Video Editing PC

[Saxito Pau]

I was recently approached by a pardner of mine whose arse I saved by helping him get some video editing project from his PC to his mac (t'was as simple as sticking a spare dvd burner I had lying around in his pc...)

He decides he wants me to build him a video editing computer...

Now I've done some research at a site named http://www.videoguys.com

Based on the site's recommendations I have chosen this as my proposed specs:

CASE:  Thermaltake Tsunami
PROCESSOR: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+, socket 939
POWER SUPPLY UNIT: Thermaltake PurePower 500W, Modular
RAM: Kingston or Crucial 2GB DDR (2 x 1GB), matched pair, dual channel (value RAM)
VIDEO CARD: Matrox Millenium P650 PCI-E 128MB
HARD DRIVE 1 (OS): Western Digital 74GB 10,000 RPM SATA Raptor
HARD DRIVES 2 & 3: reuse customer's SATA drives in RAID-0 for loading video files
HARD DRIVE 4 : SATA 300GB for backups
FLOPPY DRIVE: standard 3.5" floppy
OPTICAL DRIVE 1: Pioneer 16X DVD-RW
OPTICAL DRIVE 2: DVD Burner with LightScribe feature
SOUND CARD: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 4 (basic)
LAN: onboard
SPEAKERS: customer supplied
KEYBOARD Standard Keyboard
MOUSE: Apple Mighty Mouse or a Laser Mouse
OS: Windows XP Pro SP2 OEM
POWER PROTECTION: APC 750VA UPS

Estimated final cost (without labour): TT$15,000

I'd like some feedback on this:

What you'd use instead and why with respect to video editing (conroe fanboys welcome as well!), share your preferred specs, anything I can do better and even where to source these parts. If you have had any experience in building video editing PCs, definitely share your tips....

Nforce 4 was the chosen chipset for maturity... I thought about conroe but in my opinion (bar arguments to the contrary) I not sure about the stability of the chipsets for conroe, and I just not taking any chances with stability for this guy... he intends to spend... and I will make him spend.

As for the monitor, he currently has a dell 19 inch LCD... but i'd suggest to him about getting dual LCD displays to improve his workrate, and the my research on the matrox video card has "true" dual display support for his needs.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

 Core 2 duo will be faster  , especially after overclock...


 if you want a motherboard...  *hint *hint

[Arcmanov]

De man say he not sure about Conroe chipsets boy!!!  Yuh harden!!?

The most important component with respect to video editing is of course, the CPU.
Methinks you definitely cannot go wrong with the 4800 X2.  The stock speed is such that
there will be no need to OC it.  Also if any of the apps your client is using are multithreaded,
then the benefits are immediate.

Nforce 4 as you put it, has reached as far as it can go with respect to optimisation, so yuh could
close yuh eye and not have to worry about the PC crashin all the time if yuh doin something memory/CPU intensive.

I notice yuh didnt put a motherboard.  May I recommend the EXCELLENT MSI Neo4 Diamond, or the Asus A8N-E Deluxe.

If yuh able to order the parts from Newegg or Tigerdirect, yuh might save a nice piece a money.

[Saxito Pau]

Thanks for noticing about the motherboard, Arcman. I DID actually choose one (how de hell I forget to include it?)

I had chosen the Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe but your suggestions will be taken into consideration.

(I personlly like MSI products..have a board, agp card and tv card from them)...

I'll have a hard time with a final choice of board.

[Prowl]

I am building a video editing station atm. Honestly intel has always had the lead in media encoding but the 4800 is in a sweet price point now so it's a toss for price vs performance. Either a core 2 duo e6400 or 4800+ will work well. Btw videoguys do recommend core over amd for it's improved rendering performance. Also raid 0? he should raid 10 mirror and stripe, editing does not take much bandwidth but throwing around the large files ( 13gig per hour ) video files for editing needs some power but also need secure backups. you'll need more drives for raid 10.

