Author Topic: Steam, The Ultimate Online Game Platform (Read 331050 times)

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #860 on:** November 02, 2012, 07:11:46 PM »

+1, dazwhawetalkinbout!

I think this deserves it's very own thread yes.

Can't wait to see what Steam can do with Linux in the gaming department.

Carigamers · « **Reply #860 on:** November 02, 2012, 07:11:46 PM »

MessiaaH · « **Reply #861 on:** November 06, 2012, 04:36:59 PM »

No offense to steam, becuase it is d most epic thing to happen to the pc industry, but unless A+ game makers start making games for linux, it doesnt matter if steam on it or not, it it have no linux games to play. lolol.

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #862 on:** November 06, 2012, 06:52:42 PM »

Steam is an A+ game maker.

So catch your falling self.

If Steam does it....and Blizzard (who is currently making case against Windows

follows suit...then its a bright future ahead for linux.

What is missing (or rather not openly stated) is that Linux requires some work before its in ship shape as an alternative to Windows 8 as far as gaming is concerned.

Steam has the deep wallets to invest in fixing a distribution like Ubuntu up to be a solid platform for Left 4 Dead 2, Half Life, DOTA, Portal 2, Team Fortress 2, etc....

Once that ground work is done...it becomes elementary for others to follow suit.

In fact, if Valve wants to be really anal about it....they could release a Half Life 3 Episode exclusively on the linux platform for say a few months. To give the market a wake up call.

Exciting times ahead.

Can't wait to see how this develops.

MessiaaH · « **Reply #863 on:** November 06, 2012, 07:50:18 PM »

Again with the pie in the sky ideas. You guys need to think things through before putting forward an idea that just doesnt make sense. MAC OSX is in ALOT! more homes than linux, and to name 5 A+ games on the platform would be difficult at best. Why? It's the same reason WP struggled with app count for a while, Why? The reason is simple. Developers does make games for platforms where they can achieve the most sales. PC was getting so much bad treatment until the last few years, and you want to tell me linux have a chance in hell? Making a game for a platform involves alot more than just having steam support. Steam mite be aviable for linux, but coding games for linux is an entirely different ballgame.

Another case in point is the wii, it outsold all the other consoles, yet still A+ titles were limited to 1st party titles only. The wii was still a success becuase nintendo is nintendo. But ubuntu is not as fortunate.

All these different points im making is something called Logic. It takes money to develop a game, and nobody going to invest in a platform that marketshare is close to zero. Vavle making steam for ubutu MAY, i repeat, MAY spur interest in the platform, but the likelyhood of that happening ANYTIME soon, is remote! It is much more logical, looking at the market, looking at the state of gaming on the mac, looking at budget and whats involved in making a game for another platform. Looking at driver compatibility, looking at the current support for linux by d leaders in the hardware business like Asus, Dell, HP, etc. Linux is quite simply no where close.

Even if valve release every game they have exclusive for linux, it is NOT going to ganer any overwheling support as you seem to suggest it will. And vavle doing that is another non-logical idea. Half Life 3 exclusviely for linux? Thats as likely as microsoft limiting skype to windows and wp. If valve is stupid and dont want to make money, yes they will release half life 3 exclusively for linux lol. But they'll never do that. Make no business sense atal. They will only do that if ubuntu is already an established platform. And unfortunately ubutnu is years upon years away from such status.

Steam for the platform is a start. but as i said in the other thread, microsoft has already taken steps to curtail that (even though those steps are targeted at apple and mobile), and steam could play hardball how much they want. They dont quite have the Clout Microsfot does, and i guaratee you will see a 1st party steam client for windows 8 metro in the not to distant future. And if the sold-out status of the MS Surace RT is any indication, windows 8 is going to sell by the shitloads just like windows 7 and all the nay-sayers who want to make money, will come running.

And as to blizzard, they can afford to make Starcraft, Diablo etc exclusive for pc, because the PC install base is huge, and as u can see, it sold extremely well.

In d end, only fools will give up they pc and the countless titles available for it, to support ubuntu with zero A+ games right now, and only a very minuscule few to arrive in the near future. Keep faith alive though, technological history and patterns and logic just may go out the window and a miracle happen lol.

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #864 on:** November 07, 2012, 07:51:39 AM »

Miracles do happen

And 5 years ago, people expecting an A+ title like Left 4 Dead on Linux would have been called crazy.

Guess what? Today that is a reality.

This is the genesis.

