Author Topic: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is  (Read 5223 times)

Offline W1nTry

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UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« on: December 17, 2007, 01:42:34 PM »
This is saddening to the PC gamer or gaming enthusiast... such fantastic games and look at those ABISSMAL sales figures..
Quote
Hardware geeks fail to bump Crysis sales

UT is a non-starter, too

By Wily Ferret: Monday, 17 December 2007, 4:41 PM

PROVING ONCE AGAIN that enthusiasts are a segment of a segment of a segment, the two high-profile graphics-centric games releases - Crysis and Unreal Tournament - have tanked in the sales charts.

According to industry Bible NPD, neither game managed to even get past 100,000 units, with Crysis selling 86,633 copies since November 13 and Unreal Tournament doing a pathetic 33,995 - despite the hype around its much-delayed release.

Hardware geeks have been jonesing over these games all year, looking for something to finally make use of the massively overpowered hardware hardware vendors are intent on shipping.

But whilst Crysis will have benchmarkers twiddling their drives for months to come, it seems that the samey gameplay has failed to excite anyone with a sub-$5000 gaming rig.

UT, for all its smooth splendour, has the exact same gameplay that the previous versions have had for the past half-decade, which is hardly an incentive for standard gamers to get into. µ

Carigamers

UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« on: December 17, 2007, 01:42:34 PM »

Offline Redlum08

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »
This is saddening to the PC gamer or gaming enthusiast... such fantastic games and look at those ABISSMAL sales figures..
Quote
Hardware geeks fail to bump Crysis sales

UT is a non-starter, too

By Wily Ferret: Monday, 17 December 2007, 4:41 PM

PROVING ONCE AGAIN that enthusiasts are a segment of a segment of a segment, the two high-profile graphics-centric games releases - Crysis and Unreal Tournament - have tanked in the sales charts.

According to industry Bible NPD, neither game managed to even get past 100,000 units, with Crysis selling 86,633 copies since November 13 and Unreal Tournament doing a pathetic 33,995 - despite the hype around its much-delayed release.

Hardware geeks have been jonesing over these games all year, looking for something to finally make use of the massively overpowered hardware hardware vendors are intent on shipping.

But whilst Crysis will have benchmarkers twiddling their drives for months to come, it seems that the samey gameplay has failed to excite anyone with a sub-$5000 gaming rig.

UT, for all its smooth splendour, has the exact same gameplay that the previous versions have had for the past half-decade, which is hardly an incentive for standard gamers to get into. µ

CONSOLES FTW!!! LOL, seriously though, PC gamers are becoming less and less as the Next Gen consoles get more and more software development from the Big Gaming houses with PC's getting most of the time, ports from the consoles, how Ironic that these Console games were developed on PC's only to be put onto Consoles to be ported back to PC's....O_o

This has been raised as a topic before, and I do believe that gaming is leaning more and more on the console side of things. FPS used to be big on PC's, but with releases of Gears of War, UT3, Halo 3, Call of Duty 4 to name the few most recent releases on Consoles, it shows a shift in that genre to consoles. I fear that PC gaming will become a thing of the past with the millions and millions of consoles being sold worldwide. The money is in software for Consoles these days...


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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 02:20:27 PM »
PC gaming will remain alive until MS adhere's to my advice and ports WOW for the 360 XD

Offline Arcmanov

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 03:47:29 PM »
I think a major reason for this is the system requirements.  There's just not that many PC gamers with
a rig like mine.  Who knows, in a couple years when the hardware has progressed to the point where
any PC can run it at 60 fps and over, we might see a spike in sales.  I didn't get Far Cry until 2 years
after it came out.
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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 04:24:41 PM »
I think a major reason for this is the system requirements.  There's just not that many PC gamers with
a rig like mine.  Who knows, in a couple years when the hardware has progressed to the point where
any PC can run it at 60 fps and over, we might see a spike in sales.  I didn't get Far Cry until 2 years
after it came out.