For a monitor look at the new wide 20.5" lcds, the aspect ratio is 16x10, closer to 16x9 for widescreen work. In normal 4:3 work the extra width helps place tool bars to the side using a full sized window for preview For a PSU try and get 600w or more, hds take more power than you think and having alot means your gonna need more power than normal as well and raptors drink 15% more juice than their 7200 rpm brothers.

Video cards need some balls for modern video as HD is comming around, HDV can bring an otherwise excellent system to it's knees in both editing, rendering and playback so make sure your card can handle it. Also svideo out for previewing on a tv is a must, here ati card do well especially the AIW ( all in wonder ) series for composite capture and play back, this is just incase your using an older vid cam thats not firewire. Mentioning fire wire make damn sure the main board has built in fire wire, you'd be surprised which ones don't!

You should also know I am building a video editing workstation, I should have it @ 12,000TT see below.

[Saxito Pau]

Well I can say with some certainty that I gonna have to give the edge to price, as this guy's mom is talking about loan and all that.

I made a proper look at his PC last night... is a wonder that he been getting his work done:

Biostar GeForce 6100 motherboard w/onboard video
"Typical" basic case
Athlon 64 3200+ socket 939
1GB unmatched DDR RAM (a super talent and some other brand in dual channel)
450W generic PSU
160GB IDE HDD for OS w/ dedicated HDD cooler
240GB (2 x 120GB) SATA HDD in RAID-0
CD-RW/DVD combo (WTF?? no DVD Burner? I stick in one last night though)
PCI Firewire 400 card
PCI Firewire 800 card

Dude had poor ventilation..  wires bunched up a nd suspended in the middle of the case. His raid drives were running at over 50 degrees Celcisus!! In aircon!! A lone 80mm extractor fan pulling what??

After discussions with his mom... it looks like this upgrade go have to be done in stages...
Phase 1: The critical hardware he needs NOW to ensure that for the while he will have as little problems as possible with his current system, but will also remain in his final system;
Phase 2: slowly but surely acquiring the parts for his ultimate system

I decide that this go be his must-get-NOW hardware:

PSU:
Ultra Products X2 550W Modular PSU - Titanium (ULT31851)
I'd really like to go for a 600W modular as the one I quote above is only about 70% efficiency. If you have any specific model you think I should use instead, let me know asap

COOLING:
I'm gonna stick (literally with a glue gun!) a spare 120mm FAM I have in the front of his case interior to cool those RAID drives (I get a pack of FIVE for just US$10.00!)

POWER PROTECTION:
APC 750VA UPS - he should get up to half hour run time on that in case of power outage, especially as he has an LCD monitor.

VIDEO CARD:
Matrox Millennium P650 PCI-E 128 or
Matrox Parhelia APVe PCI-E 128MB
The Parhelia is over US$320 and has HDTV output support; the P650 is just US$250... the card I choose here is what he will use right thru
http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstation/cre_pro/products/apve/home.cfm

HARD DRIVE (for backups)
Going with a WD or Seagate 300GB SATA
Is the largest drive available locally -think warranty!- I'm not sure yet if I wanna go internal or external, but if I go external... I wanna get one of those eSATA enclosures, I hear they even faster than firewire (with that in mind, I better look for a board with eSATA built-in when the time comes)

MEMORY:
Kingston or Crucial 1GB DDR Kit; PC3200, 2 x 512MB (Value RAM)
I know, I probably ought to be using DDR2... Well when they ready to upgrade their board I can make it so; but like I said ealier, If those Core 2 Duo processors have stable chipsets I'll go that way (somebody convince me!), otherwise I go stick with a AM2 Dual Core 4800+. Feel free to suggest any particular RAM for conroe or AM2 you have already tested as working stable. 2GB kits.

