Author Topic: !EVERYTHING! PS3  (Read 756518 times)

Offline ProtoJoe

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2006, 02:22:00 PM »
Yea, its true..... I dunno why I'm fighting it down for, I'm still excited about the PS3, and I still wanna get one....but just not as badly as before....sigh :(

But they still have the rest of this year to make back up, they have a Playstation conference in august, and Tokyo Game Show in september. If by TGS I still feel the same way, well I know whats going to go down...

Carigamers

Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2006, 02:22:00 PM »

Offline SPK

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2006, 05:41:12 PM »
I'm gonna give it a couple years before I get a PS3, but definitely will get a Wii within a few months of launch, assuming that their estimated pricing holds true!

*still drooling at playing a samurai game with that controller...* I will make a damn attachment for that controller to make it look like a sword if I have to!!!! :D
Nagamete iru dake ja, itsumademo te ni dekinai...nagamete iru dake ja, kimi no mono ni wa naranai...

ssssssSSSSSSS...That's a nice everything you got there....SSSSSSS.

Offline Redlum08

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2006, 03:25:11 AM »
I'll get a Wii and a PS3, 3 consoles to rule them all!! MUHAHAHAHA  :wacko:


Offline W1nTry

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2006, 09:05:15 AM »
This sounds completely and TOTALLY AWFUL for the PS3:
Quote
PS3 hardware slow and broken

In words and pictures


By Charlie Demerjian in Taipei: Monday 05 June 2006, 03:35

 AFTER BREAKING THE news to me about PS3 RSX speeds earlier on the flight to Japan, my row-mate said 'if you think that's interesting, wait till you see this. Cell is hurting, badly'.
For those of you that believe in religions with karmic tendencies, scoops like this meant one of two things, the wings of the plane are about to fall off and I am going to die in a fiery ball, or worse yet, the movie selection will be worrisome. Cell memory access appears to be broken, RSX has half the triangle setup rate of the ATI chip in XBox360, and the true horror, Big Momma's House 2 and a Queen Latifa movie.

With the movie selection still making my brain throb from the glances I caught, I furiously took notes on what the source was saying. He started out saying that the RSX can only write about half as much vertex data as it can fetch, not an ideal situation by any stretch, but survivable.

Then came the horrible news, RSX appears to be limited to setting up 275 Million triangles/second, anemic compared to the 500+ million in XBox360. When asked about this apparent thumping dished out by MS, the reply from one notable ISV relations boffin was a terse 'What a Piece of Junk'. Talk about a steak in the heart.

Half the triangle setup capability in the PS3, could things get worse? Yes, far far worse, how about another disparity of three orders of magnitude? No, I am not joking, looking at Sony's own figures, Cell appears to be pretty badly broken.



For main memory, it looks like Cell has about 25GBps of main memory bandwidth, and RSX is about 15-20GBps. Achievable bandwidth is between about two thirds of that and nearly 100%, clearly the elves in the caves surrounding Rambus central did something right with XDR. That is the happy news.

For local memory, the measured vs theoretical bandwidth is missing, I wonder why? RSX is at a solid 22.4GBps for both read and write, good job there green team. Then comes the blue team with Cell. Local memory write is about 4GBps, 40% of the next slowest bandwidth there. Then comes the bomb from hell, the Cell local memory read bandwidth is a stunning 16MBps, note that is a capital M to connote Mega vs a capital G to connote Giga. This is a three order of magnitude oopsie, and it is an oopsie, as Sony put it "(no, this isn't a typo...)".

If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes Cell local memory just about useless. That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless. This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems. Basically, if this Sony presentation to PS3 devs shown to us is correct, it looks like PS3 will be hobbled in a serious way.

The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory, but write to main memory with RSX(tm) and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers. This is very very bad. The number of times the presentation goes on to say that it is correct, and the lack of anything like "this will be fixed by production steppings, so take measures X, Y and Z" say to me that it is not a fixable snafu. Remember at E3 when I said that the PS3 demos there were object sparse? Any guesses why?