That's a valid point arc, however it does nothing to aid in the preservation of the PC FPS community. Piracy also has alot to do with it. However here's the spinning top problem. Every year the Nvidia's and ATIs etc come out with new more powerful hardware. THe game developers use the new latest greatest to design games cause it enables them to push the gaming experience further. However inherently bad coding and being spoilt by the best of the best hardware puts the avg joe aka MASS CONSUMER out of the picture as its too expensive for him to play. Gaming house makes less money, they develop less games, hardware companies have less object with which to use as marketing weapons and the industry slowly dies. Consoles on the other hand have a life cycle of 4-5 years or more depending. And thus game developers do not run the risk of having requirements that at too high cause they knwo what they are working with... what I am getting to is, YES development is good, YES progress is good... but does anyone else wonder if the hardware and software respins have gotten to ridiculous product refreshes with MINIMAL gain to the gaming industry?

I mean think about it this way, if PC gaming goes to the do do, what nvidia and ati gonna sell? what is the point of having a 400USD video card? to run wha? AERO? wtf? games drive video card sales, low sales means low profits means low funding for R&D mean lower quality cards.... and how have games benefited from the better hardware with DX10 specifications? we have bloated OSes, game requiremnts THROUGH THE ROOF and poor sales all around...

Now one may ask then what can be done? and how would slow product refreshes work? well honestly I don't know. Cause lets face it in addition to better performance, the ultimate goal of the video card manus is to MAKE MONEY. New product usually == new money more money. However with bleak sales like this, whats the point of these HIGH end beasts? They make the majority of their money in the low-mid ranged cards anyway which are effectively cards to RUN WOW!!! I honestly wouldn't mind they rethink things realize how its spiraling downwards and begin to refine current tech as opposed to making it bigger, hotter, more expensive. That would attract back developers and lower cost will attract consumers. Its a complex matter to be sure but it just seems bleak...

Carigamers

Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 04:24:41 PM »

Offline TrinireturnofGamez

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 05:03:19 PM »
UT and Crysis selling poorly don't exactly herald the doom of pc gaming... fact is everyone in a developed country as a PC or access to one . 
   UT and Crysis have high system requirements , and the gameplay appeals mainly to people who are already gamers.
   
  WoW's success is partly due to the fact that it will work well on just about any pc , and its broad appeal...

 All PC gaming needs to take off once more is a few companies to take up the same philosophy and strategy nintendo is using for the Wii :

 Instead of the same thing over and over , with better graphics that are costly to implement, go straight for gameplay!! 

 The popularity of Sims for the PC is purely due to the fact that it appeals to a much wider base than any FPS... ie. women and old people.
  Spore comes from the creator of Sims/Sim city , and promises to be just as good as far as sales go.

I predict the industry will be rekindled when Spore and Starcraft II are released ,at least for awhile.
  Even if the requirements for Spore and/Or starcraft II are higher than Unreal 3 (which i think is generous, 2ghz cpu, radeon 9600) , the sales for both will be mind boggling...

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2007, 05:58:19 PM »
Most people with Pc's can't play the newer games, I'm sure if you take a poll on the forum 50-60% can't!! this means that they hurt them selves with over spec'ced products no one can play!

As mentioned consoles have a longer life and are just plain cheaper! PC games are far from dead tho, not just WOW but the vast variety of games just reduces the market for new, rereleased games! plus online plays is where it's at for pc's something wow and similar have an advantage over consoles ( I mean you'll run out of buttons on those damn controllers for wow, I got 48 hot keys/macros assigned for wow, no console controller can handle that yet ).

Now what this does mean is that consumers are not happy with the pc game market and want a change, they want better games, with out super specs and more innovations!!!!! plus 86k sales at $30 a pop is still 2.58 million in sales cash for Crysis, add the fact they will still be selling in for 2 years and make online play revenue I think they'll still pull in a cool 20-30 million by the end, not billion dollar wow revenue but enough to get them going a few more years, add this to EA's huge portfolio and they're still happy.

What EA needs to do and really fast is get other games using the crysis engine out, and seeing what the engine can do, and knowing it's 2-3 years before gpus can catch up to it means R&D well spent! simple expansions and new games for 2-3 more years making 10-15million each and releasing 10 titles means EA is making bucks, end of story.
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Offline TaC_uP

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 12:52:57 PM »
COD4 definitely played a role in this though. I for one know many people who had to choose between the 3 and I recommend COD4 instead of the other two. The main reason was system requirements. I'm pretty sure alot of people choose COD4 over the rest because of the fact it released first and had very good reviews and alot of hype/advertising.

