Windows 8

[TriniXaeno]

You contradicting yourself

Linux already won in the mobile space...where Microsoft has been a player for years.

Their deep pockets didn't help them there.

Linux needed a big push from a major player.....and that player came in the form of Google.

Google is no stranger to taking on Microsoft. Their email service, Gmail has beaten or is on par with hotmail depending on which article you read. That is no small accomplishment.

@ phoenix

The same is true for Android users. They just buy a phone or a tablet. They don't know that they are paying for an OS. Nor do the vast majority of them even know its Linux.

The desktop space (home user market) is dying.

The mobile space is exploding. So like I said before, the desktop market maybe a moot point soon enough with thinner devices taking the forefront in households the world over.

@ messiaah I never touted linux winning at the enterprise level. As said before, I don't expect MS to lose their pole position there anytime soon for reasons stated above. On that we firmly agree.

I can buy into the Apple being seen as a threat. The Ipad has strong competition in the tablet space from Android in the form of Amazon's Kindle Fire HD

Which I predict will outsell the latest version of Apple's flagship tablet.

Flooding the world with even more linux goodness. Again, we see another major player taking up the linux brand and running with it.

I expect this trend to continue. They are aiming their sights squarely on the consumer. (again, not the enterprise)


Oh and just let me add....I'm not the only insane person thinking Ubuntu is viable as a desktop alternative.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/canonical_pitches_ubuntu_1210_perfect_alternative_windows_8

Have a read of that.

I use the word viable very cautiously.....to be clear...at the price of Windows 8, I would not choose Ubuntu over the Microsoft offering. It's just too cheap now to put a user through the "gotcha's" of linux.

At the old Windows 7 pricing scheme....oh yes, it would be solid consideration.

[TriniXaeno]

On an unrelated note....where is the Windows Phone OS on this chart?

Don't tell me its lumped into "other"?

Android making some massive progress on this.

Didn't realize that IOS was so ahead of the game though. That is still a ton of ground to cover.

Are these numbers legit?

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt, lets get 1 thing clear, Linux is Not Android.

2. This whole conversation is based on men using linux as they home OS. Then all of a sudden we reach back to the de-facto android argument. Linux as a home OS will never succeed unless the PC Makers run with it. And yes, more and more ppl going mobile, that includes laptops.
I dont know a single person who own's an ipad that doesn't also own a pc.

Tablets are content consumption devices, not productivity devices, Which is why MS still have a strangle hold on d market despite the number of android devices sold, which when compared to d number of PCs sold is night and day.

Saying android is linux is like saying Windows Phone 8 is Windows Pro. Not becuase it built ontop d same core means it's the same.  And android has been struggling to compete against apple in d tablet space in any tangable form, because quite plainly, android on a tablet sucks!

Apple has had no competition in the tablet space for a while, the Windows 8 line of slates aiming to change that. Which is what prompted the MS Surface.

Android has the mobile phone market based on reasons phoenix give. But it cannot remotely approach PC to have anybody worried about it.

And like i said before, the whole discussion was based on men using Linux as they home OS.
Which makes absolutely no sense to me what so ever hense my laughing at the prospect.

And like i said in the beginning, we coudl go back and fort all day. In the end, it going to end up just like i said. Men who using linux still going to continue using it, and i'm going to continue laughing at the thought of a man watching a linux disc, putting it in he home pc, pressing install, and proceeding to setup a home network with that.

And i draw the example of windows phone becuase it doesnt matter how much money you have, or how innovative a product is, in the PC and Phone industry, you need Manufacturer and Carrier support to succeed, that's just the nature of the world. And Linux is not getting that by a long shot.
MS just have a shitpile of money they can use to keep hammering at it until they do. (e.g. Xbox 1)

Now enough about that hot garbage named linux, how bout we get the topic back on track with conversations of Windows 8...i'll let you have the last go then we can move on.

[TriniXaeno]

Don't try to play semantics here to escape the point being made.

Definition of Linux:

Linux (i/ˈlɪnəks/ lin-əks[6][7] or /ˈlɪnʊks/ lin-uuks)[8][9][10] is a Unix-like computer operating system assembled under the model of free and open source software development and distribution. The defining component of Linux is the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released 5 October 1991 by Linus Torvalds.[11][12]
Linux was originally developed as a free operating system for Intel x86-based personal computers. It has since been ported to more computer hardware platforms than any other operating system. It is a leading operating system on servers and other big iron systems such as mainframe computers and supercomputers:[13][14][15][16] more than 90% of today's 500 fastest supercomputers run some variant of Linux,[17] including the 10 fastest.[18] Linux also runs on embedded systems (devices where the operating system is typically built into the firmware and highly tailored to the system) such as mobile phones, tablet computers, network routers, televisions[19][20] and video game consoles; the Android system in wide use on mobile devices is built on the Linux kernel.