Someone screwed up so badly it looks like it will relegate the console to second place behind the 360. All the devs I talked to were lukewarm on the 360 architecture but universally negative on the PS3. Revelations like this go a long way to explain why you keep hearing about simmering problems from the Sony devs.

You end up with a console with half the triangle setup rate of the 360, a crippled CPU that is a bitch to program, and tools that are atrocious compared to the 360. To make matters worse, you have an arrogant set of execs telling us that twice the price is worth it for half the power, a year late. If it isn't already too late, Sony had better do something about this recto-cranial inversion or it may very well sink the console.

Offline disciple

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2006, 06:01:28 PM »
hmm.. like IBM muffed this one, dred.. lol

but i guess thas wha happen when you let so much ride on an unproven technology

say wha.. they still makin money off 360 an wii,yes..


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Carigamers

Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2006, 06:01:28 PM »

Offline Redlum08

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2006, 11:26:46 PM »
Now aren't you glad I bought you a 360 W1nTry? hehheh heh :wacko:


Offline W1nTry

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2006, 08:19:20 AM »
Yeah now all I hadda do is get Live... working on the DSL but location is questionable right now.... so I go see.. that aside I bought Oblivion and the DAMN thing needed to be ONLINE to start playing... welll dread I coulda shoot someone in MS for dat snafu. NO warning on the labelling, NO sticker saying ONLINE ACCESS required. I carry it by a padna wit DSL though so I get the hook up, but that is $hit to get sue for, MS shoudl know better.

Offline Redlum08

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2006, 03:19:08 PM »
Well let me know when you get connected and I will open the account


Offline W1nTry

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2006, 09:14:40 AM »
More bad news in Sony it appears:
Quote
More problems beset the PS3

Kotaku spills the beans


By Charlie Demerjian in Taipei: Monday 12 June 2006, 09:15

 LOOKS LIKE THE PS3 is getting to be a better 'value' every day according to Sony's slightly reality-tangential maths.
Rumours heard by the site Kotaku back up several of the things whispered in our ears over the past month or three and add a few more.

We were told that the PS3 components were way too large to fit into the case, and the fact that there are no betas, and serious talk of an external PSU don't do much to harm the faith I had in my source. As a note to the twits who still insist that they saw a 'working PS3' at E3, you were taken for a ride, get over it. Next time, learn the basics of conning the stupid, and look for them. Either way, I get this sneaking suspicion that we may see a PS3 case 'upgrade' before the ship date.

Then they go on to say the clocks may be reduced to 2.8GHz. Gosh, who would have ever thought that would happen? Yep, 'horrible' yields mean high defectivity or low specs, and it looks like the low specs are rearing their ugly heads. 2.8 with 7 SPEs it is, for now anyway. Ugly part II.

As for the RSX performance, I have already weighed in on that one, so no more beating a dead horse. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, just that it is underspecced compared to the ATI chip. It is a G7x with some chipset functionality welded on, and NVidia should have little problem delivering this part on time and on budget. If there is any problem, it is because Sony asked for the wrong set of numbers.

Whatever the case, my sources back up Kotaku almost perfectly. Sony looks to have one heck of an expensive Zepplin launching in the jet age. If they toned down the arrogance a notch or 12, and started engaging the parts of the press that aren't sycophantic suck-ups, they might be able to either get their side out, or blunt the oncoming storm. Sadly, in typical fashion, they go charging ahead while large chunks of the spec sheet peel off and land in the gutter behind their victorious advance. I did so want this console to be good. µ

Ah well, tough luck I guess. I hope they still not laughing at Nintendo, cause as things keep getting delayed and spec'ed down, they're in a Wii bit of trouble it appears.