FIREWIRE:PCI FireWire 400 Card
he say his current firewire card giving problems. Recently I read of some brand that certified with a particular video editing software.. I'll go for that one, yes

Prowl: yuh make some nice points....
I not studying montor for now... that can always be acquired and this guy just starting up, but he'll definitely benefit.
As for RAID, is not "some more" drives.. you bloody need FOUR minimum for RAID 10 or 0+1!! I think having the 4th drive for backups is the most cost effective idea so far, so I'll stick with that. Is up to the guy to do backups, but I suspect a backup software with scheduled automatic backups might be the best idea. I'd really like to know what PSU you gonna use. 600W might really be what I need as I want no future issues at all.

[Arcmanov]

I suggest that you leave the AM2/DDR2 platform out for now, and stick with the tried and tested socket 939 platform.  That way you'll avoid stability issues.

For the cooling, get some Thermaltake smart case fans.  They come with 3 types of speed control.  A bit on the noisy side but at full speed they get up to 5500 rpm and move a helluva lot of air, and are especially good when used as intake fans (I should know, my PC uses 4 of them).  Good cooling is an absolute necessity with this type of PC, as it will be on for long hours, and during video-processing and rendering tasks, those components are going to heat up plenty.

As for the power supply, use a 600-Watt one time, especially as you say that you have to add more hardware as time goes on (also for the benefit of the cooling fans).  I find that changing a power-supply is a real pain, so put a beefy one and done.
Make sure that the UPS is one that has a USB communication cable, and monitoring software.

[Crixx_Creww]

i read this thread and was feeling good, then i saw yu say gonna make these upgrades in stages and i just felt sick. I think this is a bad idea, seriously.

Secondly, you know these matrox and quadro cards are HIGHLY overrated right, i mean they are basically the same as gaming cards except for some soft modding but they just happen to kinda suck in gaming. You may wanna dig a lil deeper into the cards and look at the soft mod scene.

Conroe or bust dude!!! e6600 should serve him so nicely for awhile.
OMFG NEW CASE NOWW!!! cooling NOW!!!
OMG @ HIS RAM!! change now!
dont wait
if there is any waiting that has to be done

wait to do the wholee thing!
throw in some cooling on his machine for now and wait till october or november and do the whole thing at once! by then conroe will be even more attractive, please pleaseeee dont do it in stages. blehh

[W1nTry]

As someone who dabbles in encoding every now and again and almost a relation HEAVY into film (he uses Apple as if there were any other for this stuff in ones home), I have a few things to say.

1. If he's serious about video editing yuh NEED 1TB of memory from the get go. I say 1 TB as in 2x500GB (which are available albeit NOT down here). If you're encoding in HD content you'll tear through 1TB in NO time flat.

2. If you're REALLY concerned about image quality at HD sizes then you will need Firewire 800 to transfer or stream these without loss or corruption.

3. Conroe is the better cpu for encoding as someone said, that's always been intel's stronghold (save and except earlier on against the Power tech of IBM/Apple). However I do realize that both the instability of the conroe platform and price come into play STRONGLY here. So the 4800+ is a good way to go. I doubt he'll see much improvement over the 4400+ as it's only a 200MHz speedbump. You may want to look into the 4400.

4. The matrox cards are great however, as crix said alot of those cards are soft/hard modded derivatives of the desktop part kin. (Note crixx there are differences in the higher end range). I would suggest unless he is getting a matrox for some proprietary encoding tech, sticking with a desktop card is fine and will be cheaper. Also recall that Avivo and Purevideo are features of existing ATI/Nvidia desktop and workstation cards. Thus encoding on the video card (which albeit in the infant stages) will provide better results in the long run. At which point the CPU encoding of video will take a back seat.

5. If stability of Power is a concern, PC Power and Cooling is #1 BAR NONE. nuff said

6. I agree with a change of case is MANDATORY. Get a well ventilated FULL size ATX case. Nothing flashy necessarily although Lian Li would be nice, but a server size chassis is a definite recommendation.