So to be clear, when I say Linux....I refer to all systems based on the defining component, the linux kernel.

That includes Android.


Here is a summary of the key points so you don't get it twisted.

1) I am a fan of linux and would like to see its proliferation. That has been realized in the mobile space already. Microsoft sucking on hard eggs there and may continue too for the foreseeable future as Android phones continues to sell like hot cakes.

2) Ubuntu is a viable desktop operating system for everything short of gaming. It has matured enough over the years that I can (and currently do) run it as the primary OS on computers at home and in the office. It is as easy to use as a Windows machine.

3) An Ubuntu based desktop can also serve as a home server for free. (Microsoft tried and failed to market a product to compete with this functionality....Windows Home Server)

4) Windows 8 is ludicrously cheap at present (US$39.99). At which point, it makes it difficult to recommend Ubuntu because of the gaming advantage the windows platform provides.

[Eroo]

I really didnt want to get into this because but I had to respond. I will just add some points -

1. Wyatt's original point was using linux as his home server as do I. Should I go out and buy a windows home server license when the free (price) and free (open source) alternative is more than capable?

2. A lot of smaller nations are switching to Linux because it is open, a lot of fear about what is being tracked and with good reason.

3. Most supercomputers or mission critical servers run on linux or qnx.

4. The BIGGEST advancement to Linux acceptance in years is coming. That is Steam. This more than anything else since the launch of Ubuntu is going to help.

5. You love Windows and thats okay but you should be thankful to Linux because advancements from the open source there help improve your OS down the line too such as the UAC being introduced in Vista and a tickless kernel being introduced into Windows 8 (a good five years after Unix based OSes)

Do I like Linux and open source - hell yes, Do I hate Windows - hell no. It has its place and right now thats being the mainstream desktop and I doubt it will ever change.

You may think linux is stupid, useless whatever and you entitled to your opinion. My original reply to you was because your first post on the topic seemed condescending to the ppl that do find it quite the opposite. This is the Windows 8 thread so maybe I'm wrong for continuing a linux battle here, besides
Wyatt has provided  far better cases than I can.

Thats it, I'm not gonna say anything anymore on this topic.

[MessiaaH]

Right, now that you guys got that off your chest, we can move on lol. But to address just 1 of your points Ero, windows 7, or in this case windows 8, can serve as a viable home server. Hell my old home server was running xp.... Serves just fine. It's running 7 now doh, soon to be 8.

I conceed all the rest of points, because like i said, it doesnt matter, men going to use wah they want to use.
I just personally think linux as a pc is rubbish.

Now i can go back to playing Borderlands 2 on my Windows 8 PC

[W1nTry]

I really don't want to even touch this topic with a 10 foot pole but here's my 2c.

I agree with windows 8 being cheap to push the eco system versus fear of desktop competition.

I don't agree Android is a crap OS. I see its evolution being similar to any mainstream OS *cough windows* it may not start out at the top but interest, sales and flexibility had made it great (if success was measured by the quality of the product alone then apple should have ruled the PC works a long time ago since DOS days) so that's a biased argument.

Linux is not dead or dying (Android aside) as its one if the most commonly used Web server platforms around and to say its beyond the realm of possibility that in the future Ubuntu or another good Linux distro would be considered by a large manu is being as pessimistic about Linux as saying windows phone 8 won't gain traction.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/259229/dells_ubuntu_laptop_program_enters_beta_blows_away_expectations.html

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[MessiaaH]

Good points wintry. One of the best contributions thus far. (Still dont think linux as a mainstream pc have a chance in hell in d near-semi long future because of various reasons. Not just dis-like for linux, but other factors as stated before in the various posts, but good points regardless.).

[W1nTry]

I too think windows ain't going nowhere soon as far as desktop and enterprise is concerned. But I will hold some hope that Linux will continue make great strides towards being a more viable (in the publics eye choice for general use) also I do agree with Wyatt that Ubuntu already is a great choice for a media center or basic use PC.

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[MessiaaH]

Wintry, if you think windows and enterprise not going anywhere, how could you think that MS made Win 8 cheap because of possible linux competition in the PC space ? Windows direct competition is OSX, and osx cant even begin to affect windows. Win 8 being cheap dont even have nothign to do with OSX, and men thinking linux(ubuntu) mite have something to do with it? There are much much much more logical reasons why MS made win8 that cheap (several of which i've stated before). When men start watching logic rather than pie in the sky ideas, then it would make more sense to me. First android going to replace PC Gaming and Consoles. Now Linux affecting MS decision for cheap OS, what next.