Also, I said exclusive for a few months, not exclusive permanently. Just as how Microsoft was ZERO in the console market. Then they started with XBOX and took their PC game, Halo....and released it as an Xbox exclusive for some months.

They did the same with Halo 2.

They did the same with Gears of War.

And now.... the XBOX has succeeded and is a respected and popular gaming platform.

It didn't happen overnight. It took years and deep pockets.

Valve has the time and money to do the same.

Its a long shot....but so was Microsoft's entry into the home console market.

We both know how that turned out.

Don't forget the rumours of a "steam box" to rival consoles. One of the big questions around that would be which OS that device would run. If they had to make it a windows box, you have to add license costs. Now, with this push from Valve, we could very well see a steam box in the future running ubuntu coming to living rooms and small screens near you.

A cheap, capable PC gaming rig.

Carigamers · « **Reply #864 on:** November 07, 2012, 07:51:39 AM »

phoenix31tt · « **Reply #865 on:** November 07, 2012, 08:55:14 AM »

alot of people does get tie up with microsoft....

microsoft primary business is not games etc... they wont take a chance on other stuff if they didnt have something stacking money in the background...

valve's primary business is making games... they won't/shouldn't just leave out the PC market to give linux a boost and sacrifice their sales... afterall selling on linux or pc makes not a difference to steam.. what they are trying to do is expand their market so hey we'll release a linux client for the few gamers that use linux (i can see them developing for linux for the steam box doh.. but thats another convo)...

they are just giving options... i dont expect to see them do anything significantly exclusive to linux... btw... i havent read the literature but does anywhere say that because STEAM CLIENT is supported on linux means all valve GAMES are supported on linux?

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #866 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:19:22 AM »

That's an assumption there Phoenix.

I don't think Valve's primary business is making games anymore. Read online about the wait for the next iteration of Half Life. It's been aeons coming.

Valve is sitting pretty on their DRM platform, namely STEAM. It's making them a boatload of money. As you may know, Gabe, the founder, is now a Billionaire.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2012/03/07/valve-gabe-newell-billionaire/

It's no surprise that Activison and EA are also trying their hands at digital distribution platforms to rival Steam. It is a cash cow.

Stacking money as you put it.

Now that allows Valve the financial leeway to chase after Linux.

They don't need to "leave out" the PC market. They just need to jump start the Linux market to hedge against Windows 8 and the Microsoft store.

What better way than to get Nvidia to help out:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/06/nvidia-valve-geforce-linux-drivers-r310/

That's right, in just a few months, Valve has already gotten Nvidia to double the performance of their linux drivers. Wow. Linus himself couldn't move the green giant. See what being a billionaire can do?

Its elementary.

You have an android, you buy from the android marketplace (play store)

You have an iphone, you buy from the iphone marketplace (apple store)

You have a Windows PC, you buy from the Windows marketplace (windows store)

You have an Ubuntu PC, you buy from the Ubuntu marketplace (Ubuntu Software center, yes there is one)

You have a blackberry...well you get the point

Valve knows that....these marketplace apps are becoming ubiquitous and built right into the device. Third party stores like STEAM will be threatened, BIG TIME.

They need to hedge against Windows 8 and the Microsoft store cannibalizing their customer base.

That is VERY strong motivation for them to invest in making Ubuntu a legit gaming alternative.

Either they do that or risk folding up shop in a few years.

There are currently 26 steam games on Linux at the moment

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?snr=1_4_4__12&term=linux#os=linux&advanced=0&sort_order=ASC&page=1

They are hiring staff currently to specialize in moving Windows games to Linux.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html

So expect more and more titles to migrate as the months / years go by.

This is a magical moment in the industry. A miracle as Messiahh put it.

phoenix31tt · « **Reply #867 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:42:45 AM »

wyatt... i think you must be confused...

if you think valve will reduce its own cash flow to boost linux gaming then thats just crazy...

what i CAN see them doing... is supplementing to add options...

what microsoft did with xbox is transfer cash flow... or even better increase because people were pirating pc games anyway... so stop making for pc and make for xbox they sell both xbox AND games... without reducing any of the cashflow....

if valve were to make ANY offering exclusive to linux they will be taking an unnecessary hit to cash flow when they could achieve the same thing by supplementary supporting of linux

its like saying.. hey we're making a billion dollars developing for iphone... lets make an exclusive app for android... to promote android... when you can make your billion on iphone and make another billion on android :S...

now to the competition point... you really think, after all the struggles and hoops microsoft jumping through to please customers that they would just let the top online game distributor ride out? we'll see...

but IF Microsoft does make distribution through marketplace the only option then there is merit to your argument... as it stands they HAVE NOT... because i running all my steam games on windows 8 atm

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #868 on:** November 07, 2012, 08:26:16 PM »

Quote from: phoenix31tt on November 07, 2012, 09:42:45 AM

if you think valve will reduce its own cash flow to boost linux gaming then thats just crazy...

