Dawn of the physics processing unit

[W1nTry]

We all know about CPU's and most know about GPU's even a few know about VPU's but now we could be seeing the next evolution in that naming convention. Enter PPU or Physics Processing Unit. As the name implies its to be used to add more realism to games and to offload a tremendous amount of work off the CPU and GPU. Game developers apparently love the idea since names like carmack have been wanting more in their games of late. Here is the article I read on it:

Age of physics processing units dawns

Games Developers Conference 2005 AGEIA makes games look more real

By Fuad Abazovic in San Francisco: Monday 07 March 2005, 23:50
WE FLEW half the way around the globe to see a cool new marchitecture and we haven't been disappointed. Yet.

After decades of listening about Central Processing Units, years of listening about Graphic Processing Units and millimoments of listening about audio processing units, it is time to learn the new term. It's time to start talking about physics processing units (PPUs).

I have a feeling that we will be talking much more about such PPUs in the near future as these are going to change the way computer games look like. The company behind this marchitecture is called AGEIA and is a \"Fabless Company\" with lots of investors around, including mighty Taiwanese giant TSMC and the almost almighty Bank'o'America. Here in San Francisco's Games Developer Conference the firm revealed its chip called symbolically PhysX. It’s the world first Physics Processing Unit (PPU), they reckon. These guys have taped out the chip and made a final product and reference card design ready as we write.

The answer is actually an add in card with either PCI Express or a PCI interface with up to 128MB of dedicated GDDR 3 memory that will take over all physics in the games. We saw some cool demos done in software on a laptop of what this card can do. It can operate with 32000 particles/rigid bodies or should I say bones? [You should, Fudo, you should. Ed.] When we talk about fluids, such cards can handle up to 50000 rigid bones. A CPU can do a couple hundred at the most.

The card operates under 25W (Watts) so the company is still not sure whether it needs an external power connector or not. The chip itself has 125 million transistors and it's quite a large piece of silicon but that's no probbo for TSMC. The chip and card designs are ready, so the company only needs retailers, OEMs and notebook manufacturers to embrace the marchitecture and start releasing designs. There will be cards for notebooks to boost gaming physics on notebooks as well.

The company said it's following the Nvidia business model as it wants to produce the chips and sell them to OEMs and manufacturers that will later make boards based on the design. Or \"partners\", as the INQUIRER describes such souls.

Companies such as Epic are actually very interested in the marchitecture and we are told that at least 15 significant games are going to be released using this marchitecture. We are told to look for the games by the end of the year and that's the timing for the so called \"time to market\".

We saw some cool demos where the company demonstrated \"liquid fluids\" with many \"bones\" and you can see the \"lava\" and \"water\" stimulations that look much better than ever before. It looks more real and much more alive.

Such cards can give some life to collision detection and can for example make a character go through grass and move every single grass while walking, adding a higher lever of realism into the scene than ever before. Looks cool I have to say. What need for grass?

We also saw some liquid simulations, where you could see blood spilled more realistically than ever before. It's especially good when you blow up a house into the smallest infinitesimal pieces, or bricks and mortar as the INQ calls them. It actually looks out of this world. I cannot imagine this in a war game. It will blow your minds. It almost looks like Bosnia and Herzegovina 12 years back.

Big guys like Gabe Novell, the developer of Half Life 2, asked for more physics and Jon Carmak of Doom 3 wanted the same. The industry likes the marchitecture and developers want to programme for it. The application programming interface (API) is the well known Novodex physics engine and AGEIA actually owns this famous physics engine company. The big publishers have worked on the titles for the last 14 months and you will see some of the releases very soon.

You can expect to see such cards in shops by the end of the year, and the company will release the things when enough developers finish their titles. µ

seems that I will be needing that additional PCIe port.. the question is do I need a 16X, 8X, 4X or 1X... hmm this could really foil my upgrade plans...                    

[TriniXaeno]

hmm
would have been better if this came as a freebie on new graphics cards and not be a separate purchase and pci slot altogether.

I guess in a matter of time.                    

[Crixx_Creww]

they said pcie and pci

would a pci solution make anysense?

That would seemingly slow things down dramatically, diverting data from the bus to the pci bus hmmmrrr

well i guess they know wat they doin, the idea does seem like a natural progression, a sort of, why hasnt this been done before kinda thing.

Well if the audigy 2 can reduce the load on yur processor by as much as 15% and thats on pci, then this physics cards should work soundly right.                    

[Czar]

I agree with baego here...this should have been put on the graphics cards themselves...in fact, when I first started reading the article, I immediately thought it might have been a new announcement by nVidia or ATI about something they were adding to the next generation of cards...would have been a serious addition indeed...                    

