Rise of the Machines: Epic battle of the ages between PCs, Consoles and Mobiles

[TriniXaeno]

It has begun.....

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/knights-of-the-old-republic-coming-to-ipad?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook

[Spazosaurus]

Very insightful perspectives from a few people "in the know"

http://www.androidcentral.com/talk-mobile/can-mobile-gaming-kill-consoles

Their views aligns well with our own thinking on the forums.

[Arcmanov]

The timing of this article couldn't be more relevant...

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/31/forget-the-xbox-one-and-ps-4-the-most-powerful-gaming-device-is-your-pc/


I tend to agree wholeheartedly...but how will I play Killzone? 





Samsung Galaxy Note 2 | Omega v16 | SwiftKey | Tapatalk 4 Beta

[TriniXaeno]

wow Awesome, that article/video flushed out the issue quite nicely.

Agreed....definitely the same sentiments shared on this very forum recently.



Good to see that we aren't the only ones ventilating the topic.

Will tackle that second link arc posted when I get back from the gym

[MessiaaH]

I agree with the men who say consoles, nor pcs, going anywhere. Wyatt u see d part where he say PC actually grown?

It have room for all 3, mobile don't have to supplant consoles. They can both live happily.

No need to say I agree wholeheartedly with what arcman post.

Take Two:

What's the dark side to mobile gaming? - Talk Mobile


Very interesting graph here:



It only take pc one year to pass back console, but this time around PC gone bout they business oui lolol.
In a short 1-2 years the pc would be dramatically more powerful than a console. A low end PC go be as powerful as a ps4 loll. PC ftw yes.

[TriniXaeno]

It have room for all 3, mobile don't have to supplant consoles. They can both live happily.

It doesn't have to supplant them but it will.

That's the rub.

Consoles didn't have to supplant arcades but they did.

[MessiaaH]

It have room for all 3, mobile don't have to supplant consoles. They can both live happily.

It doesn't have to supplant them but it will.

That's the rub.

Consoles didn't have to supplant arcades but they did.

Consoles didn't have to supplant PCs, and they didn't. Loll.

Arcade is a unique situation. Console supplanting PCs is a closer argument to mobile supplanting everything, and after years of duking it out, PC still going strong, and even achieve much higher rapid growth than it ever did, in terms of Technology and quality of games.

Arcades had too many things wrong with it. I really don't think it applies to this argument.

Arcades was never as widespread and a big money maker as PCs, it was easy for big players like Nintendo and sony to get rid of arcade. Yuh talking mobiles going up against all d major tech giants in d world. It's a complete different landscape, so leave arcade out.

Mobile vs ....Microsoft, Sony, Dell, Toshiba, Nvidia, Amd, Asus, Acer, Logitech, Razer.

It's the reason PC still going strong, consoles wasn't enough to topple the collective might of that group. And thus, PC gaming has grown after the dust clear.

Seriously, who want to gone stand up in ah arcade infront some box at inconvenient times to play d same game they could play home, at any time, at any hr? Nobody. That's why they dead so fast. Didn't take long atal to kill arcade. Consoles offered very significant and dramatic benefits. Along with totally new genres that weren't possible in arcade. Mobile at this point just trying to match what consoles already doing, offering nothing new. What new about mobile is touch, and mobile actually trying to get closer to non-touch games. It just doesn't relate. Completely different battle going on here. Stop pulling d arcade card.

[TriniXaeno]

Lovely graph. +1

I would be interested in seeing mobile tech superimposed on it with some extrapolation for the next decade or so. That would be epic.

As for the console/PC argument....if you ignore your history....you are doomed to repeat it.

The console has already supplanted the PC. We have spoken about that ad infinitum. You keep confusing the current death throes of the PC platform with some sort of renaissance.

This new console generation marks the end of the PC era. I guarantee you that. Fact: There are more console gamers than PC gamers. That trend is increasing day by day and it is not going to reverse.

Sure, there will be the pockets of niche PC activity (just as there are pockets of Arcades still alive to this day) but the gaming landscape will be strongly skewed in the direction of the consoles who will in turn make way for the rise of the mobile platform.

Microsoft is smart enough to know that mobile is where the action is at down the road. In fact, every single big name you mentioned there is already on the mobile bandwagon. From Nvidia down to even Razer.