They are boosting linux to ENSURE their cash flow. To secure it.

The word Gabe (head of Valve) used is hedging.

That means, if you're concerned about a particular investment not panning out....you make another investment that could supplement your income should the worst happen. Basically, not putting all your eggs in one basket.

Similary in your argument, Microsoft made a bet on the console market. They could have entered the living room and fail. Money down the drain.

They succeeded though against great odds. Leveraging Halo was a HUGE factor.

Likewise, Valve can leverage Left 4 Dead, Half Life and Dota 2.

The key is not complete exclusivity, like I said before....exclusive for sometime. Microsoft eventually released Halo and Halo 2 on the PC as well as Gears of War. They did not remain xbox exclusives indefinitely.

Steam will continue to make money on the windows platform all the while. Windows 8 or not. There is a massive install base of Windows Xp, 7 and Vista still out there.

This is a future plan.

Microsoft may not make their store a powerhouse today. In fact, most of the games on it right now are laughable. That is TODAY.

Fast forward a few years and the Windows store could be the one stop shop for all your apps and games. EASILY.

History tends to repeat itself. Look at Origin. At first, people were like Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 will still be available on all other Digital Distribution platforms.....oh...it won't be Origin exclusively.

Then boom, Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 not available on Steam.

You don't see Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 there either. Valve knows how the games shakes down.

This is no idle threat. Their bread and butter is being FIRMLY threatened with the Windows 8 / Microsoft store combo.

Ultimately, linux will benefit and that's a good thing. An opensource platform gets the worlds best digital gaming platform? Dreams do become reality.

phoenix31tt · « **Reply #869 on:** November 07, 2012, 09:04:51 PM »

ok maybe i need to be a little clearer with what i was saying... this is the flow:

1. you saying valve is pushing for linux support and thus that will increase linux usage in general
2. messiaah saying the only how linux might make a dent is if all game developers push linux hard.
3. your point was valve can make something exclusive to linux... that will help push linux

point 3 is what i'm arguing... you say Gabe is hedging... and investing somewhere else IN CASE his original investment dont pan out.. understandable... but hedging does not mean killing or attempting to kill the first investment or take anything away from it.. it just means that IF the first investment fails u can fall back on the second...

making anything exclusive to linux (it would have to be something significant to mean anything) would mean a big dent in cash flow that would've been coming from windows.. while linux "picks up"... thats not hedging... thats crazy...

now what i'm saying they will do.. is exactly what gabe is saying... they will develop for linux now (simultaneous development for both platforms like what you see with ios/android).. so if microsoft doesnt pan out, they always have the linux to fall back on and wont be caught with their pants down

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #870 on:** November 07, 2012, 10:53:59 PM »

Who said anything about killing or attempting to kill?

I don't expect Windows to die.

I expect Linux to become a proper gaming platform. Both can co-exist just fine.

And valve has no issue with Win Xp, Windows 7, nor Vista. It is only Windows 8 that is being seen as a threat (because of the integrated store)

We do not disagree if that is your position because I'm surely not calling for the end of Windows as we know it (nor is Valve)

On the second point....I am not, nor ever said, exclusive permanently. Exclusive for a period of time.

Nothing wrong with that. It is a tried and tested method used by many companies in the industry up to this day.

Hardly a contentious concept.

MessiaaH · « **Reply #871 on:** November 07, 2012, 11:54:56 PM »

Wyatt, exclusive for a short period of time, even if is just 1 month hurts cashflow.
Also it will do absolutely nothing to boost linux becuase nobody going out and install linux to get a temporary exclusive. If u talking like 6 month exclusive, then some mite think, but that will destroy they sales an they wont do that.

Any how you take it, valve is not in the position to put linux as a premer platform regardless how u look at the situation becuase they have too much to loose. Treating linux as the fallback plan is d smart thing to do, and it's what they seem to be doing. But trying to promote linux to directly compete with Windows becuase u dont like metro is not only stupid, its dangerous for your company. And i dont think the fellers at valve are insane. At least i hope not, lol.