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 02:13:24 PM »
not to mention the 'ichigo' factor for both games. crysis was leaked online a week before official release, same for ut3.

the online component for both games is nowhere as popular or appealing as COD 4 or team fortress 2 (especially crysis) so there really wasn't as much reason to purchase either game, save for the single player component.

Ut3 had a lot of people disappointed, with the changes around the core game mechanics, and there isnt as vast a place for it amongst pc gamers as there was for ut2004,(blame the change from fast paced online pc shooters to more tactical gaming, modern day warfare) a shame but the competition kind of killed its online momentum.





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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 10:49:59 AM »
I said it before i'll say it again... all MS has to do is put a basic OS on the Xbox 360, that can check email and have basic apps like outlook and a browser. Put Office as an ONLINE app for the 360 with a small fee attached if you want to edit docs but free to view online, make a keyboard and mouse for the 360(though technically ANY USB should work) and port WOW and they'll win the console wars, the PC wars and if they add the HD-DVD to it, the FORMAT wars.... but hey that's just me... that would take care of the RTS/RPG/MMORPG problem with buttons and NEEDING a PC as a whole. Cheapest PC ever that can play games at 1080p!!! that aside check this interesting article posted subsequent to my comments that the video card recycle is killing itself :p

Quote
GPUs are a dying breed

Full throttle over the cliff

By Charlie Demerjian: Tuesday, 18 December 2007, 6:20 PM

DO GRAPHICS CARDS matter anymore? The short answer is yes, but not for long. The problem is progress, and GPU makers are going to work themselves out of a job.

Progress can be a bitch. And GPU vendors are facing down two really daunting trends, monitors and eyeballs. Both have limits: monitors are somewhat flexible, eyeballs are absolute. Progress matters until you hit a wall, then you have a hard sell, a very hard sell. Extra undercoating for your new car sir?

The problem is pretty simple, and for the sake of lessening arguments, let us define a high-end card as $500 with bleeding edge performance and nothing out there faster. Mid-range parts are defined as $250, and about half as fast as the high-end parts.

Just to lessen the arguments some more, let us define the GPU development cycle as a year long cycle with the first part being a new architecture and the second, six months later, being an update or refresh. Each new generation doubles the performance of the last, more or less.

Any change in the raw numbers, say the refresh cycle going from 12 to 18 months, will change the times and numbers, but not the conclusions. The end result is inevitable,

The fundamental limit is that your eye can only resolve so much information. We have long passed the point where a GPU can crunch more bit depth than a human can parse, but have rarely used that because the displays to do so are expensive and the payback for it is small.

If a modern GPU works in 32-bit depth most of the time, with some capable of 64, 128-bit, aka extreme overkill is a factor of four GPU power away. To put that in doubling periods, it is two generations away to get from 32b with current frame rates to 128b with the same frame rates. Based on the numbers above, that would be a year if GPU makers wanted to go there and end that argument once and for all.

How about resolution? Well, we are already there. A two generation old ATI X1300 low end card can drive two 30" monitors, and the upcoming HD34xx parts can do the same with all the DRM infections you might care to inflict on yourself. They will even support Display Port and the rest. All this for well under $100. Pushing rez is a dead issue, unless you are buying Nvidia cards, it simply is not a problem anymore.

So, what is left? Is there a grand challenge? Sure, it is frame rates, polygon pushing and shaders, also known as the main things that GPUs are meant to do now. This is enough to keep us busy for a while, right? Not really, we are fast approaching adequacy now with mid-range cards on a mid-range system. That means high end everything is within shooting range.

Think of it like this, if an ATI HD3870 can play most games adequately at 1920*1200, AKA 1080p, right now, that is fine. Not many people have 20+ inch monitors that can display those rezes, according to the steam survey the here, only 2.28% have 1920 capable monitors. The 'other' category that includes 30" 2560 * 1600 beasts as well as a few oddballs like the 1366 * 768 of the laptop I am on now has a mere 1.36%.

Lets assume that each level of AA and AF each takes double the GPU power of the predecessor. 2x takes twice the power of the normal, and 16x takes twice as much as 8x. If a HD3870 can run a modern game at 1920 * 1200 with 0x AA and 0x AF, then a 1920 * 1200 16x/8x will take 2^4x and 2^3x as much power.