Offline Redlum08

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2006, 08:11:14 PM »
A Wii bit indeed! LOL and a big 360/2 from months ago when they said the Cell was this powerhouse that was gonna outspec the Microsoft machine. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Looks like all the PS3 men should be bowing down to the power of the 360. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 08:37:41 PM by New_Era_Outlaw »


Offline W1nTry

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2006, 08:05:16 AM »
LMAO @ Masterchief, on a side note, dread check yuh email I hadda talk to yuh.

Offline Falener

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2006, 07:44:15 PM »
What the hell is going on with sony, they releasing systems at an all high price and they seem to give problems. Now I hear this. I am big sony fan but they are doing mess with their systems, and for 600USD they better fix those problems (imagine buying it at that price and it gives problems). I am gonna get a Wii for sure but I don't like Microsoft because most of the great games that come out for it also comes out on the PC. Plus no innovation on their part.

Offline ProtoJoe

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2006, 08:21:20 PM »
Ok, well...I find it intersing that in the ps3 thread ppl are only posting bad news...and WRONG bad news at taht, lol.

Remember that rumour awhile ago with the 'protection' on ps3 that alowed you to play one game on one system alone...guess who 'released' that information...Kotaku, yep. And other sources of these news are from like the inquirer and stuff.... So i wouldnt take them too likely...

Honestly... Just give it some time...

Offline Xenos

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #113 on: June 14, 2006, 02:22:20 PM »
most (read what i said, m-o-s-t so i eh really want to hear the crap about whose not a fanboy and shit like that) of the people that posting up the supposed bad stuff are the xbox fanboys too, i'm sure there was a lot of rumored crap about the 360 but i can't remember  seeing a xbox 360 thread turning in to a bashing thread like what people tend to be doing now.

either way we don't really know whats up with the ps3 until it's actually out, in time we'll see whats really going on.
as much of a fanboy i am u'll be hearing my curses if it turns out be be crap, but the console isn't out yet, therefore i choose not to say much on the console and more on the games that will be coming out, have some fate that sony knows what they're doing, they lead the gaming market for 2 generations after all
« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 04:47:37 PM by W1nTry »

Offline shivadee

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #114 on: June 14, 2006, 02:49:14 PM »
after playing those games at E3 on the PS3 i dont see any reason to buy that system as yet. The PS3 launch just like the PS2 launch and the release of othergames in the vicinity of the PS2 launch.
PS2 launched with Ridge Racer 4, Tekken Tag and then later on GT3 A-spec and a set of games everyone forgets. Remember Smuglers Run? BIG talk about how long it takes to cross a map and how much they can do to it......who playing or even remember half of those launch games?
PS3 launches with Ridge Racer 7, Tekken 6 and GTHD. Then a set of forgetable games. Just like the XBOX 360 no one remember Condemned, Tony Hawk American Wasteland, Amped 3 and KAmeo followed by Full Auto and such. Who even want them games now?
Same way PS3 launching with games that i see G4 REAL bigging up like Warhawk and Heavenly Sword. I played both....meh. And if you want to talk graphics the devs of Heavenly Sword said that is the most graphics they can pushout of the PS3 for that demo. GTHD and stuff have a long way to go still.
Only thing im seeing is MGS4, and personally i not shelling out 6 bill and then the cost of a game for one game.

I would say the same for the 360. Yes Gears of War is great, but its co op multiplayer, but replay value means the gamplay has to be compelling....seeing one stage is not enough, and not seeing any boss battles. So that game is in reserve for final comment. The rest....Dead Rising i was not impressed, even graphically. When the devs of Lost PLanet dindnt understand when i said the "stay warm in the cold" felt like THE THING.....because they didnt even know the game was out..i lost faith right there...the game is ok.
Crackdown was complete crap, Ninety Nine Nights looks just like a Dynasty Warriors...but ill keep that in reserve. Too Human is a nice game.
well then the cross platform games, some good ones, FEAR for 360, finally. PREY looks good too, the multiplayer feels like UT which is always a nice thing. Rainbow Six Vegas is amazing, the new Splinter Cell looks great, but i didnt get to play it, just watch it.

