis, however. The fact is that buyers welcomed the entry of AMD into the market precisely because it avoids monopolisation and the domination of Intel. The theory doesn't take into account the reluctance of buyers to support an incumbent monopoly. It also fails to take into account the fact that buyers are ultimately seeking to satisfy market demand, and so a competitor can gain ground by creating that demand.

The Judd-Ashiya state that an entrant in to a single market can be allowed to credibly limit his capacity by the incumbent, allowing the incumbent to react less aggressively to entry.

By allowing a competitor into the market, the exit cost for the incumbent is small and may, in fact, prevent the entry of a stronger firm. This is a strategy that Intel appeared to have adopted with regards to laptops: we would suggest that the appearance of Transmeta Crusoe machines in the Sony lineup was not disputed by Intel in the hope of preventing the stronger competitor - AMD - from gaining a foothold there. That, however, is speculation.

Relating to the real world
Relating these theories of monopoly back to the real world requires a little more thought. Intel clearly conceded some product space to AMD to allow it to enter the market with its low-end processors such as the K5 and K6, back in the day. The weak firm, however, has grown strong enough to compete by expanding its product line to include high-end processors such as the Athlon, and, today, cutting-edge technology like the Opteron. As AMD entered the high-end, Intel monopolised rather than conceded and saturated the market with offerings for every conceivable type of product. Arai suggests that it is especially important to watch for monopolisation by any company with multiple differentiated product lines, since this offers ample opportunity for such anti-competitive acts as predatory pricing. That would appear to be born out by the facts of this case.

This Japanese ruling will undoubtedly cause some waves in Intel, especially since the parties mentioned - NEC, Fujitsu, Sony - are all major clients of Intel's in the Japanese territory and, indeed, worldwide. As AMD prepare for a high-profile CeBit, and Intel ring the changes at their HQ, it's clear that the CPU market is in a transition where AMD is growing more powerful. Whilst there have been analyses of the market in recent weeks that suggest that AMD may not have capitalised fully on its technology leadership over the past year, it is clear that as long as Intel keeps shooting itself in the foot with cases like this, it will always have a helping hand.

Intel, in a press release, said that it was currently evaluating the report before deciding if and how it would respond to the report. It said that it believed its business practices are both fair and lawful. An Intel spokeswoman wouldn't comment any further.

phew... that was alot and somewhat confusing to read. Point is, 1ntel is acting dirty, ah well such is business I suppose.                    

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Monopolies abound
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 01:18:22 PM »
this silly propaganda filled article further proves my point.

Monopolies tend to dominate a market by pushing competitors out, keeping them out and then  jacking up prices as they so wish because yu have no choice but to buy from them if yu wish to obtain that product.


BUTTTT intel is doing the opposite here, they are offering their superior technology CHEAPER AND ON A GREATER SCALE THAN THEIR COMPETITION IS DOING IT!!
thats called business, the consumer is the one that benefits.

If AMD doesnt want to cow boy up an drop their damn prices to be competitive with intel, then why de ass she we be sorry for them????????

Thas like being sorry for flikkin tstt! COME ON~!

If amd could deliver in quantity and at such low prices like intel is doing THEN THE MANUFACTURERS WOULD BE BUYING AMD NOT INTEL!!

and if that was the case, yu know everyone would be saying, oh what intel complainin bout, they vex cause amd selling for cheaper and in greater quantity.

As far as i see it, intel is playing AMDs game of old, selling cheaper and in greater quantity.

The king has come back to reclaim his throne and all must tremble in fair.

Another part complains that intel is saturating the market with lots of processor choices.

WHY IN DE HELL IS THIS CONSIDERED A BAD THING!
THEY GIVIN CONSUMERS MORE VARIETY!
THEY LETTING THEM EXCERCISE FREEEDOM OF CHOICE!

a price to suit all budgets!
but nooooooooooooooooooooooo greedy amd want charity
they want intel to only sell in the high end and they want all rights to dominate the low to mid range with their inferior STOLEN TECHNOLOGY!
bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

alyuh letting alyuh prejudice blind alyuh to these very apparent truths!

just cause amd is de under dog, doh mean that intel doh deserve de credit where it is due.
                     