Bottom line is, ubuntu in the home is going nowhere fast! And no amount of tangable logic and profit centric efforts valve do, will change that. Wheater ubuntu succeed is mainly dependant on Hardware Manufactures, and the Retailers. Not Steam. Steambox being a success is much more likely than ubuntu gaining any kind of marketshare, and steambox being successful is a major shot in the dark as well. (Rembmer OnLive? The platform all d android boys on gatt was touting? they waiting to be bought now lol. Talk bout crash and burn.)
It's about logic ppl logic. Sometimes it's about taking risks that MITE!, i repeat, MITE! pay off. But when you talking confident about only a shady possible future, its not being logical atal. It woudl be better to say, you "Hope" ubuntu takes off. Than saying it actually will.

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #872 on:** November 08, 2012, 08:14:31 AM »

I wasn't one of the OnLive supporters.

Have you read the links I've posted? This is a real ground breaking development for Linux.

The likes of which has not been seen in a decade.

Valve is not mixing matters here at all. They have rallied Nvidia to the cause already. More will follow.

They have started a beta roll out and have 25 games on linux

They are hiring developers to port windows games to linux

Steam is currently beta testing their "Big Picture" mode designed to put steam in the living room.

As I explained already, Valve is not as concerned with profits from the retailing of their games as much as they are concerned with profits from the steam platform itself (which is threatened by Windows 8 )

That is to say, they can afford to go the exclusivity route easily without being worried about their core business cash flow. A loss leader (for those familiar with the business term)

This isn't some pie in the sky, wishing upon a star discussion anymore. There is a very active and momentous push being made by Valve here.

Something we (as gamers) should welcome.

What do you have to lose?

www.steamforlinux.com

"Miracles begin to happen when you put more energy into your dreams than you do into your fears"

Go Valve Go!

MessiaaH · « **Reply #873 on:** November 08, 2012, 11:39:05 AM »

Wyatt ah dont think yuh getting what we trying to say.

A couple things.

1. "Have you read the links I've posted? This is a real ground breaking development for Linux. The likes of which has not been seen in a decade." "- I'm not doubting that atal, especially seeing ubuntu was a dead platform for years, ANY! interest shown will be "ground breaking" lol. I also agree with the reason you say valve is doing this (fear of MS), agreed. But the end result is where we radically disagree. Your comments, posts, etc, infer that Vavle is trying to pit linux as a premeir platform to directly compete with windows, and some how garner significant market share and developer support to make ubuntu a viable gaming platform / pc replacement in the living room. And that idea is what i think is pie in the sky. What valve is doing, is putting the piece inplace in the event Microsoft rape them. And if some how their profit margin begins to radically drop because of MS, then, and ONLY then, it would make sense, to push linux hard with exclusives and the like. That's valve plan, ubuntu is a FALL-BACK scenario. Not a competative scenario. If they begin to loose profit from Windows, then and only then will they move forward with the direction you claim. But prematurely moving forward in such a direction is not only idiotic, but dangerous to the success of the company. What do we as gamers have to loose? We have vavle trying to play hero, and end up in RIM's position, at the bottom of the barrel, And that is when the Windows Store will eat them up and spit them out. And we will no longer have the brilliance that is steam today. So it is very important for me as a gamer, for valve not to try to over-reach for no reason when they dont have to. Fall-back plan is just fine, linux development is just fine. Premier platform, exclusives, competing directly against windows, when you making a shitload from windows? Idiotic!

2. "They are hiring developers to port windows games to linux" - WHAT! ? Absolutely and completely pointless. Vavalve coudl hire ah Billion developers, they cant magically take company's intelectual properly and some how "port" it to linux, Unless you talking indie games and get the permission of the developer to do so. But u honestly think Epic studios is going to let vavle programers touch they code to port? lolol. HELL NO!, EPIC will have to make the decision to prot such games. You not going to see COD on Unbuntu unless Activision decides to do it themselfs. So that whole "hire developers" line is stupid, pointless, and doesnt apply to A+ titles. D only significant game on ubuntu's launch is L4D2 (which belongs to valve), and Serious Sam 3 (a very very very dated game that didnt sell well ATAL!)

