Author Topic: SLI and SLI mobos  (Read 3948 times)

Offline W1nTry

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SLI and SLI mobos
« on: November 24, 2004, 11:06:55 AM »
This following are excerps from an article on Tom's Hardware. The link in case ur interested is shown below:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/2...ormance-05.html

Quote
After many fruitless attempts to get an SLI system running we found out the reason: our cards were too "old". Our models were very early NVIDIA reference samples that according to the manufacturer do not yet function properly with SLI. As these cards had not been in stores for long anyway at the time we received them, no particular importance should be attached to this matter. With the latest 6800 Ultra and GT samples SLI worked right off the bat. That of course raises the question of whether it is at all possible to later purchase a second graphics card for SLI operation, perhaps even from a different card maker. At present we are unable to answer that question.
Interesting indeed.... not promising however...

Quote
We also had big problems with the SLI motherboards. With the ASUS A8N-SLI it completely blew the BIOS every time we restarted the computer - a problem we encountered not only with our test board....The source of the problems turned out later to be a series of defective Bios components. A quick change-out made possible by the socket mount took care of the problems. After that the A8N-SLI Deluxe ran with no problems and at a good speed.
So much for all the hype in that other string about this board.... but wait they are not alone...

Quote
The MSI K8N Diamond, on the other hand, had major memory module problems with SLI operation. Our Kingston HyperX, set up for 2/2/2/6 DDR 400 timings, caused constant crashing.....Only after setting the timing down to 2.5/3/3/7 did the MSI K8N Diamond run stably with SLI in operation. Our test sample also appears to have a problem concerning memory bandwidth. Even with 2/2/2/6 timings, Sandra displayed a memory bandwidth of only 4.9 GB/s, corresponding to only DDR 333!
Not good at all...

Quote
We also had to lower the memory timings for SLI operation somewhat for the ASUS board as well, as crashes occurred here too with 2/2/2/6 timings. With 2/3/3/6 timings the board then ran stably. We anticipate and hope that these problems are a result of the motherboards' revision status and will no longer occur with models that reach the stores. ASUS and MSI jostled each other over the past few weeks to be the first to introduce a working SLI motherboard. Under such conditions, problems are pre-programmed. What is striking though is that most of the instability occurred only in SLI operation.
If yuh think this bad so far, wait and see what next!

Quote
After several benchmark tests we noticed some relatively slow performance in two of our games. After turning on SLI HUD in the driver we saw that SLI was not active during these games. Even our efforts to force SLI operation through the expanded driver settings had no effect. After talking with NVIDIA we learned the cause: SLI is not available with some games. NVIDIA has so-called SLI Profiles for games that are defined in the driver. The driver recognizes the game via application detection and executes the SLI mode (split or balancing) designated for that profile. If no SLI profile exists for a game, there is no SLI rendering. It is not possible to force SLI mode or generate your own profile. According to NVIDIA however the driver already contains over 50 profiles for games running with SLI. For newer titles this therefore means that SLI system owners have to wait for a new driver. But even then there is no gaurantee
GASP!!!!! WDF... wait did they just say my game may not be supported by updated drivers??? can u spell refund? wait what is this:

Quote
NVIDIA has said it intends to set up a dedicated SLI homepage listing all games that are SLI-compatible. There is also supposed to be a list to be found there of games not compatible with SLI. We'll be glad when we see that.
I feel so much better now, knowing I can see what games I may want to buy but aren't SLI ready so I can hit a pissy fit prior to gettnig teh game anyway! Now for some technicalities...

Quote
NVIDIA thought up a trick for the nForce 4 chipset. When operating a graphics card, all 16 lanes are available to the slot. In SLI operation however the 16 lanes are simply distributed among the two x16 slots. So the PEG slots are only operated with x8 PCIe....In practice that has no negative effect on performance, as the x8 PCIe bandwidth still corresponds to AGP 8x performance.
Ok this is not so bad... well at least for now.. wait till u need 16x by 2. Now for some power issues...