[W1nTry]

Yuh never know, but u see having a separate physics card would prove better for say engineering firms that just want to do large calculations on the card. Saving time and not needing to purchase an expensive video card to get the physics capabilities. Think of it from the perspective of the firm that developed the chip. At least this way they can be both manufacturer and supplier. They can sell their own niche product to the masses and if a firm like @TI or Nv1dia want to include this as part of their design they can sell then the chips. However u will also realise that this card in itself will be a secondary source of heat and power drain. So really and truly, putting them on the already overheated, RAM eating card could be a problem. However think about SLI with a physics card as the secondary??? I think that would be a great idea. (I better get that patented or something).                    

[SPK]

Hey, the whole thing about integrating it is just a question of feasbility.

Maybe they don't have the required technology to reduce the PPU to comfortably fit on the same card with the GPU, or the extra price of placing such technology would drive video card prices even higher. Such integration may drive prices for these cards even further off the roof as is!

It's just like in the old days when math co-processors were a separate entity, that could be purchased if viewed as being needed. It seems that similar logic is being applied: if you view it as something that is needed, then get one.

In the future it may become integrated as the cost to develop such technology becomes reasonable enough to cram it in at the same time.

Either way, this is some serious technology that they want to implement, and it's a welcome change to just making 'faster, beefier video cards'.                    

[TrinireturnofGamez]

you mad ? integrate another 125 million transistors into a video card ? Most don't even have that many as it is                 ( 9800 pro = 110 million )
    .  Though it would be a nice step forward it would make video cards more expensive AND less available (  more transistors= lower yields ) .  
    Nvidia wants to start integrating sound into their next generation video cards ,  with a soundstorm MCP at only 6 million transistors,  this is ALOT more feasable ,  it won't affect the cost of a video card  a bit ,  and it will put Creative out of business for the gaming market .  They'll probably start calling them 'multi media cards '  by the end of this year.  
   But  with the sound card bieng thrown out the window, we can probably afford a decently priced 'physics card'   .  I doubt we'll actually see or need them till 2007 .
   And of course i'm sure we can get those physics card to do WORK as well , next generation 3d rendered movies done completely in hardware , with fully interactive environments like a game .   We already can compile simple algorithms and do ray tracing on a Geforce 6 , this isn't  too far ahead .                      

[W1nTry]

Yes Yes Yes but what about the possibility of using the two cards in tandem? I doubt SLI will allow for it per say, but since i've heard that @TIs solution or rather implementation of SLI will use the PCIe bus iteself to move data to and fro between the two video cards, what about doing the same with the physics engine. Instead of running a 16x and a 1x or a 4x u run two 8x PCIe lanes as in SLI mode and have the physics card perform all that good stuff and feed it into the video card for output. It will take load off the GPU, CPU and allow for more realistic looking games. Of course now add to that XDram and faster cores and what do u have? hmm well time will show I suppose.                    

[TrinireturnofGamez]

Unreal 3 is supposed to support this  technology, and cards are scheduled to  be released by the end of this year ! men start gathering shilling and saving 10 cents , your next rig will cost more .    
   also this means you won't need a killer cpu to run unreal 3 , and less RAM ...   , but it will still cost a bundle to build a next gen rig .                    

[Czar]

Q&A: Epic Games' Tim Sweeney on Ageia PhysX: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119896.html

Good to see such a big developer throwing some weight behind it...hope some other big names do the same...like Carmack and Newell...                    

[W1nTry]

Heres a lil goodie, below is a prototype picture of the ppu its features 128MB GDDR3 and will come in both PCI and PCIe. This is just a prototype so expect the release board to be smaller than this. Its manufacturer at TSMC and will be out later this year. Quite a few game developers have been working with AGEIA for up to 14months now apparently
  so expect levels in some of ur favourite titles to be optimized for these cards!                    

[Crixx_Creww]

HOLY MOLEY SHES GOT A BIG ASS!!

reducing that to fit on a vid card will take some uber slim fast!

i like de idea of using to 8x pcie slots to transfer data between vid and ppu. sounds promising.

for some reason though  i still believe that the agp +pci solution may be kinda off.


the comments made bout how the math co processor used to be an option is an interesting one.

cause now they are integrated into chips and its not even given a second thought.
so then can we expect in a few years that it will be the standard and not the exception to have a vid card with ppu integrated?                    

[W1nTry]

I don't see the integration of the two happening anytime in a hurry, for the sole purpose that they both take up far too much real estate on teh PCB and cause the @TI and Nv1dia would have to pay AGEIA to use their tech on their cards. Which is something I am sure they will want to avoid. Can u imagine that? what 400M Transistors, 256MB + 128MB, (min) GDDR3, over 150W heat dissipation, a PCB the size of ur house (ok maybe just ur case). heatsinks made of gold lol... it would be uber expensive. Not practical yet. Maybe when they using 64nm fabs it and XDram it will be feasible. Give it at least a 2 yrs.                    

[W1nTry]

Update:

AGEIA Physics Processing Unit demoed

Up and running impressively

By Fuad Abazovic: Wednesday 25 May 2005, 02:10
WE WROTE a couple times before about some wizardry called a PPU (PhysX Processing Unit) and now we've seen the actual hardware in action. Last time we saw this marchitectural miracle we saw the card but all the demos we saw were software rendered.