7. If you are going with the 939 vs. the AM2 socket, can I suggest DFI or Abit as alternatives to Asus/MSI/Biostar. It will cost you more to get teh DFI or Abit but for feature set and stability the others can't come round. I would also suggest looking into the Crossfire platform as it's a better performer (Crossfire 3200) than the Nvidia nForce 4 chipset.

[Crixx_Creww]

Umm winny when yu said 1tb of memory yu meant storage right lol i was like WTF HE GONNA DO WIT AH TERRA BYTE OF RAM? lol anyways.

As i said and winny said, CASE UPGRADE NOW!! COOLING NOW!!

thennnn everything else should wait to come in one shot

wait till october or november for some mature ish conroe platforms and sweeter conroe pricing, ddr2 pricing should drop a bit more as well.

Unless he is going really high end matrox card, as in the 3k us price range, then dont buy a matrox card, get desktop cards instead and use softmodding if yu really feel it neccessary to say yu have a workstation card.

Case in point, in the office, the linux boys had a matrox card clocking in at the 1600 us dollar price range
and i soft modded a 5200, a 5950 xt and a believe a 9800 and wouldnt yu know it, lol, these cards were more than comparable to the matrox card.

I then of course proceeded to more than laff at silly linux boys for not being able to sweat game untop of paying so much money for a workstation card that my gaming cards could match. *sigh*

I think it would be in dudes best interest to get things done in one big batch and not sloppy upgrade spurts.

[Saxito Pau]

well is I in charge of deciding what parts he gonna use, eh.

Crixx, sorry to dissapoint you, but I can't do anything if they guy ent have sufficient money... his mom gone "cap-in-hand" today to try to get a bank loan just to get the PSU, RAM, UPS and firewire 400 card (at TT$3000 estimated) !!   If they gave me TT$10,000 in my hand, thas another story. (at this point I say yuh sometimes have to take certain things a client says for granted, like getting $$$ in yuh hand...but whaever) But that is what I'll have to work with for now. The focus is on eliminating the critical issues for now... so those parts I choose now will also be in the final rig, (with the POSSIBLE exception of RAM in the event I go DDR2)

@ W1ntry: he already has a firewire 800

As i said and winny said, CASE UPGRADE NOW!! COOLING NOW!!

thennnn everything else should wait to come in one shot

I will ensure that proper cooling is in place. I'll get someone to cut out a hole in the side panel to make a grill and mount another fan on that..I have a friend or 2 who did that custom mod with success (jes too damn buzy to do it myself)...

A new Case, at least the one I want to get for him (Thermaltake Tsunami), go have to wait a lil bit... everything else (incl case) will come in one shot... rest assured, Crixx, I not messing around there....

4. The matrox cards are great however, as crix said alot of those cards are soft/hard modded derivatives of the desktop part kin. (Note crixx there are differences in the higher end range). I would suggest unless he is getting a matrox for some proprietary encoding tech, sticking with a desktop card is fine and will be cheaper. Also recall that Avivo and Purevideo are features of existing ATI/Nvidia desktop and workstation cards. Thus encoding on the video card (which albeit in the infant stages) will provide better results in the long run. At which point the CPU encoding of video will take a back seat.

Crixx/Wintry: Interesting comments on the video card. 'Just soft-mod' a gaming card to a workstation and yuh good to go?? And a soft-mod not even necessary?? If that is the case, a bloody GeForce 7600GS should cut it. I can at least make him stop using that "isshy" onboard GF6100 card and cut costs in the process. I think I'll make them buy that card one time.

wait till october or november for some mature ish conroe platforms and sweeter conroe pricing, ddr2 pricing should drop a bit more as well.

depending on how conroe chipsets mature over time, I may go that way.. but for now s939 for safety, maturity and stability.

7. If you are going with the 939 vs. the AM2 socket, can I suggest DFI or Abit as alternatives to Asus/MSI/Biostar. It will cost you more to get teh DFI or Abit but for feature set and stability the others can't come round. I would also suggest looking into the Crossfire platform as it's a better performer (Crossfire 3200) than the Nvidia nForce 4 chipset.

