Author Topic: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?  (Read 7951 times)

Offline disciple

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MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« on: November 02, 2006, 06:35:51 PM »
Quote
At a press conference in San Francisco, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is expected to announce a new partnership between Microsoft and Novell. The unprecedented deal will have Microsoft offering a degree of sales support for Novell's SUSE Linux while both companies work towards better interoperability between their respective operating systems. As part of the agreement, Microsoft also promises not to wield its patent portfolio against SUSE Linux.

In the past, Microsoft has been anything but friendly towards Linux, seeing the open source operating system as a threat, primarily in the server room. Its response has run the gamut from considering a version of Microsoft Office for Linux to sponsoring studies touting cost and ease-of-administration advantages of Windows over Linux. Of course, the FUD slinging has gone both ways over the years, with Linux developers and solutions providers taking swipes at Windows.
The wave of the future

Lurking in the background is virtualization. It's a great tool for those who want to run Windows on their Intel Macs, but where the virtualization software developers like VMware and Microsoft make their big money is in the server room. Virtualization has led to big-time consolidation, enabling IT departments to consolidate tasks such as development, production, and application serving onto a single machine running multiple virtualized operating systems.

From Microsoft's standpoint, virtualization is a good thing, especially when Windows is the host operating system. A close linkage between Microsoft and Novell reinforces Microsoft's message to corporate types that Microsoft's Windows Server and Virtual Server products are serious players, no matter what your mix of operating systems is.
Winners and losers

If there is a big loser here, it's UNIX. A long-time staple of the server room, UNIX has seen its market share erode over the past several years at the expense of both Windows and Linux. Putting talk about Linux on the desktop to the side for now, Microsoft and Linux compete more with UNIX than they do with one another. It's not that big iron UNIX has become passé, it's more that budget 64-bit x86 servers running Linux and Windows are just as capable for many applicaitons.

Novell is a relatively recent newcomer to the world of Linux, having snapped up SUSE Linux almost three years ago to the day. Prior to acquiring SUSE, Novell was perhaps best known for NetWare, a network operating system which used to be widely-used in the enterprise. This new agreement will give Novell more ammunition against its Linux rivals, as SUSE will be the only distribution "certified" and "supported" by Microsoft. Red Hat in particular should be nervous—they're now being squeezed by Microsoft and Novell on one side and Oracle on the other.

NetWare lay at the heart of a long-running legal dispute between Microsoft and Novell. In the mid-1990s, Novell accused Microsoft of withholding key technical information that would enable NetWare to fully interoperate with Windows. That lawsuit dragged out for nearly a decade, with the two companies finally burying the NetWare hatchet in 2004. However, another dispute over WordPerfect remains unresolved. Two years ago, Novell filed a lawsuit accusing Microsoft of anticompetitive practices towards WordPerfect and Quattro Pro while Novell owned those two applications between 1994 and 1996.

In some ways, the deal marks a natural progression for Microsoft. Over the 18 months or so, Microsoft has begun paying more attention to interoperability between its products and those of other vendors. In February 2005, Chairman Bill Gates hailed Microsoft's commitment to interoperability. That led to the establishment of a Linux lab in Redmond, followed by the creation of a Customer Interoperability Council designed to communicate customer needs throughout Microsoft's product divisions.

Virtualization and server consolidation are hot topics in the enterprise right now, and this new partnership between Microsoft and Novell will increase the visibility of both companies in the eyes of CIOs and other IT decision makers. It should also make other players a bit nervous.


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061102-8141.html
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MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« on: November 02, 2006, 06:35:51 PM »

Offline Prowl

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2006, 01:32:41 PM »
also

http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/openletter.html


This is a very good day with suse 10.2 around the corner

also do I hear LINUX GAMES!
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Offline disciple

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2006, 03:06:50 PM »
hmm i just lookin forward to the Office Open XML doc standards.. no more documents lookin weird
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2006, 03:08:56 PM »
hmm i just lookin forward to the Office Open XML doc standards.. no more documents lookin weird

4 real
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2006, 04:45:40 PM »
They're probably rewriting all the docs, now that alot is going to change over the next week

Opensuse 10.2 beta rc2 is in a few days, I'm sure they rushing to stuff new code in.
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2006, 04:45:40 PM »

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2006, 07:22:37 PM »
 Would be nice if they would port over direct X and stuff so we could get linux games.. but most likely Mikewhoresoft is looking to make more money by making their software sellable to companies that use linux, not creating a comptetitor to windows.
http://freetrinipoetry.blogspot.com/

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2006, 10:27:00 PM »
wow. hell's frozen over. In any case this has nothing to do with games only the enterprise. I guess it indicates just how much Microsoft is starting to change. The only fear is that they'll taint the usefulness of Linux as open source, at least for SLED in a misguided effort on Novell's part. All the work that Microsoft will put in may not necessarily be open source defeating the purpose of the OS in the first place. You'll have a bunch of binary components in the stack and noone'll know what they're doing. It'll be like the nvidia drivers, where they found the security exploit the other day. Meanwhile all the open source stuff will have support for Microsoft things making it easier to keep closed source in the stack. Of course that sounds like the kind of conjecture to be found in a LUG mailing list. We'll see how this turns out.
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Offline richjob

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2006, 11:42:49 AM »
Novell is the new SCO.