Quote
according to ASUS problems can arise when using an ATX power supply with 20-pin main power connector with 2 graphics cards. In the manual, ASUS asks for an ATX 2.0 power supply with 24-pin main power connector despite the additional power connector....ASUS recommends a 450Watts or even better PSU, to drive a SLI system with Athlon FX 55 and GeForce 6800 Ultra - which means at least 281 Watts just for these items!
WOW.... I am not sure having an 1ntel Pr3scott system with SLI will be a good thing, Can u spell 300+ Watts?? talk about a rise in ur lightbill!!! Now some more mobo issues...

Quote
The Northbridge cooler remains the only downer. Experience has shown that these components have only a limited lifespan. A purely passive cooling system would make more sense.
Shame on u A$us, you should know better!!!! Now some disagreements.

Quote
According to information provided by MSI, using a 20-pin ATX power cable is possible however as long as at least 18A are provided along with the 12V power supply. These reveals are in opposite of what we heard from ASUS, which claim that a SLI system needs much more power than that. We'll have a closer look at that and report our findings.
So who do we listen to really???

Since I am kinda limited to 1 pic per post I will forego the inclusion of the benchmark pics,  instead just check the link I included above. The cards used were: X800XT PE, 6800GT, 6800 Ultra, 6800GT SLI and 6800 Ultra SLI. The programs they used to test were:
3dMark 2005 (from the looks approx 40% faster overall)
UT2004 (actually underperforms the competition save in 1600x1200 w/ 4xAA and 8x AF)
Call of Duty (approx 10-15% faster)
Doom3 High Quality (no advantage at low res, up to 50% at high res and with AA and AF)  
FarCry (15% faster at low res and up to 40% at high res)
Sims 2 (5% faster overall at best)
Flight simulator 2004 (underperforms, though it is worth noting this is one of those games SLI does NOT work on.)
Battlefield Vietnam (same at low res and up to 40% at high res w/ AA&AF)
Half-Life 2 (it even underperforms the 6800Ultra SINGLE card at low res,  up to 100% faster at 1600x1200 w/ 4xAA and 8xAF in THG8 demo ONLY).
 
Some performance analysis:


Quote
Even the initial performance comparisons make clear that SLI requires a very powerful CPU. In SLI operation the GeForce 6800 GT and Ultra cards, fast in their own right, really show their stuff and even speedy CPUs are not able to supply the cards with data fast enough. The true strength of SLI can only be seen in high resolutions of 1280x1024, or even better 1600x1200 with FSAA and anisotropic filters, i.e. in scenarios that place today's graphics cards under maximum load. In lower resolutions without FSAA and AF, SLI offers few advantages. With some games, SLI operation even has a slowing effect (UT 2004), possibly caused by the increased administrative burden that SLI operation places upon the CPU. We did, however, detect a decline in performance with SLI in Flight Simulator 2004 as well versus a single card, despite the fact that FS2004 cannot run at all in SLI mode, or put another way: even if only one card of an SLI system is operating, performance falls below that of a computer with just a single graphics card installed. Not by much, but by a measurable amount.
But there seems to be a silver lining here...

Quote
Both with and without SLI, the CPU is not able to exhaust the graphics cards' performance - the cards are therefore CPU-limited. The more powerful the CPU, the higher the performance.....In shader-intensive games like Doom3 and Farcry, the SLI performance boost outbalances the drawbacks

Now a shot at @TI, even with an X800XT and an X700XT cards installed simultaneously only one card can be used as the menu has issues and does not allow for tweaking both the X700 and the X800. Nv1dia on the other hand can support 4 monitors however not a 4screen scroll (i.e. one desktop across all 4 monitors) u are stuck with 1 desktop per 2 monitors. Only Matrox currently supports 3 monitors and 1 desktop. NOw for some cool stuff...

Quote
And lastly, one final test we just couldn't say no to. Even back in the days of Voodoo2, users had a choice of whether they would rather play 3D games via graphics card or a separate Voodoo2 card. So why not deploy a Radeon X800 XT PE alongside a GeForce 6800 Ultra
IT is possible to run both X800 and 6800 simultaneously, abeit with some tweaking of the settings as if not properly configured only one card will run games.

