OS Reviews ( Mac OS, Linux, Windows , etc)

[disciple]

hey..

recently, there has been a fair amount of linux interest on the board, and a lot of us run different versions, not to mention the impending consumer release of Vista..
so i was thinkin..
perhaps we could do some reviews of the distros we run,( and vista too, when someone gets a copy of the final )

what you guys think?

[TinyGrasshopper]

sounds like a good idea

[disciple]

thanks for the feedback, tiny.

u runnin ubuntu and xubuntu, not so? or was it fc5?

okay, i'll get the ball rollin

OS Kubuntu Edgy 6.10 x86
Time used : 3 months ( 2 months while in beta)
www.kubuntu.org
www.kde.org


Installation

   These days, Kubuntu is installed via livecd. you pop the cd in, and you are sent to a fully functional KDE desktop environment. There is a icon on the desktop entitled 'Install to HD', which launches a pretty straightforward  GUI installer. Here, you choose location and time zone, as well as partition the hard drive. There are three options: erase the disk, use the largest free space available and manually partition. The last two are useful if you're gonna be dual booting, or have an existing data drive you want to preserve. I haven't tested it in Edgy, but from what i remember, GRUB ( the boot manager) will recognise your existing XP installation ( it should be installed first) and offer it as a choice during boot up. Restart, and you're on your way!

Applications

   Since it is a single cd distribution ( or 'distro') , for space needs, the application mix is already chosen. As denoted by the K, in the name, Kubuntu uses KDE ( release 3.55, to be exact) . It comes with Open Office 2.0.4 ( the Edgy version has a nasty bug that causes it to crash sometimes when handling graphics. there is a fixed version out there, but i haven't gotten around to getting it), Firefox 2.0, Kopete ( the IM client, which supports MSN,Yahoo and AIM),Amarok 1.43 ( music player)  and Kaffeine ( Media Player), among others. Due to software patent issues,  MP3 , WMV,AVI and DVD decoding support isn't enabled by default.  For this, you'll need to enable certain repositories in your 'sources.list' file. Post-install, i remove what i don't want, and add what i do.
   For the uninitiated, most distributions use some sort of package management system  Kubuntu uses Adept 2.1 as a front end to the command-line only APT .. you can  still compile your own software from source, if you like, but the repositories are  up-to-date enough for the majority of users.  Some of these repositories contain software that is not officially maintained by Kubuntu, or not under an Open Source license ( like the ATI binaries, or Skype) and can't be officially distributed by them.
    The choice is left up to you to use them, by enabling them in 'sources.list' ( basically a list of repository addresses ).Kubuntu uses an always-running Adept applet(or 'daemon') to monitor to repositories for updated versions of all your software,and should new versions be found, a notification appears in the system tray.

Usability

   KDE on the whole should be very familiar to anyone who has used windows, with regards to the Program Menu , System Tray and Taskbar. Of course 'similar' != 'same', so there are certain things to get accustomed to. For a user coming from Windows, one thing that you immediately notice, is that you are not root. You do not have privileges on anything except your home directory ( this is common in unix-like environments). Whenever you need to access something that requires such privileges, a dialog box comes up prompting for the Administrative password ( or Super User) . On the command line, for those familiar with other distros, kubuntu uses 'sudo' ( Super User DO),e.g. 'sudo apt-get install yakuake', which then prompts you for the super user password. The Start menu itself is organised into a familiar order ( internet, multimedia, office, systems,utilities ). There is also a shortcut to System Settings, where you can customise just about anything (icon set, user login, window borders, window icons, etc). The programs GENERALLY follow the same visual design styles...I'd say about 60-70%, but there are some which were designed to use GTK ( the Gnome ToolKit, for the other popular linux desktop environment, GNOME), and of course, it is evident  ( though Kubuntu can force them to use the same fonts /font sizes as the KDE apps).  You're able to change the default applications and file handlers as well ( change from the default Konqueror browser to firefox, and manage which video player you want to handle which file extension  etc)


Hardware Compatibility

Kubuntu/Ubuntu have come a long way with regards to hardware recognition. In fact, Linux in general. Intel wireless chips (among the most popular) are recognised off the bat, as well as various disk controllers, multimedia keys, joysticks, etc. Of course, problems will exist where only non-free binaries exist( like ATI and Nvidia drivers,or Broadcom wireless firmware) or there is no support at all. Non-free software can't be distributed on the same media as GPL software ( i think) so you'll have to do a bit of work to find it /install it yourself. For example, the volume keys etc on my laptop work after Edgy's installation ( with XP, i have to install software, if i remember correctly, and in Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper, i had to tweak a config file manually) .Power management software is able to correctly throttle my cpu,and cater for ACPI events properly ( i can finally hibernate.. woo hoo!)  but i had to find an extracted firmware from a windows driver for my wireless . Also, although working in earlier versions, powersaving for my LCD is broken  .There's a new power management applet, as well ( imaginatively called 'Power Manager' ) which i don't particularly fancy; it doesn't give you the options of specifying your preferred power profiles, or much in the way of customization,but it's new.. so i'll give it a a shot. 