Everyone knows it.

It is inevitable. If they don't stake a claim on the mobile action they will become irrelevant.

There are real technology issues preventing mobile from surpassing consoles / PCs today which will soon be solved.

A simple one, for example, is connecting your phone to the TV to use as a console. An MHL cable is hardly common place.

Technology like WiFi Display/ Miracast is set to make connecting your phone to the TV a simple task. One that doesn't even require cables.

If you're buying a TV in the next 5 years, it will come ready with this tech built in. One problem down.



Looks like a gaming console to me.  (Note who is pushing this.....drum roll.....Nvidia)

[MessiaaH]

You say console supplant pc as if all d PC gamers stop playing pc and went and buy consoles. That is not d case.
Growth of one thing don't always mean downfall of another. Consoles went after ppl who never even played a pc game. Take the Wii audience for instance. D majority of buyers never even play video games. So more console gamers existing does not mean pc get supplant. It have room for both. Consoles brought alto more gamers into the world.

Every stat, every tech blogger, everybody saying PCs are better now than they ever was before, but some how u seeing raw facts as supplanting?

Yes it have a pocket of acades, but what games in them? They not relevant, there is nothing new there.
Every single crossplatform game made IS available for PC, why u keep comparing arcade to PC is beyond me loll.

Everything about PC gaming is better now, than they ever were. D tech leap over consoles is higher. The rate of tech growth is higher, the quality of games is higher, the number of titles available is higher. Everything seems to suggest progress, growth, even when compared to the hey days of PC gaming, but in ur mind that is defeat? I don't buy into that at all.

Even d very video posted above, d man say by all rights PC suppose to be dead 5 years ago loll.

Things like this for mobile is great, hell, I looking forward to freaking this one:


But it is a far cry from replacing a console/pc.

And in closing, I can name hundreds, if not thousands of crossplatform titles that are Not available for arcade.
Name 1 crossplatform title that not available for PC. The number of PC gamers did not shrink, d number of console gamers just grow. D game play stats others posted in various threads also supports this. Facts is facts. And based on d facts, PC gaming far from dead, its actually doing extremely well.

And right now the fact is. Mobile is technologically inferior to everything else. Your argument based on assumptions of what u think mite happen. Which is what we go have to wait to see.

[Arcmanov]

[MessiaaH]

O, and if we go to put mobile on that graph it would be invisible.

Tegra 4 = 74GigaFlops
PS4 = 2 TeraFlops

Yes, that's 0.074 vs 2.0
Or 2000 vs 74

Loll.

The power difference between a console and current mobile hardware even after all d advancements is unthinkable.

Mobile tech would have to be improved by a factor of 27 just to match consoles that available this year.
And we not even talking PCs yet llolol.

Unless NVidia transport some tech from d future and use it in todays world, I don't see how mobile phones could come even remotely close to consoles anytime soon. Let alone PCs. I repeat, a 27x jump in performance is required to match a PS4.

[TriniXaeno]

I think the real challenge you and I are having here Messiaah is the definition of supplant.

Arcade machines did not die. They got even more powerful as the years went by but still.....were irrelevant due to the overwhelming number of console gamers. Let me be clear, irrelevant in my opinion.

A lot of big arcade titles are still released on that platform FIRST. Consoles get a version months if not a year later. Street Fighter IV, Tekken 6 , Persona 4, etc..

Here are the specs for one of the latest arcade cabinets.

Taito Type X³ [edit]
OS: Windows Embedded Standard 7 64bit / Windows XP Embedded SP3 32bit
CPU: Intel Core i5 2400
Chipset: Intel Q67 express
Graphic: AMD RADEON HD 6770
Sound: 7.1ch HD AUDIO
Memory: DDR3 2GB
Storage: HDD 160GB (2.5 inches)
USB: USB3.0 × 2 group + USB2.0 × 2 group
Network: 1Gbit/s × 2 port
Serial: 1 port
Power Supply: 600W
In addition, in Type X³, hardware configuration changes are possible for each game title, following the lineup is as an optional part.[4]

CPU: Intel Core i3/2120, Core i7/2600
Graphic: NVIDIA GeForce GTX560Ti
Memory: Up to 16GB
Storage: Up to 3TB HDD
SSD: 16GB

Arcade machines are STILL superior to consoles in terms of performance. (Just as PCs are still superior to Consoles)

That does not change the fact that when you compare the figures, consoles vastly outnumber arcade machines.