They may well share the same fate.
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2006, 12:03:09 PM »
how do you figure that one?
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Offline disciple

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2006, 12:25:30 PM »
well the majority of the open source movement seems to be quite apprehensive about it..

( and from a historical point of view, no one ever gets ahead by being MS friend.. case in point, IBM and OS/2.. )

Quote
Often cast as the peacemaker in free software disputes, Bruce Perens is on the warpath.

When we caught up with him, he wasn't in a mood to be charitable to Novell. On Friday the Utah company, which markets the SuSE Linux distribution, revealed that it was entering into a partnership with Microsoft. Redmond would pay Novell an undisclosed sum in return for Novell recognizing Microsoft's intellectual property claims. Novell received a "Covenant" promising that it wouldn't be sued by Microsoft.

"It's a case of 'Damn the people who write the software'", he told us. "Novell is in a desperate position - it has a smaller share of the market than Debian," he told us.

Actually, Novell did eke out a small profit in the most recent quarter: $11m on sales of $241m. But its been a rough year, with the company losing its CEO and Chairman in June. Revenues from Novell's long term cash cow, Netware, declined 20 per cent year on year, and Linux revenue is negligable by comparison: just $11m.

Was the deal even legitimate, we wondered?

"Novell is violating the GPL," he tells us. "It's up to the Free Software Foundation, which owns the copyright, to pursue this. But the FSF owns the C library and the compiler outright. There isn't much Novell can do without either."

Perens also urged users to be cautious.

"We should note that the promise is revocable. Microsoft can withdraw it - change or discontinue it - at any time. You can't depend on any promises made here."

The timing also smelt a bit fishy, he thought.

"Coming just as the SCO case is winding down, the timing is interesting. Novell is the new SCO."

Ouch.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/07/perens_on_ms_novell/
bruce didn't state how exactly they violate the GPL,  however

i wonder what's the FSF's official position.........

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Offline TinyGrasshopper

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2006, 02:27:41 PM »
Well there's no doubt of the high probability of Novell getting screwed over, but I don't think Novell will be suing people the way that SCO did.
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2006, 08:25:09 AM »
The 'truth' reveals itself and it's NOT promising for Linux... gasps...
Quote
Microsoft owns Linux now, Ballmer claims

Talking tough

By Nick Farrell: Monday 20 November 2006, 06:37
Click here to find out more!
MICROSOFT'S shy and retiring boss Steve 'there's a kind of hush' Ballmer might be gearing up to take Linux distributors to the cleaners.

According to Linux World, Ballmer is whispering to all who can hear that Linux infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property.

Speaking at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said that Vole signed a deal with SuSE Linux distributor Novell because the outfit was using Microsoft's intellectual property.

He said that the deal was a way for Vole to get an 'appropriate economic return' for its shareholders from Microsoft's innovation.

The statement is the first from Ballmer which places the Novosoft deal in context and indicates what Microsoft might do to try and shaft Linux.

Now it appears that the key part of the deal was that Vole was not going to sue SuSE Linux users over possible patent violations.

Ballmer said that the deal meant that Novell paid Vole money for the right to tell customers that anybody who uses SuSE Linux that it is appropriately covered from legal action by Microsoft. He said this meant that everyone who used Linux was an "undisclosed balance-sheet liability" and we know how Steve deals with them.

In other words it is only a matter of time before Vole starts chasing Linux users who are not using Suse.

Ballmer said that other Linux outfits were welcome to join in the Novosoft deal. This would have the advantage that they would not be sued into a coma by Volish briefs, but mean that they would have to work out a way to pay Vole. µ

More http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;2;fpid;1

0_o not good.... and I not much of a linux user...

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2006, 08:38:43 AM »
*yawn*
monkey boy ballmer can say all he wants..   

where is the proof of said patent infrigement? hmm? hmm?
since when has MS been shy about sueing people/issuing cease and desist orders

another steaming load of fud from the horses' a$$
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Offline W1nTry

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2006, 08:51:17 AM »
*yawn*
monkey boy ballmer can say all he wants..   

where is the proof of said patent infrigement? hmm? hmm?
since when has MS been shy about sueing people/issuing cease and desist orders

another steaming load of fud from the horses' a$$
I hope so. I wasn't looking at it from a RIAA suing the world perspective, but rather the major linux distros point of view.