Eye Candy
Now, you may have heard about Beryl/Compiz. I have,too :-) ,  but support for my chipset (integrated X200M) is still sketchy for now ( thanks a whole heap for the sucky drivers, ATI!) Beryl /Compiz itself is still in its infancy, though, and i had to jump through some hoops to enable it in an an earlier 6.06 install,and even then it was unstable.  When i do, i'll update this part. If you haven't heard of it, it's eye candy along the lines of Vista's Aero, or Apple's Aqua


Community

When i got into Linux seriously last year, i didn't know anyone who was running it ( though i had a freebsd pardna ). First stop was ubuntuforums.org, where i was able to overcome many of the initial hurdles ( issues i had with configuring certain things,  finding out about replacement apps for those i was accustomed to in windows and general knowledge about the command line.  I would say that they were generally very helpful, and knowledgeable... but to be quite honest, sometimes the zealotry was a lil too much.


Conclusion

I'd recommend kubuntu 6.10 to anyone who looking for a change in OS,a distro  for a laptop or just curious about linux. It's very polished and slick, highly customizable and best of all, it's legally FREE :-) As with all things, there is a learning curve, though not as sharp as you may think. You can get away with installation and operation of Kubuntu without ever seeing the command line if you so desired( but i wouldn't recommend this if you want to really learn about Linux)

[TinyGrasshopper]

Very comprehensive. You've set a really good standard. It'll be awhile before I can make one of my own.

[TriniXaeno]

awesome review indeed.

envy immc.

I use breezy badger but only the command line. Hardly ever run X. (don't think I ever did actually) so my review would suck.

last desktop os replacement I tried was mandriva. Worked pretty good but I didn't stick with it for more than a week when it failed at some simple samba tasks. (hence the ubuntu breezy badger)

[Crixx_Creww]

um, for teh linux noob like me

wdmc does KDE mean, yu keep throwing it around grr

been playing around with damn small linux as much as i can, including runnin it in VM, but i still cant say i have an actual use for it.

Hasnt supplanted windows for me in anyway.
Recently been trying to get the net to work from within a vm of DSL, but alas, no go thru the companies proxy, bleh.

I thoroughly enjoying the fact that i can say, hey i have a working os i can run from my flash drive. and thats about it lawl

[Jarrox]

KDE stands for K Desktop Environment well the name is self explanatory there is also Gnome- GNU Object Model Environment which is also a Desktop Environment.... KDE and GNOME are the to popular ones there r others but these are the two rivals KDE i personally would say is more user friendly and is much more prettier.

[vivman1107]

Well, I think a little more explanation might be necessary. In OS's like Windows, you have a standard desktop environment which you can modify to some extent (background, icons, etc.) but you are basically stuck with it. You cannot change the actual Windows desktop environment and use, let's say, a Mac OS desktop environment. In Linux, the desktop environment can be chosen from a variety of choices. The most popular ones are KDE and Gnome. Damn Small Linux and other smaller distros use others which are less memory intensive like Xfce. Programs can be made for specific desktop environments but can also be made to run on others with the corresponding libraries, files, etc. This variety in desktop environments is one of the reasons that Linux can be made to run on almost any hardware. Imagine trying to run Windows XP on a 486, then try running Damn Small on it.

[TinyGrasshopper]

Actually Damn Small Linux is running a Window Manager called Fluxbox not xfce. Note, there is a difference between a window manager and a desktop environment. A Window Manager is the program that draws the windows on the screen. It's the thing that controls window appearance. A desktop environment is the suite of apps(window manager, file manager) that gives you an actual integrated desktop. It's designed to focus more on the integration, the window manager that it uses can't really be used standalone. the window manager for gnome is metacity, for kde it's kwin. the window managers built for a desktop environment typically can't work standalone(i don't think) but others can be plugged into it instead. Examples include Compiz and Beryl which are 3d-enabled window managers. WIndow managers like fluxbox can also be run standalone

[Prowl]

Novell Suse linux review.

Installation.