This time, demos were rendered in real time with all the fancy physics detailed and effects on.

We have to say that seeing hardware in action was breathtaking and we do believe that this is the next step in game evolution.

This hardware add-in card presents 40,000 bones (rigid bodies) on screen at a time, while even Dual core AMD or Intel CPUs can calculate just few hundreds. When it comes to Fluids, PPU can render even more rigid bodies. Your game will look like never before.

AGEIA says sample cards will be ready in Q3. Actually, hardware is ready even now but AEGIA wants to wait for content before launching. The cards should be available in retail sometimes in Q4.

A company spokesman said that in retail those cards should cost between 250 and $300. WE understand Asus will be one of the first companies who will offer those cards in retail.

Its interesting to notice that many of the AGEIA executives comes from 3DFX and those guys sure know how hard it was to convince people to use 3D hardware back in 1995. Now AGEIA has to convince people that games need special hardware to accelerate the Physics in games.

One thing is certain, when you use see this hardware in action you will be convinced. Just a fair warning, it will be very hard to see this hardware in action just by looking at the pictures, you need to watch the video files.

With developers such is Epic, investors such as TSMC and Bank of America, this technology should have a very bright and successful future.

[Crixx_Creww]

i think we should revamp this discussion now that hardware is ready and is being tested.

Winny , could you find links to any of these vid files that display its power?

Also , i saw mention of them waiting for content to be released.

Does this mean that the PPU wont make a difference on currently existing software?
If not, then i dont think ill be getting one.
IF it can though, i think this is the  single greatest introduction to the world of computing since...*sigh* since intel released the micro processor *sob* *i remember it like it was yesterday *so beautiful*

[W1nTry]

Will put up some more info and pics as soon as they are available, there are pics but they don't really show the beauty of these cards as its the real time physics u want to see, however the pics will in the least give u an idea of what it can do, as for current software, as of yet the only games I know of that will use it thus far are games based on the Unreal 3 engine. No current software will work with it however HL2 may be recoded like Farcry to take advantage of this new hardware.

[TriniXaeno]

glorious days ahead!

surely have to keep a good sharingan eye on this.

[W1nTry]

Ok I have found some more tech specs and some pics to debut the PPU as it were, the technical specifications are as follows:

Board Info

- Manufactured by TSMC (130nm process)
- 125 million transistors
- 182 mm² die size
- 20 watts power consumption
- 128MB GDDR3
- PCI only (PCIe cards expected further in the future)
- ASUS first board manufacturer
- May be integrated in graphics cards in the future
- Only 1 model at launch
- The cards bandwith exceeds that which can be put through a PCI bus
- The PCI and PCIe cards will be seperate
- Samples in Q3 2005
- Expected to become available in Q4 2005 (December)
- Price roughly $249 to $299
- NovodeX physics SDK/API (multi-threaded, native)
- Supports other software physics SDKs (Havok, Meqon etc.)
- No use yet for anything other than gaming (may add in future)
- The cards are bundled with a Unreal Engine 3 tech demo

Now a lil something about the pics I intend to post. There are 4 in total and they were Demos @ E3 this year that used an ATI rig I believe in conjunction with the PPU. The demos are of an Avalance, Realtime Fluids and environmental interaction.

Avalanche:
This demo showed a demo of hundreds to thousands of rock particles as they interacted with their environment, in this case the valley thru which they fall and each other. They were able to reduce or increase the # of particles on the screen and thus the level of interaction between each rock hitting the walls/floors and other MOVING rocks.

Fluid dynamics:
This demo showed different fluid interaction in REAL TIME whereby a fluid whehter it be mist, lava, fire (there were different pics but I chose this one). The fluid woud fall from the top onto a model of a car and deflect, change direction, shape etc depending on the surface it interacted with.

Environment:
This showed a simple demo of a fps and the interaction that will be possible with the PPU. Now not just certain pre-defined object (as seen in newer games such as Doom 3 and HL2) will be capable of interaction, but everythingin the room including the walls or evne the total structure as a whole. Imagine blowing up a barrel of fuel only to have the entire building or a section of that building fall on you, leading to the eventual collapse of the rest of it killing off ur squad. This will bring a whole new way of thinking to the world of the FPS.

Plane Crash:
This is just to highlight the above demo, whereby in this demo a plane had just crashed into the hanger causing mahem with every object in the hanger.

[W1nTry]

I of course must post a pic of the PPu itself. This card is manufactured by Asus and will be available in both PCI and PCIe. It was noted somewhere that the PCI bus is a bit insufficient for the amount of info that the card churns out, so for all those with PCIe they should be smiling about their upgrade. THe cards will be about 200-250USD if I didn't mention that before. Either way here;s the pic.

[Crixx_Creww]

pretty looking
woulda been awesome next to my ownaafe 6800 if it acutally worked on any software he have bleh

could yu possibly get yur hands on the videos?? we need to see it in action