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2006, 11:08:09 AM »
but thas just it, winny

wha ballsy sayin is that linux infringes on ms patents, and that those who eh sign a agreement with them can be sued

which is nonsense, as i said, cuz MS usual mode is 1) take over the market or 2) sue out of existance

they cah do 1) cuz that would mean that they would have to comply with the GPL (and share code for free)   and everyone would benefit ( and MS doh like to share)


and they cah do 2) cuz they have no grounds.. they would have long done it( sued) if it were possible

lol but next ting i dead wrong and the man have valid claims

pfft.. yeh.. right..
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Offline TinyGrasshopper

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 11:43:21 AM »
This represents an interesting juncture for Linux. This amounts to Ballmer threatening to sue all of Linux out of existence. He wouldn't be saying this unless he knows there was some patent infringement somewhere. Straight out suing would be a terrible idea so it looks like he's trying to whittle down linux as a community. It'll never work but that looks like their strategy.
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2006, 09:37:29 PM »

Quote
update Novell's CEO on Monday issued a letter to the open-source community disputing Microsoft's contention that Linux infringes on Microsoft patents.

In the open letter, Novell's Ron Hovsepian outlined the rationale behind an agreement, signed early this month, under which Microsoft will offer support and legal idemnification for users of Suse Linux, a Novell product line. The two companies also agreed to work on product interoperability.
Ballmer Hovsepian

Hovsepian also took issue with comments made by CEO Steve Ballmer last week that Linux "uses our patented intellectual property."

The deal between Microsoft and Novell calls for the two companies not to sue each other's customers over patent issues.

But that patent provision, Hovsepian said, did not amount to an admission that Suse Linux infringes on Microsoft's patents.

"We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents. Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents," Hovsepian said.

A Microsoft representative on Monday issued a response to the Novell letter, saying the two companies disagree on this point.

http://news.com.com/Microsoft%2C+Novell+spar+over+Linux+agreement/2100-7344_3-6137444.html?tag=nefd.top
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2006, 08:15:46 AM »
More:
Quote
Microsoft's Ballmer forced to eat his Linux words

PR disasters of our time

By Nick Farrell: Wednesday 22 November 2006, 08:25
Click here to find out more!
MICROSOFT CEO Steve Ballmer has triggered a PR nightmare for his firme over his threats to down Linux with intellectual property based lawsuits.

Not only has his new Linux chum Novell issued a statement which said it disagreed with what Steve whispered to the press, Volish spinners have had to issue a statement toning down his original comments.

Ballmer had claimed that Microsoft's patent cooperation agreement it pushed on partner Novell was a way to protect corporate users of the SUSE Linux operating system from potential lawsuits.

Computerworld hacks have found a few SuSE Linux customers fuming at being called a "undisclosed balance sheet liability" by Ballmer and were never worried about being sued by Microsoft.

sheesh kebabBarry Strasnick, CIO of financial services provider CitiStreet told Computerworld that he took great offence to Ballmer's comments. He said that if Ballmer thought that Microsoft really thinks there is some code in Linux that violates its patents, it should publish those lines of codes immediately, instead of just posturing in the press.

Strasnick said that fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) might have worked for Microsoft when it was shafting IBM in the 1970s but not today.

It seems that Ballmer's comments might backfire with some CIOs indicating that they will not move to Volish platforms in the wake of Ballmer's comments. µ
LMAO!

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2006, 10:38:06 AM »
The only things I can think of that may constitute infringement on Linux side would be stuff like Wine, Cedega, Crossover, Samba and maybe Windows codecs and fonts. Everything else seems to have little, if anything, to do with Microsoft.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 10:40:05 AM by vivman1107 »

Offline disciple

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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2006, 02:48:58 PM »
nah viv.. none of them impinge on ms patents, as far as i understand


.... apparently for now it is legal to reverse engineer software that can implement services or protocols of  another  as long as you don't copy their code, or never have seen it ( clean room implementation)

( case in point, when whoever it  was, back in the day developed a functional equivalent of the IBM PC's BIOS)



samba uses smb, yes but smb is a open protocol (developed initially at IBM) . MS modified it heavily for their use, but samba is reverse engineered

wine doesn't ship with MS DLLs ( though you have the option of utilising MS DLLs, the onus is on you to that.. other DLLs are again, reverse engineeered)

i never use cedega, but being wine-related, same story, i guess


the windows font pack was made freely available by MS, and the EULA stated that you could use it once yuh doh change the name, and it not used to add value to commercial software ( so a distro cah ship with it, but you could install it yourself)

the codecs are also reverse engineered ( WMV  on linux sucks, imho)


the thing about open source is that you have a chance to see what goin on under the hood; you know exactly what is there and what isnt
and had they been at fault, they would have been the recipient of a cease and desist at the very least.. ( remember when that yuteman called mike rowe had the mikerowesoft.com site,  they drop on him like a mampee in jouvert?)

there might be a chance that some infringement went on, i eh go lie.. but that chance real small..
but then again, microsoft holds LOTS of patents, and with the state of software patents in the US, yuh never know
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Re: MS & Novell sign deal to support SuSE linux?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2006, 02:48:58 PM »

 


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