Suse is distributed either on 5 CDS ( optional 6th with non oss sources ) 1 DVD, a live DVD that can run directly, online internet installation ( 1meg connection or better recommended ) or network install. The installation manager is a full gui that handles partitioning, packages you wish to install, hardware configuration and user management. There is an easy option and advanced installation options for new or experienced users. The full install takes 45 min start to finish. Grub allows dual or multi boot options and auto detects XP partitions.

Applications

Suse by default includes most open source applications, openoffice 2.04, Koffice suite, Amarok 1.44, firefox 2, bittorrent, Kaffine, Real player, gimp ( photoshop for linux ), etc. You have the choice of gnome2.xx or KDE 3.55 xwindows guis and can switch at startup between them., for this Suse is considered the most complete linux distro as far as opensource goes. Once again Suse falls into the non availability to include license codes for mp3, avi, mpeg qt and dvds ( outside of real player which handles them all but will only do so manually, pdf, flash etc also fall under this ). Simple instructions in the readme to add the packman linux source allows you to add the needed libs to handle all common media. it took me 3 min to get amarok to play mp3s and kaffine to play dvds and avis by installing the needed libs in Yast2. The same applies to Nvidia and ATI drivers which need to be downloaded and installed. Currently Suse 10.2 has surpasses ATI's updates and ati cards will not work in 3d untill (ATI) rewrites the driver to work with newer xorg 7.2, this will affect any new linux version using Xorg 7.2 or newer ( 7.3 just released ).
     Yast2 is Suse's app and config manager, it means Yet Another Setup Tool, full featured it works in both xwindows gui and console and can be set to auto update, maunally update or inform of updates as needed. Sources are easily added and auto update.

Hardware

SUSE like most newer Linux easily auto enables and detects most mainstream hardware, even better than XP can. The only problems are with drivers! most decent mother board makers have a full linux driver set like ASUS but once they are opensource SUSE will already have them. Yast detected my 975 board, sound card, printer, logitec mouse, raid controller even Core 2 duo just fine, it only stumbbled on the ATI card, detecting it and using default 1024x768 24bit xga display drivers, this will not change untill ATI fixes their drivers. Also to note certain network cards ( wired and wireless ) while they auto detect will not run with out the needed drivers. Many major makers ( netgear, 3com EVEN CISCO! ) don't have linux drivers for their equipment. The solution is to use ndswrapper that allows well written windows .dlls to be used or in my case ( best case ) look up madwifi or madnic etc for opensource drivers ( MAD as in MADwifi are licensed so Suse can't include them but they are free to download! ).
     The easiest way to setup hardware and install is to look up your hardware, down load the drivers ( rpms! ) on a memory stick and after the initial install when yast asks to verify the config before first reboot tell it to look on the memory stick for new drivers, this also works for the mo3, avi and dvd libs or ati drivers ( when ATI fixes them! ).
     Power saving and laptop compatibility ( including speedstep! ) are fully functional, Suse is a great Os for newer laptops for corp use.


Usability

Suse is known for a long boot up, it loads up alot more than most other distros and looks over everything before it finishes. While this can be painful ( no worse than XP ) it is alot slower than some other distros of linux. Once loaded ( and assuming all the appropriate libs/drivers/rpms are there ) your ready to run anything! open and k office will handle everything MS office 2003 can throw at it and more. KDE and gnome are familiar windows like environments, both can be customized fully with icon packs, fonts ( even windows ones ) and themes ( backgrounds are part of themes ). Unfortunately I can't play with the 3d effects ( vista copied the 3d windows tile thing from KDE! ) until ATI ( running theme here, and yes I will beat it to death! ) fixes their drivers. Other than that Compiz and Beryl are all here ( read better than vista effects ). You can switch between Gnome and KDE at start up to and choose your flavor of main gui.
    Like other linux distros unless you made yourself the root user ( admin ) or gave root access to you you can run/save apps and files but not change configs. This is great if you running linux in an office you can lock everyone out from causing damage!
     Suse is also VERY stable, for a server/workstation this means little down time if any.


Community.