I can appreciate being an advocate for various types of technology, but certain comments i does see coming out of some of these threads is far beyond my ability to comprehend, maybe is just me.

[W1nTry]

Err I think you mixed me up with Wyatt. I already said its the ecosystem. I was just also saying that Ubuntu is a decent basic PC OS. Nothing to do with replacing or competition, just a thumbs up on its usability

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[MessiaaH]

Cool, makes sense.

[TriniXaeno]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/259229/dells_ubuntu_laptop_program_enters_beta_blows_away_expectations.html

wow, nice find W1n. Didn't even know Dell had such a program in existence.

Lends more credence to the linux cause. Microsoft would definitely not be pleased with a major player like Dell pushing an Ubuntu laptop.

@ eroo: good one with Steam coming to linux. The day Valve brings Dota 2 to the opensource world is the day Microsoft could kiss my $$ goodbye, lol

I believe Valve said they made the move precisely in response to Windows 8. Correct me if I'm wrong.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve-linux-viable-games-windows-8/

If anyone is a big enough player in the PC space to make Linux a respectable gaming platform, its Valve. They look set to rally around Ubuntu.


On another note and this feeds into another point Eroo made, seems consumers aren't the only ones getting the sweet deal, Microsoft is practically giving away Windows 8 developer accounts as well for the "wtf" price of $8.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/30/windows-8-pimping/

As the article says, this whole push seems a bit desperate and with good reason. Microsoft is at risk of losing the future as more and more apps move to the web space where guess who is king....(yes..Linux)

Cloud to the world.

[MessiaaH]

Yea, so, NextGen Reader is available for Metro, I currently use Feed Reader, which has everything including live tiles, and Though Next Gen doesnt have live tile support yet, the UI feels more polished:

http://www.wpcentral.com/nextgen-reader-windows-8-now-available-microsoft-store

[TriniXaeno]

Well doing a search for Windows 8 recently revealed something that supports your thought on who the real threat is Messiahh.

Have a read of this:

Windows 8 is a completely reimagined Windows. You can code once and have a great app experience that scales across devices from tablets to all-in-one PCs, from 10" to 27" screen sizes. The new Windows Store provides flexibility for selling your app and higher profit potential than the Apple App Store – with an 80% revenue share when you reach $25,000 USD or more in total sales. Unlike Cocoa Touch, which only use Objective C, the Windows Runtime gives you the flexibility to build native apps using C#, C++ and JavaScript. It’s easy to get started on Windows 8.

    Apps are front and center

    The entirely new start screen puts your app at the center of the Windows 8 experience. With live tiles and notifications, people stay connected and engaged with your app without having to launch it . With app contracts users are able to seamlessly search across and share content between unrelated apps. You don’t need to know anything about the target app other than its declared support for the target contract – it just works, creating engagement opportunities outside of just launching the app.


Introducing the Windows Store

Not only does Windows 8 let you keep more money per download than the App Store with an 80% revenue for total sales over $25,000 USD, Windows 8 and the Windows Store also make it simple for millions of customers to find, try, and buy your app from practically anywhere in the world. The Windows Store makes it easy to distribute, update, and get paid for the apps that you develop.

They are targeting IOS developers square in the eye.

So you're right, Apple is the 800 pound gorilla they are trying to take down with this ridiculous Windows 8 pricing.

iOS is even the first keyword on the Microsoft Store.

Dirty tactics yes

[MessiaaH]

which is what i said from the start, +1 for actually doing some research to see d truth as apposed to just guessing ideas that dont add up. Yuh was beginning to sound like Romney and them for a second. Glad to know you're still susceptible to facts and logic

[TriniXaeno]

Can't argue with a smoking gun like that.

Microsoft showing their hand big time with the way that site is structured.

[MessiaaH]

Boy wyatt, Apple and MS may be duking it out, but it look like Ubuntu just waiting for the right opportunity to strike:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/29/dell-xps-13-ubuntu-laptop/

MS pricing still end up affecting this though, but if linux sees further support from the OEMs, it could develop into a niche market for enthusiast.

[TriniXaeno]

Very interesting.

Very interesting indeed!

nice find +1

[Arcmanov]

I see the price of the Surface Pro tablet has been pegged at 899/999.
Not bad... I was expecting a starting price of about 1300.
Time to start saving them duckets.   




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