That is what I mean by supplant. Not that the arcade machines stopped progressing technologically. Nor that they stopped having good games or releases.

It is that they are now playing second fiddle in terms of the number of players on the platform.

This is already the case with consoles vs the PC. Can we agree on that definition? There are vastly larger number of players on consoles now than on PCs.

Probably 5 to 1.

In 5 years time after the marketing run of xbox one and the PS4, I would expect that gap to increase to about 10 consoles gamers to every 1 PC gamer.

lemme hear you now.

@ Arc...but is death throes I typed, dunno what you talking bout, lol

[MessiaaH]

No wyatt, I do NOT agree.

There is a direct relation in the rise of consoles and the downfall of arcades. Consoles did not just grow, arcades SHRUNK. you said there are still pockets of arcades. Back in the day it had 2-3 arcade box on EVERY street, in EVERY palor, anywhere u look had ah SF and Tekken box. They started to loose too much money, it was no feasible, man had to fling way them box. Arcades decreased, it took a major plummet, it was literally destroyed by the console. The few arcades that exists is d bigger ones, that offer more interactive experiences, like d car racers etc, that make enough money to keep afloat. So that's 1. point, consoles did not just grow, arcades plummeted.

2. There has been negative growth and expansion of game titles in arcades. I said I can name thousands of crossplatform titles that not available in the arcade. All arcade have is yuh fighters and yuh racers. It have no expansion of available game titles, quite the opposite, some of d titles it used to have back in the day get replaced by kids games....

3. Truth and infact wyatt, the arcade box is NOT! more powerful than a console, the GPU in the Xbox One and PS4 is more powerful , by a significant margin I mite add, than the arcade box specs you listed. So from a technological standpoint, NO arcades not more powerful and not going to ever pass consoles in teams of raw power at this point.

Those 3 points combined is my definition of Supplant.
Here's a dictionary definition:

Supplant : To displace and substitute for (another):
The consoles has quite literally displaced and substituted the arcades. Men stop going to arcades to play consoles.

When it comes to the PC that is NOT the case. Consoles did not supplant PC, it supplemented it.

By Contrast,

1: PC Gaming did not plummet, it has grown
2: There has been radical growth and expansion of available PC titles. One of d issues I had with PC gaming back in the day is the fact that adventure titles were few and far between, it was mainly just FPS and RTS that's all we got. Now im so happy as a PC gamer to have access to ALLL genres on the pc. and not just the throw away titles either, I talking d really high production value Triple A blockbuster titles. So there has been not just normal, but MAJOR expansion of available titles on the PC.
3: We all know PC is more powerful than consoles and will continue to be for years to come.

You seem to want to simplify the thing down to just 1 number. More of 1 thing = Death / Supplant of another.
It's not that black and white, its not that simple, and I not agreeing to that definition at all.
If more console gamers = death of arcade. Then why it aint = the death of PCs up to now?

Also, by that definition, mobile has ALREADY supplanted consoles because there are significantly more mobile gamers in the world NOW than there are consoles. So I not agreeing with your definition, there are a lot of other factors to consider to make that claim, I just happen to name the 3 major ones I looking at.



And you want to lob arcade into this argument? lol, hell no, completely and utterly different situation.
Arcades have been properly and significantly supplanted:



Since 2002...........

And in closing:

The Xbox One / PS4 is 2700% more powerful than the latest available mobile phone. 

[Arcmanov]

Couldn't 'ninja edit' your way out of that one eh...? 

The pic doesn't lie. 





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[TriniXaeno]

3. Truth and infact wyatt, the arcade box is NOT! more powerful than a console, the GPU in the Xbox One and PS4 is more powerful , by a significant margin I mite add, than the arcade box specs you listed. So from a technological standpoint, NO arcades not more powerful and not going to ever pass consoles in teams of raw power at this point.

The specs of the arcade box I posted is more powerful than the xbox 360 and PS3 (which are it's competitors)

In fact, it is more powerful than most PCs on the planet today.