Suse is one of Europe's larges Linux distros, used alot in Corp type environments there and competes well against Redhat/fedora wordwide for enterprise server use as well. Being one of the top 5 distros ( ubantu, redhat/fedora, mandriva, suse, Debian all fight for #1 ) it is very well supported with heavy backing by Novell. Novells support makes this distro look very polished and the community is wide ranging world wide. The large corp big brother also means less dumb app or windows bashing and more helpful ( if at times too correct ) answers. Just look at opensuse.org, suseforums.net . Main site is at Novell.com/linux

Conclusion

For a first time user SUSE isn't to bad to start with as the distribution has easy functions to get you up and running quickly but this is not a linux for everyone. Ubantu and Debian users will be put off but the huge amount of apps initially installed and long boot times ( this is why they left windows after all! ). Suse was made to be an enterprise level desktop for use in servers to workstations will all the needed tools included, it is unfortunate it can't be stripped down for home use easily for a newbie. If your starting a company and need a good OS to run then SUSE can be the answer to MS licenses ( BTW Novell offers 1 yr support per desktop for $50 or $350 per server, try that under MS ), poor MS support and constant virus attacks and IT desk side maintainance.


Written in Firefox 2.0 running SuSE 10.2 Rc1 linux

[W1nTry]

I've dabbled with Linux on a few occasions, rarely by choice... mostly by force being the backend of many a firewall or strictly the console... either way I have to begin working with it more and more since my job somewhat requires it. As far as my desktop experience goes with Linux, i've played with Knoppix (still trying to get my hands on the 64-bit version on a single boot/load cd) and i've dabbled with Mandrake and even Red Hat to some extent (red hat on the corporate not desktop though) and whilst I can do a few things, i'm quite a duck on land, just waddling around mostly. I find some things very tedious and like crixx was unable to browse the net even. My 1 real beef is having soo many install cds. I would much rather 1 dvd or heck just 1 cd, i'll download all the optionals if anything. It is a great OS to be sure, but it has a steeper learning curve than the world+dog accepted windows or even OS X. I will dabble in it again sometime soon I am sure.

[Prowl]

I am at the point I use linux for my daily desktop and windows just to game!

A good distro like Suse, debian, ubuntu/kbuntu will get you up and running with minimal fuss ( SUSE you'll like since it's a windows like learning curve and 1 dvd! ).

[Nephilim]

yeah me too, i find that linux makes use of the x64 architecture and hyper threading capabilities of my processor much more effeciently than winblows.
I use Fedora Core 6.

[Prowl]

I just tried Kbuntu  6.06 live cd, downloading 6.10 now.

I must say if your new to linux try this first, It is ALOT easier than SUSE or fedora.

[Nephilim]

well i though posting on this thread would be necro then i realized it sticky

so after a while i got back into learning nix again (after that fedora raping i get, i wanted something easier) so after a fair amount of dredging i came up with Freespire - http://freespire.org

And after some more dredging it say they had something called CNR - click n' run - in other words a win type installer for nix, i know there is yum and the unbuntu repositories type helpers but this i liked cause even my dumb sister could do it easily. without some of the nix know how the prior two usually require.
I though it was very very easy to install and considering it took <15 mins it was worth it. For those of you who would like to go into the nix, and though that maybe the prior mentioned were a bit too intimidating for you, try this i guarantee you wont be regretful, try this one so easy...a therapist could do it

and for those who use ubuntu, Linspire Inc. (the makers of Freespire) have teamed up with Ubuntu's Canonical Ltd. to bring you the best of two worlds both ubuntu and linspire have teamed up to basically share the best of both distros with each other, unbuntu gets the CNR and Linspire plans to change thier base distro to unbuntu (as is seen in the alpha version of Freespire 2.0) lin gaining ubuntu stability and friendliness's and ubuntu gaining CNR

so expect to see a change in feisty fawn - CNR.
i will post pics in a bit later.

N.B.
min system specs are 800Mhz processor x86
128Mb ram
and a hdd that can hold the os (duh)
(their is currently only a 32bit Freespire, latest nvidia drives wont work)

http://filexoom.com/files/view/45043/snapshot1.png

http://filexoom.com/files/view/45043/snapshot2.png

http://filexoom.com/files/view/45043/snapshot3.png

[Fkacn_tt]

currently using slax 5.1.8 killbill edition, knoppix, backtrack, all of live cd.
would like to know how to install linux to an external hard drive. 

[Eroo]

Since running ubuntu 5.10 its the only linux distro I ever use now. Good new about cnr in the next ubuntu.

[TriniXaeno]

cnr sounds pretty interesting.

I had the recent experience of installing two apps on fedora core 5.

scalix and zimbra.

scalix was a decent gui type install. Windows-ish.

Zimbra used the old school scripted console process. Hardly slick.

Reminiscent of DOS days. Very lame looking.

I am all for the power of scripting and these are server/back end apps after all so maybe I'm being a bit harsh.

Either way, CNR is welcome. Bring it come.

[richjob]

automatix and ubuntu add/remove programs rocks.