In conclusion:
Quote
It was to be expected: an SLI computer with GeForce 6800 Ultra or GT beats everything for performance! The performance reserves of an SLI system are tremendous. Even with an Athlon64 4000+ the cards almost always have to wait on the CPU.

Phew that was long... so who's going SLI????                    

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« on: November 24, 2004, 11:06:55 AM »

Offline Rampage

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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2004, 01:04:40 PM »
i knew it woulda be crappy, i was telling baego that yesterday self. now i have a article to show he mc. the first set of boards an thing go never be good, buggy etc. men doesnt listen...ignorancy idmc.                      

Offline Czar

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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2004, 02:06:09 PM »
I strongly suggest you take Tom's Harware with a grain of salt...they've been becoming more and more biased over the years...

I read 3 articles on SLI thus far, AnandTech, [H]ardOCP and Tom's...

Tom's seems to be the only one with some wacky experiences...

Check out the Anandtech article for yourself...their UT2004 benchmarks show a totally different story to Tom's...

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2284

Most articles have shown that SLI looks very promising...                    

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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2004, 10:12:16 AM »
I have to agree with Czar to some extent in that by reading different sites u gather a sense of bias towards different brands. Some sites use A64's only in their gaming tests, other P4's some swear by Nv1dia others @TI... so each of these sites i'd say is to be taken with a pinch a salt regardless of who you think is lesss biased. They each have their merits I say, read as many as u can, check customer reviews on site when they come out and base ur opinions on the summation of these. Personally I hope to get an SLI board eventually, so I hope they are good.                    

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2004, 07:33:28 AM »
Check this out... things you don't see everyday                    

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2004, 07:33:28 AM »

Offline TriniXaeno

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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2004, 11:08:35 PM »
kick brass boy czar.

that's right, don't just close your mind in the face of a negative post/article.

Look around, read and truly understand the scene first.

It takes some effort but gives the greatest reward!!

Ironically, the biggest issue for me going with SLI is not any technical issues, but price for these components.

Anyone remember the Voodoo 2 SLI mode of yesteryear? Any word on the Alienware SLI rig? I heard their stuff is proprietary.                    

Offline Rampage

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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2004, 01:47:38 AM »
there go be technical issues no matter what oui.

price is another drama. i rather see the issues that others having than just to ignore them. that negative article as you claim it to be, might infact tell you some of the real problems in de thing. compatability problems etc. only a fool would ignore them stuff. das why when you buying a product, you does read de good stuff last oui, go straight to the issues people have with the product so you know what you getting yuhself in to. i know many people who operate it like that. das why it nice to have 1 or 2 articles that go show some issues :), who knows???when you finally get your sli you might be running into them same problems. gs sb gs sb. it doh matter if voodoo had sli, it doh matter if athlon have sse, etc. what matters is that sli for dem cards now come out and there go be trouble, just watch, wait an see :). de first line of stuff does always be de wuss, is like the company mass testing, to release better versions in the future. but you keep bringing back up the voodoo2 sli which is a different card, different mobo, made for different os, processor, etc and less compatability things to deal with. all that they have in common is de idea, das it. anyway i've said what i had to say, i done  :D                      

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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2004, 11:42:18 AM »
you don't ignore it, you balance it with positive reviews.

If you read some of the negative reviews for SOF2, you would not even bother to play it.

Luckily, we did and it was a boss game. Yes it had some bugs and issues but what doesn't.

Same applied for SLI (original). It was not perfect but it kicked ass in many ways.

Same for this SLI before us today. That is the point. Read and understand all the views and make yuh decision on that. Don't just dismiss it on the first sign of negativity.

It seems SLI is held back by the processor. Even the fastest Athlon 64 4000+ could not provide these beasts with data to satisfy their hunger.

Wishful thinking would be games designed for multiple processors that also supported SLI. Dual Athlon 64 and Dual 6800GT. Ultra Performance iymc!