After E3 i would tell anyone, Go PC and buy a Wii. The 360 and PS3 has nothing inovative, if you must buy one of those get a 360 now...and wait about a year for the PS3 to get its really good games out there. Right now the system with its release isnt worth that money......no Blu Ray yet....so hold on till those come out.

Offline Kaizen

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #115 on: June 14, 2006, 04:01:45 PM »
 :wacko: wee boy this thread gettin hot
yep xbox threads got bashed as well meh boys ..but this is sony  :wacko: wat u want? say some to defend it?
 :wacko:wait out and see the final product but for now
this seems like a line up for me

Pc
wii
360
ds :wub:

 :wacko: also @ protos statement all of this right now is rumours so i dont really take on the bashing i just can hope that they lower that price ..
cause hell >_< i want a ps3 to!



Offline W1nTry

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #116 on: June 14, 2006, 04:46:33 PM »
Since I am one of those reffered to as PS3 bashing, i'll have you know I post on the Xbox shortfalls as well, from the simple they didn't take off the plastic on the vents causing overheating to the freeze up and crash completely, I doh discriminate either way or the other being  360 owner. I AM however a MOD and no cussing will be tolerated on the forum, feel free to get angry but remember there are kiddies in here too, thats all we ask.

Now onto the matter at hand, let me show how Sony loves it's fans as it BLATANTLY is quoted as saying basically Sony fanboys are DUMB CATTLE that will utlimately ensure they get their brand spanking new Ferari at the end of the financial year, read:

Quote
Why people hate Sony

Comment The usual: Ego, arrogance, lies, delays


By Martin Lynch: Wednesday 14 June 2006, 11:32

"We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it [the PS3], whatever it is, even if it didn't have games." David Reeves, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.
LIKE A cartoon character, my mouth fell open this morning when I read this quote from a recent interview in CVG. The words that spilled out are not fit for a family audience. In that one sentence was all the proof needed to show that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sadly though, it doesn’t make Reeves wrong, since the maths will prove him correct. We will prove him correct. When I say 'we' I’m speaking of the collective console cattle that will buy the PS3 regardless of cost, performance, delays, lack of games, etc. Not the discerning, informed, cynical, back-stabbing and frighteningly knowledgeable INQ readers.

It's just the arrogance of the statement, regardless of truth, that has a growing number of people seriously looking for any reason not to buy another Sony product. A real “love the product/hate the company” attitude is building.

I own four Sony products. I’m telling you this before some Sony groupies start flaming me as a "Sony is the Devil" advocate. It is not. Merely a minor Demon Lord with ambitions, a sharpened knife and a well-thumbed copy of Julius Caesar tucked behind its pointy tail.

Over the past five years I have bought a Sony AV home cinema receiver, a small hi-fi, a PS2 and a notebook. With regard to the first and second products, they were the best in their class according to numerous reviews in consumer electronics publications. I tend to buy according to performance, not brand. The PS2 is two years old and was bought for my son but then sneakily, er, re-acquired by me. Research, you know? The Vaio notebook was – shock, horror - good value in a Christmas sale.

Let’s look at the basis for the arrogance though because it’s all based on fact. You probably saw some of the console sales figures yesterday but, if not, here’s the shocking update. The PS2 is kicking the Xbox 360’s ass. That’s right, the six-year old console is still outselling the brand spanking new, next-gen 360 – at least in the US. But since that market is so damn big, it’s a good general indicator. Since the launch of the Xbox 360, sales have averaged 246,000 units per month. During the same period, PS2 sales have averaged more than 470,000 a month. That’s an astounding stat but the fact is that the PS2 is still the key development platform for games and will remain so for some time. It is Sony’s cash-cow, something it freely admits. And, it will have to remain so since the whopping price tag on the PS3 rules it out as a mainstream console for at least a year after launch – maybe for good?