[disciple]

OS Kubuntu Feisty 7.04 x86 beta
Time used : 3 weeks)
www.kubuntu.org
www.kde.org


note* this is more of a preview, than full-on review.. more of that to come after the final release

Installation

   as per the previous 6.10 release, kubuntu uses the Ubiquity installer, via a live cd.  had a crash during the install process with the partitioner, but i quickly resolved it ( can't remember the exact details, but i end up setting the partitions in a different manner, and the problem went away
 )..    it's still beta, so thas to be expected.. from there, it went flawlessly, and my settings from the previous edgy 6.10 release were migrated.. so i booted into my own  familiar desktop.    there is another method, for kubuntu users; kubuntu dist upgrade tool. basically, it downloads the files, upgrades your existing apps and gives you a seamless upgrade experience.. unfortunately, it did not work for me..lol,and since i prefer to have a cd on hand for install purposes, i didnt bother to investigate further after the first try. 

what i liked, that edgy did not do, was clean up the menu after an upgrade..previously, you were left with dead entries for programs that you had in your previous installation appearing in the menu ..no more of that ( in a case like mine, where i keep my home directory, regardless of distro or release)

Applications

with the release of kde 4 later this year, the current kde 3.5 series brings mostly bug fixes, with a few refinements here and there.. Fiesty uses KDE 3.5.6, which was already available for the previous Edgy release, so there really weren't any surprises. the usual suspects such as firefox 2.0.0.3, amarok 1.4.5 and open office 2.2.3 were installed.. amarok in particular is a bright star for KDE, imho, which when coupled with a proper database backend like mysql, is a formidable music player for a large collection. new to the fold is Digikam 0.9.1, which is supposedly more robust than the previous 0.8 i used to rock before..  i am seeing more search functions, and tags, i believe.. or perhaps i just never bothered to look before .*grin*       as in the previous release, kaffeine ( media player )  was installed by default, but was removed  as soon as possible..  my media duties are fulfilled by Xine and VLC. One thing that pleasantly surprised me was Network Manager, which worked very well with my chipset ( broadcom 4318), unlike previous releases, where it was somewhat flaky with both the native driver and ndiswrapper..      more on that in usability

Usability

 imagine my surprise, when i ran the fwcutter program ( the program used to separate firmware from the broadcom wireless driver for windows, to use with the linux driver) when it downloaded , cut and installed the firmware, and the little blue wireless light on my machine came on.. i was shocked.. the broadcom chipset has been the bane of my existence for nigh on a year now, and to see it so efficiently dealt with brought tears of joy to my eyes..    no longer would new users have to hunt through the forums or call a linux padna for help! (it's quite popular,the broadcom is..)      nowadays, as well, if you click on a media type like mp3, or avi, it will tell you it's unsupported and ask for your permission to enable the restricted repositories( where software that cannot be distributed under gpl) resides, and install it for you..  a wonderful thing, in my book, again, with noobs in mind.. and linux is better for it ( now some would argue that everything should be in an open standard like ogg or theora or whatever, but we can't escape the fact that these proprietary formats are everywhere)..   kwin, the kde window manager, is a bit unstable, still, imho.. once every 3 days, it may crash, and leave all apps without toolbars..lol. very lousy.. but as i siad before.. it;s still beta. desktop effects has it's own applet now, making it easier to enable compiz/beryl goodness ( 3d effects) as opposed to the previously long process involving  gasoline, a bonfire and 3 hoops of increasing size

Hardware Compatibility

the powersave applet, guidance, that was introduced in edgy, has gotten a MUCH needed adjustment.. in addition to some snazzy new colors, the ability to permanently set a power profile was added ( i.e. take off cpu throttlin while on full power), and the issue with lcd powersaving from the last release was sorted out. the fwcutter story i mentioned above means leaps and bounds  in the hardware compatibilty area, and shows that wireless support in linux is on the up and up.


Eye Candy
i still havent' enabled the beryl/compiz goodness yet.. (having an issue with the new ATI driver.. ughhh) but there is a lil flashiness here and there, with the animation of icons in the tray, as you click on them. minor, but cool.  the process to enable beryl/compiz, reportedly has gotten much simpler..support for the applications is included, but not enabled by default.. more on that later, i hope..  asn as mentioned before, an applet is included to deal with such





Conclusion

still needing of a lil polish around a few of the edges ( STILL BETA..lol. before the haters jump on)  but shaping up quite nicely for the april 19th release.. it will be a formidable distro when that time comes, and a great candidate for almost anyone's desktop.. full review to follow