The PS4 and Xbox One are not on the market yet so don't try comparing that current generation arcade specs to those yet to be released consoles. Nice try.

Fact: Arcade box is superior to consoles today...yet it has been whipped all the same.

Let me restate for you.....consoles have vastly more gamers than the PC. (I'll look around for a graph to confirm)

That is what I mean by supplant....consoles have supplanted the PC as the preferred choice by the gaming masses.

Comprende?

[TriniXaeno]

This graph from Arstechnica (NPD data source) painted a very different picture of the console vs pc revenue a few years ago.

Showing the same downward death spiral that plagued the Arcade.

I find it very hard to believe the situation flipped on its head over night.

Will continue looking for more reliable data.

Apparently it is very difficult to piece together since digtal sales are being closely guarded by those who have the data (steam, origin, blizzard, etc...) Probably for tax evasion purposes.

That is only going to get murkier as consoles move to the digital distribution model as well.

[MessiaaH]

No, i don't comprede jack lol.
u post d specs for a current day arcade box, to be compared to 8 year old consoles?
Xbox One and PS4 not available right now, but it is going to be available in 2013, and it going to outperform every arcade box for d next 5 years.

Also, u pick 1 point out of 3 to defend yuh arguments? noob.

And no, consoles didn't supplant no pc as no choice by no gaming masses. Fact is d gaming " masses" u speak of, never existed in the hey days of pc, it's a new market, NEW gamers. d world NEVER had all them PC gamers. Nobody eh get supplanted. Consoles created a market where non existed. As mobile is doing now. Right now, the NEW gaming "Masses" are ALREADY on mobile. So tell me why Consoles supplant pc right now. And mobile aint supplant consoles yet? By your logic, mobile has already supplanted consoles.

Again, is not black and white, 1 number vs another, there are multiple things involved, which 3 is what I list. and there are MORE. to water down d argument to say, it have more of 1 type of ppl which means d others have been supplanted is ludicrous.

Yuh not getting away with that atal atal. lol.

Again, PC gaming has ......wait for it..... GROWN! How could something that has been INCREASED be Supplanted? lol.

And I don't find what you posted above hard to believe atal, console was d "new" thing, and ushered in a whole wave of new gamers, but whiles consoles had to remain d same, PC's kept advancing, improving, etc etc. (That not happening with arcade, arcade has been stagnated since consoles come on the scene). Is 2 completely different situations I tell u.

And Yuh doh seem to be getting the end point I trying to make though, so I took d liberty of trying some visual aid this time:



I had to stretch out the graph long because mobiles was not showing up lol.

[W1nTry]

Let me walk the line here, first off I think ppl in here are just sticking to their guns and not acknowledging the POV of each other, but that's imho. That aside just like I had previously gazed into the crystal ball in a similar thread about the unified platform that is MS, how about this:

I know everyone has spat words of doom and gloom for the Nvidia Shield, however I read an interesting article that had one key point  that I didn't realize about the shield, it can STREAM GAMES from a PC.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2272854/computex-nvidia-shows-off-project-shield-production-model
After reading that it struck me that the shield is more of a proof of concept than necessarily a successful product on its own. However now in line with our conversations here and the indisputable fact that overall PC sales are declining:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrymagid/2013/04/10/idc-pc-sales-in-steep-decline/
This type of news is all over everyones quarterly results, HP, DEll, Intel, AMD, etc. So one has to factor that whilst PC gamers might be on the rise, the OVERALL PC market is on the decline. There WILL BE a convergence point and the fact that smartphones/tablets and ultra portables are outselling and out growing the traditional PC markets is something noone in here has factored in as far as I recall.

Now back to walking the line. I doubt that the PC market will evaporate and for that matter I doubt the console will either. However I do believe their relative roles and form factor will change dramatically. What's wrong with a home server *coughs console-PC* (if yal recall MS has filed several PATENTS on multipurpose consoles) that sits in the living room, that STREAMS full HD HIGH res (4k even) games from the console aka home server aka PC to your handheld device OR your Smart TV, OR your tablet, etc etc.
Nvidia shield is a proof of concept that you could stream High res games to a less capable unit (a handheld or in the future a phone, or your phone as a controller and the TV, you should be now see where I am going with this?)