3. Getting nvidia to optimize drivers that have ALREADY existed for Linux is no big deal, it's a step in the right direction, but it's a far cry from having significant Game developers porting their games to linux. Or big players like Dell, HP, etc, pushing ubuntu PC's HARD. and like i said previously, a HARD! push from Manufacturers and Retailers is d only thing that would make Ubunut a success.
Apple has ALOT!, i repeat, ALOT! more money than Vavle. They are the richest company in the world for crying out loud. And they have been pushing MAC OSX HARD!!!!! for decades. Making both their own hardware and software having a vertical system that propel dem to the top of the smartphone industry and achieved them the highest stock price of any company in the world in no short order. And even with a business model that worked so sucessfully in the mobile genre. Same model being applied to PC, and Microsoft still cutting they ass , gg, with no re. So if apple, who been in the hardware and software business ah hella-of-lot longer than valve. Make a success of such business model in the mobile field, cant even begin to touch Microsoft Monopoly, what makes you think vavle has a chance in hell? Sorry, but if apple cant do it, valve sure as hell cant. It will take the combined effort of Dell, Hp, Asus, and Best Buy, Ebay, Amazon etc. To make ubuntu a success. And ppl only going to put out such effort, if Microsoft royally screws everybody. The reason Android exists as a success today is because of 2 reasons. Apple screw and strong-arm the carriers, and microsoft sit down on they ass and did nothing in the earlies about their mobile strat. If apple played ball with carriers, and MS showed some effort back den, android will still be struggling now. Same applies to ubuntu in the home. It will only succeed, if Microsoft allow it to.

4. "Miracles begin to happen when you put more energy into your dreams than you do into your fears" - RIM and Onlive Probably said the same thing lol. But Fear is useful when it helps you make the smart decision. Nothing wrong with taking risks and chasing your dreams. But there is a smart way to do things, then there is the stupid, proud, arrogant, own-wayish, not willing to play ball way. Which is what got rim in the situation they are in today. The CEOs couldn't see past their own idea's physiology and superiority to recognize when Change is required. I see it all the time in the I.T. industry, Tech's who feel they know everything, not willing to listen and learn from someone who knows more, and end up remaining at the same level for years on end. Fortunately i dont think vavle is taking d stupid route, they are taking d safe route. Which is where we fundamentally disagree.

Edit:

Android devices replacing consoles in the near future is another recent pie in the sky idea i remember passing through gatt lol. you guys need to stop this wishful thinking, and start making sense man , geeze. But lets not get back into the android vs console topic, it's been exhausted quite enough lol.

TriniXaeno · « **Reply #874 on:** November 08, 2012, 01:52:01 PM »

This is why I asked if you read the links I posted.

because Valve themselves are saying this. Not just me.

You keep saying it would be stupid of valve to make such a move but that is precisely what they are doing.

From the CEO's own mouth.

I'm not making these things up.

As for the developers.....what Valves needs is proof of concept. They don't need to port the game...but they need to be able to show you how. From indie devs go right up.

They need to make it easy. By hiring developers and getting people skilled up in the process they will have the human resources to do it.

Microsoft is showing IOS developers how to port their apps to Windows 8.

Same principle here.

Valve will show developers how to port their games to Linux.

To be clear, let me quote the man himself

Quote

"I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality," said Newell.

"One, we’re trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people — in their thinking about platforms — don’t realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we’re going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who’s engaged with us — putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It’s a hedging strategy," said Newell.

Valve won't become a RIM anytime soon imo. Especially not by spreading their wings in this direction.

Some pics of steam on linux for good measure. (Ubuntu)

MessiaaH · « **Reply #875 on:** November 08, 2012, 02:01:31 PM »

Wyatt, " If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality" That is exactly what i say they doing, IFFFFFF, i repeat, IFFFFFF microsoft screws dem, THENNNN they will have an alternative in place to hedge. I said d smart thign to do is for them to put things in place in d event of trouble, to start pushing things hard linux, with d steps you say they mite take (exclusvies etc). But this is a precaution. Something to be used to hedge "eventually" IF! ms screw dem.

I got a lil worried their reading d first half of your post, becuase if this CEO was really going head strong AGAISNT Microsoft right this moment, it would mean very trouble time's for me as a gamer in the months to come. But when i read the actuall quote, my fears were released, because it re-asured me that valve basically doing this "just incase".
Which i fully agree with, nothing wrong with spreading your user base, d minute they start to play bullish and treating linux as a premier platform pre-maturely, it go spell trouble for them, and they will eventually end up just like RIM. But thankfully that doesnt seem to be d case.