Truth aside, back to that damned quote. It leaves a bad taste and it perfectly illustrates the kind of arrogance permeating everything that Sony has done on the consumer front in the past few years. From Blu-Ray to the PSP to the DRM scandal to the PS3, Sony has pretty much steamrolled punters. Still, most people vote with their pockets and Sony knows it. But has it stopped listening to its fans, its customers – the rabid, bleeding-edge customers that will make up a massive part of the shopping vanguard for the PS3? It certainly looks like it.

A scan of some of the leading Sony fan sites shows a dangerous level of disappointment. One of the biggest gripes is that the PS3 has lost its shine. Much of the excitement they once harboured for the PS3 has been replaced by dejection because most of the news surrounding the PS3 is bad news. From delays, changing hardware specs, dodgy public demos and a ludicrous price tag, they want to know when Sony is going to announce something good. And that’s just it. Sony is hiding in its fortress. Microsoft is having a field day comparing the PS3 to Betamax. While veracity has little to do with the ‘war of words’ the general negativity is spilling over into the ‘real’ world. Lazy tech reporters on mainstream newspapers, sites and news programmes are now airing the mistakes and lies us nerds have been tracking for years.

Sony fans are jaded while marginal gamers and potential high-definition customers are taking a wait-and-see approach. Sony’s not listening to its fans because it doesn’t have to. A large number of gamers are resigned to the fact that their PS2 will remain their platform of choice for at least another 18 months. And why not, it’s cheap as hell and the games keep on coming.

Sadly, not enough people will know or care about Sony’s indiscretions to stop good, but not great, PS3 sales. The cattle will take their wallets and kids to PC World when the new Playstation hits because that’s what they have always done. But underneath the sales, all is not well in paradise. The Sony crown has lost its shine and the company’s shoddy treatment of customers and fans, coupled with its unhealthy fascination with copyright protection technology, spells long-term trouble on way. µ

After your illustrious CEO David has basically said you guys are DUMB and will buy the product if it works or not... how does that make you feel? Ah well buy away I suppose :p

Offline Xenos

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #117 on: June 16, 2006, 02:35:17 PM »
well fot that reason is usualy better not to rush and buy a console as soon as it's out, the first yet usually have bugs and other shit people will be complaining about.

Quote
After your illustrious CEO David has basically said you guys are DUMB and will buy the product if it works or not... how does that make you feel? Ah well buy away I suppose :p
sadly there are dumb people that would do that, unless a good game that i want is out there's no point in buying anything right? my reason for not buying a 360 and my reason for considering a wii. also my reason for buying a ps3 if it really delivers and tekken6 pwns

Offline ProtoJoe

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #118 on: June 16, 2006, 03:34:49 PM »
Quote
Sony spokesperson Jonathan Fargher told Eurogamer: "The PS3 downgrade story is categorically not true.
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"Developers have been working with PS3 dev kits for anywhere between eight and 12 months, and to suggest that we'd now take the decision to downgrade the hardware at such a late stage, is, well, ridiculous.

"Worse still is the suggestion that we couldn't fit all the technical components into a plastic box," Fargher continued.

"Granted, whilst all products are not perfect, we do have over 40 years of experience making consumer electronics equipment, and therefore, extensive experience in making things fit - PSone and Slimline PS2 being just two examples of that."

Just alittle FYI....

And let me just point this out...why is it everyone is bashing sony so much? In all honesty, if sony was doing so much mess, would the competetion point it out, or just let them run themselves into the ground? But seriously though....why is it everyone(or really MS) is giving sony such a hard time?(btw....those were retorical questions...)

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Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #119 on: June 16, 2006, 03:37:01 PM »
oh why dont u all just bloody hell calm down  :wub:
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 03:43:30 PM by Kaizen »



Carigamers

Re: !EVERYTHING! PS3
« Reply #119 on: June 16, 2006, 03:37:01 PM »

 


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