In this line, neither consoles, nor pcs nor mobiles fit the traditional roles you all are arguing over the death of, in fact its a unified platform where each device exists in a certain role/space but the SERVICE spans all of them. In this line neither consoles, nor PCs not handhelds win, but rather WE the CONSUMER wins.

I don't see any reason what I am describing isn't exaclty what MS, Sony, Nintendo, etc are after, hell the Wii U is (like the shield) a proof of concept with its main processing unit and 'dumb' screens. So why not let tech move forward, 'mobiles' have more built in brains for better (out of the office or home aka range of HD content streaming server aka PC) mobile games, but when you reach home, office, BAR for all I can, you can connect to the content provider (could be a pay as you game Xbox live service tied to your ID) and play your HD content/games on ur friends 4k TV or put up the superbowl sunday via your mobile onto all the screens in your house.
I think the idea of 'just the consoles' or 'just the mobile' or 'just the PC' is antiquated and we're arguing semantics. my $2.43

[TriniXaeno]

Messiah is straggling with semantics (always has). If he would seek to understand a person's true meaning rather than his interpretation the conversation would be much shorter but a helluva lot less fun. Lol

Good point w1n and I whole heartedly agree.

That is the first stage in the evolution.

I do believe that as time progresses a larger and larger percent of the gaming population will use just their mobile to game.

[MessiaaH]

I agree with Wintry.

Wintry, I never claim mobile will die or anything of the sort. I actually say, yes, Mobiles will continue to grow and improve at a dramatic rate. What I was not agreeing with is the fact that it going to "replace" consoles, or "replace" PC's. It have room for all 3. and the picture u paint is exactly where I see things going. All devise will work to supplement each other. The growth and rise of 1 does not mean the death of another. So I agree totally with what you saying. It's been what I've been saying all along, just I been arguing harder on the side of PC, and Console.

PC sales mite be on the decline, but so too was pc gaming.as wyatt posted, from 1998 to 2007, pc gaming was looking like it was in rel trouble, and what happened? It has boomed since then. Because the tech giants in the world was not about to just let pc gaming die. The same thing is going to happen with the current decline in PC sales.

Yes it going down, but Microsoft has already taken steps to resolve the issue, so has all the other manufactures, by building better smarter pcs, trying to get into touch, and trying to bridge the gap between what considered mobile, and what considered a PC. The work is already on the way to resolve that issue. and in the future I suspect the numbers will be very similar to what consoles and pcs gaming looks like now. For the next year or 2 again, pc will fall even more. But moving forward, you will see PC sales (whatever form the pc is in) rise again.

The strength with PC is its so adaptable and dynamic. If a new tech comes on the market to challenge it, it not taking much on PC makers part, to adapt, learn, and come again. Arcade's had no such intercessor on their behalf. But the tech giants of the world is very reliant on the success of the pc. Right now plenty blaming game going on etc etc. But im quite sure everything will be just fine, once men finish adapt.

Also i'd like to add, that whiles PC sales ARE in fact dropping, the marketshare dominated by Microsoft is so huge, they can afford to drop for years, and still the mobile marketshare would not be able to take over. Good thing is, MS not just sitting on they ass this time around. Everything will be fine.

I'm looking forward to a time with much more powerful computing, new ways to compute, new things to be served up by my pc. Whiles combining that with powerful mobile computing that integrates with it all. It stray ah little form the gaming argument and more into a holistic view of tech in the future, but I guess it's all related.

And @ wyatt, I also believe that as time progress a larger and larger percentage of the population WILL use their mobiles to game (I know ppl who never play game in they life rocking angry birds HARD), what I don't believe is, current console/pc gamers will pack away they PS4/Xbox/PC in order to do it.

...I run out of ways to represent just how dramatically underpowered a mobile device is compared to console/pc for gaming...lol.

Edit:
And wyatt, please do remember, when the pc was in trouble a few years back, I was one of the few men who refuse to accept defeat and argued hard in favor of pc, when d whole internet was saying consoles go kill pc. 5 years later, PC gaming doing better. History has proven my theories right. Is too much money to loose, too much jobs, too much industries, too many factories, too much at stake, for things to play out any other way.