2560 * 1600 has about 1.75 as many pixels as 1920 * 1200, lets round it to 2x. Just to give it the most pessimistic outlook possible, lets say a future game will need 4x the horsepower for miscellaneous things as current GPUs. Between the rez and the 'other' category, that is 2^3 times more power needed.

In total, we have the need for 2^10 more power, or about 1024x the power of today's HD3870, a crazy insurmountable number right? Even if this would get us to the holy grail of GPUdom, perfect frame rates with everything turned on, it can't happen. 1000x is more than we can expect, right?

In powers of two, that is 10 doubling periods, the first one will happen in January. The next nine will be spaced about 6 months apart meaning this will be 4.5 years down the line for the worst case scenario possible. At that point, GPUs will be good enough for the highest end monitors out there today.

But wait you say, what if there is an uber-rez monitor in those intervening years? Well, if it is not out now, it won't be reasonably priced then, and probably relegated to the top 5% of the market or less. If not, a 5120 * 3200 monitor would only add another year to the curve. The flip side of that is that a human eye would be hard pressed to see those many lines, and anything more would probably go to waste.

With the upcoming R680 cards in January, the curve will probably be ahead of where I say it is, and those cards will most likely run a 2560 * 1600 game with low AA and AF settings standard. It is also unlikely that any massive jump in rez for mainstream monitors will come out of the blue.

So, the problem facing GPUs is that in a few years, they will catch up to monitors, and a few years after that, they will be good enough for eyes. Right now, a $250 card is good enough for, at least according to Valve, the vast majority of monitors out there. Glass is the choke point, and it is not scaling very fast.

GPUs on the other hand show no sign of slowing down. Between ATI and NV, Intel in about 18 months as well, you have a cutthroat market where anyone slowing down looses. This means that for all involved, it is full throttle until they go flying off a cliff.

Then it is over. GPUs will no longer matter. Time for a new challenge. Right now, they are hanging on by a fingernail hitting the gas. Remember what happened to the thriving sound card industry? µ

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 02:20:43 PM »
No, it wouldn't the majority of PC sales are WORK driven and work ties into OS and PC sales, though PC sales have declined and laptop sales increased so that is a trade off. Gaming as a whole isn't nearly as large as the PC on a whole, think of the possible billions of PCs out there and only millions of PCs gaming.

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 04:20:54 PM »
I like this line the best: "Remember what happened to the thriving sound card industry?", although I hope that
is not a sign of things to come.  I personally like having new GPU uberness every year or so. :happy0203:
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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 04:37:51 PM »
Personally I will continue to buy add-in sound cards cause as good as on-board has gotten they still don't match up to Creative in sound quality, fidelity or sheer volume. Not to mention on board DSP. But I was having this discussion with a co-worker today, what happens when you reach photorealistic graphics at 60FPS or better? you hit the ceiling... then what? NADA, you can't upgrade your eyes as the article points out.. so in 5 years... then what? besides arc, new hardware is fine, but what about the benefit that consoles have? they get better and better looking and playing games as the console matures EVEN THOUGH its the same 3 year old hardware. Optimization goes out the WINDOWS (pun intended). Wouldn't it be nice to know that you buy a card today and in a years time you are GUARANTEED to have a 50% better looking, better playing game without changing your hardware? I mean one the one side it means less sales as I mentioned in this thread earlier, but then I doubt the 'upgrade' market on old PCs is really that lucrative as opposed to the new PC built. That being said they'll continue to make money having their cards being put into new machines anyways. There are of course other ramifications to having photorealistic capable to tom dick and harry, Hollywood may become a virtual place and real actors will become a cliche with 'voice actor's beginning to take the roll as you can then produce movie level film at garage prices... (look to the nrop industry here first, if they start making virtual stars and its largely successful, give hollywood 3 years after that). As the article say... FULL STEAM AHEAD OFF THAT CLIFF!

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Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 06:29:38 PM »
You guys made some wonderful points. Great discussion, all my thoughts on this subject are already covered...and then some.

Carigamers

Re: UT and Crysis fail to impress... sales figures that is
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 06:29:38 PM »

 


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