Carigamers

Monopolies abound
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 01:18:22 PM »

Offline W1nTry

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Monopolies abound
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 02:57:46 PM »
Quote
Monopolies tend to dominate a market by pushing competitors out, keeping them out and then  jacking up prices as they so wish because yu have no choice but to buy from them if yu wish to obtain that product.
Umm k, so we understand this, and how is this healthy?

Quote
BUTTTT intel is doing the opposite here, they are offering their superior technology CHEAPER AND ON A GREATER SCALE THAN THEIR COMPETITION IS DOING IT!!
thats called business, the consumer is the one that benefits.
1. Not superior as ALL the proof in gaming, business benches, power consumption has shown
2. CHEAPER MY @$$ as I recall all @MD's prices on ALL their tech is cheaper and better.
3. Greater scale is a moot point cause 1ntel has the MANUFACTURING capabilities to put out more, last I check those fabs don't GROW OVERNIGHT and @MD is expanding as fast as they can and as fast as their capital allows. so crixx stuff it.

Quote
If AMD doesnt want to cow boy up an drop their damn prices to be competitive with intel, then why de ass she we be sorry for them????????
See point 2 above.

Quote
Thas like being sorry for flikkin tstt! COME ON~!
TSTT is the phone monopoly down here... how is this point relavant as a case AGAINT @MD... whaev crixx

Quote
If amd could deliver in quantity and at such low prices like intel is doing THEN THE MANUFACTURERS WOULD BE BUYING AMD NOT INTEL!!
See point 3 above.

Quote
and if that was the case, yu know everyone would be saying, oh what intel complainin bout, they vex cause amd selling for cheaper and in greater quantity.
crixx u are like that vacuum that works all on its own... hits a wall and goes in a diff direction with no real point, well the vacuum has a point, whats urs?

Quote
As far as i see it, intel is playing AMDs game of old, selling cheaper and in greater quantity.
Again as above with the vacuum... didn't u say 1ntel could make more cheaper? how is it u saying @MD now, or ever for that matter again see point 3 above???

Quote
The king has come back to reclaim his throne and all must tremble in fair.
Umm the king was never overthrown 1ntel is still the largest manufacturer of processor in the PC market, again a moot point, save now David has a 64-bit, cheaper, cooler, faster sling to slay Goliath with and what u wanna do? beat down on david, imagine how that story would have turned out if the powers that be let goliath kick the #$%^T outta david? anyways..

Quote
Another part complains that intel is saturating the market with lots of processor choices.

WHY IN DE HELL IS THIS CONSIDERED A BAD THING!
THEY GIVIN CONSUMERS MORE VARIETY!
THEY LETTING THEM EXCERCISE FREEEDOM OF CHOICE!
Dude, yeah again choice, lets see, i'll have the P4 with the 1ntel chipset oh and a 1ntel mobile solution... dude if NOT for @MD u would have to buy WHAT they want to sell u, they only HAD to make such variety cause the competition was KICKING their @$$es. MOOT POINT


Quote
a price to suit all budgets!
but nooooooooooooooooooooooo greedy amd want charity
they want intel to only sell in the high end and they want all rights to dominate the low to mid range with their inferior STOLEN TECHNOLOGY!
bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Stop living under a rock, @MD just wants a FAIR piece of the pie, and u CAN'T GET THAT if ur competition using their muscle to SQUEEZE ur customers. Face it if @MD has the MONEY 1ntel has they would offer rebates as well and fight for it, but since they DON'T its unfair that 1ntel comes and says buy more than 75% of my processors and NOT the competition and I will give u money, thats called a BRIBE last I checked. STOLEN TECH MY @$$ if it were 1ntel would sue @MD out of business.

Quote
alyuh letting alyuh prejudice blind alyuh to these very apparent truths!

just cause amd is de under dog, doh mean that intel doh deserve de credit where it is due.
U have it the other way around, jsut cause 1ntel is the big guy u givin them all teh credit, even as a fan of @MD, I still big up 1ntel for stuff like the DOthan, or their marketing capabilities, or even things like their chipsets. U on the other hand are such a 1ntel fanboy I have NEVER seen u so much as compliment the underdog ONCE for being FIRST to 64-bit X86, having better power consumption, being faster in real world tests in the past oh what 8 months!!! crixx ur just as biased as 1ntel is in getting their ONLY competition out. give credit where credit is due my @$$.                    

Carigamers

Monopolies abound
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 02:57:46 PM »

 


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