Might need a separate T&Tec powerstation for your machine though. lol

                     

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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2004, 12:05:56 PM »
baego buy it for meh nah, lemme test it out :D :D. go need new mobo, powersupply, generator, processor and 2 videocards. in other words, when you win de lotto buy it for meh :D                    

Offline cereal_killer

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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 01:31:10 PM »
i was wonderin could u use the sli with a agp and pci-e card?                    

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« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2004, 01:06:55 AM »
lol
ent, if we win lotto, everybody gettin sponsor!

cereal, sweat buss @ agp + pci-e

two PCI-E = entry price for this party.

just be glad in nvidia's flavour of SLI you won't need 3 video cards.
When 3dfx did it, you needed 1 video card for 2D and two for the SLI 3D processing.

Talk about expensive!

*Baego buys lotto ticket
                     

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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2004, 03:50:32 PM »
The following will have you doing a doubletake on getting an SLI board....                    

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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2004, 09:41:56 PM »
More fire! Cos we cuttin it wit 2x550w PSU...1 for d mobo, HDD & burner etc and a whole other jes for d dual gfx beasts....mihahhahahha :D                    

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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2004, 12:17:17 PM »
SLI is an utter waste for this generation. Check back in 2 years when we have decent dual core cpus and 1000W PSUs by default.                    

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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2004, 01:04:03 PM »
*Rampage agrees with synth on this one :D

weak sli hb                    

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« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2004, 03:17:03 PM »
NOw come on guys, I mean seriously how much power did u expect? Rade0n 9800's and Gef0rce 5900's have been consuming over 80Watts so what did u expect a next generation, LARGER core, LARGER card to do? then multiply that by 2? I mean I too have reconsidered and think SLI is a bit too expensive and power consuming but, ppl who buy this not really gonna worry bout power and price when ti comes down to it. Heck when I was thinking about it I was saying to hell with price. I could get teh second card in a 6 months... the power is what really kinda has me second thinking...                    

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« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2004, 03:22:36 PM »
Quote
the power is what really kinda has me second thinking...
*Czar mumbles about buying shares in T&TEC :D :P
                     

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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2004, 10:39:37 PM »
but it will beat one 6600GT

and that's the point.

More than one = some.

1+1 = ] than 1

SLI has been about reaching levels of performance unattainable by mere mortals. Not about power consumption or practicality.

Affordability is not something you consider at this level.

Case in point made by the breaking of the world record by the Dual 6800 on the Athlon 64 4000+.

Pace in yuh waist!!!!

Lihixxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                    

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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2004, 07:50:59 AM »
True that performance was the key I agree, however for it to be profitable it has to be marketed to the less fortunate who can't afford that kinda power all the time... that I think is where ppl like me and alot of other gamers fit... in the middle... upgrading my PSU just to get a new card to boost perforamance is expensive... added to that, that its supposed to be a viable upgrade path to extend the life of ur gaming rig (AND buy more Nv1dia cards), with that knida power it become arguable that anyone save extreme gamers with wods of cash to blow will buy it. And they are pushing it BIG TIME. YES its to keep the performance crown, YES it to keep @TI at bay, but considering they are making an nforce 5 for the P4 which will apparently go into production Q1 of 2005, and D3ll is happy to see this happening... I think that it has to be more price performance oriented, wouldn't you think?

PS here is a ling to an arcitle on the nforce 5 for the P4
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19997                    

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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2004, 02:56:47 PM »
well you're right except for one thing.

It is not meant for the mass market but it influences the mass market.

The majority of buyers want to be on the "winning" team. If Nvidia can boast top notch performance, they will gain positive mind share and increase sales across their entire product line.

That makes it imperative that they have a flagship that owns the competition in the benchmarks. In this case, that is Dual 6800GT in SLI mode. Holding the world record in 3d performance strengthens their brand.


The mass market strategy from Nvidia is the 6600GT. I can tell you now it will be incredibly succesful!                    

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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2004, 02:56:47 PM »

 


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