If the board you suggest have e-SATA then I am definitely interested...



But can no-one suggest to me a particular brand/model power supply to get? (preferably modular given the size of the current case) I have leeway up to US$150

[W1nTry]

I would suggest any of the following manus for a PSU:
PC Power & Cooling (however usually >> $150USD)
Enermax
OCZ
Silverstone
Thermaltake

All of the last 4 have very good PSUs below $150USD and we're talking 500+ watts here. OCZ has a nice modular (read detachable power cables, only use what you need-- avoids clutter however cables are stiff)
Enermax do PSUs as opposed to OCZ that also does memory etc, companies that specialize in 1 particular component tend to know what they're doing.
Silverstone (zeus in particular) are known for great stability at high wattages.

Here are some links:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153028
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817703001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194001
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

These are just examples. To be sure of the PSU you need, you need to determine what mobo you're using, if it requires dual or single 12V rails, what sort of amperage you have on your 5V and 12V rails. Size and # of fans you want on the PSU. All of the PSUs above have Active Power Factor Correction. SLI or non SLI certified, etc. All depends on the other parts in the system.

[Beomagi]

I really don't think he needs the absolute best in power - a respectable psu is decent enough. no need for a rolls

unmached ram isnt a problem. As long as each module is running in spec it's fine.

You DONT need a high end video card for video. color profiles and what not are nice, but you can manually set it. quadro's offer acceleration in a couple apps for previews not a final render.
I'd stick to his current video. Parhelias may have 10bit per color accuracy, but it just doesnt make a difference. Especially if his monitor is one of the cheaper older lcd's that used 6 bit per channel.
If it's JUST for video encoding, the 7600gs offers no disadvantage. However, it DOES do wonders for playback of HD video. Purevideo has really made some progress, decoding hd video permitting use of even crappy cpus.

you can get the 7600gs for under $60! (rebate though)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143054

TT is ok, but wont trust it for load close to maxing it's capacity. there's the Antec 500W for $70
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=273503

zipzoomfly has free shipping.


DO realize that the cheapest thing he can do for a boost in video processing, is buying a dual core socket 939 cpu. no it's not AS fast as core 2 duo, but given that he's already running 939, it's the highest bang per bug for him. ESPECIALLY with ddr2 prices at a rediculous high. Oc'd to 2.7GHz (the average) he's have something compeditive to a e6400. (yes i DO realize core 2's oc well over 3.0GHz)

I agree with your plan Sax, cept on the choice in psu, and the videocard.

if you want something to help cool the case here's what I recently did.

used a 3 bay intake
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185019
switched fan to a silverstone 110CFM fan.

great for air intake. My cpu no longer overheats, and I've oc'd it to 4.34GHz (pentium D 945). Case lacked proper intake from the start.

[Saxito Pau]

Actually since my last post I did some serious research on the PSU, and I decide on going with  the Antec Neo HE 550W instead

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=28550

Multiple reviews say this PSU has an efficiency of up to 85% and can handle REAL LOAD and it's just US$113 at Amazon. On top of that it is Modular. I'll probably use that as my default PSU for any HI-performace PCs I configure in future...

Iunmached ram isnt a problem. As long as each module is running in spec it's fine.

I will disagree with you on the unmatched RAM part. If for no other reason than sheer paranoia, I will make him buy matched RAM. Eliminate as much potential (current and future) issues as possible from the word go.

As for the video card I really think I'll go for a GeForce 7300 or 7600 Card. The arguments in favour of the GeForce are ovewhelming....

DO realize that the cheapest thing he can do for a boost in video processing, is buying a dual core socket 939 cpu. no it's not AS fast as core 2 duo, but given that he's already running 939, it's the highest bang per bug for him. ESPECIALLY with ddr2 prices at a rediculous high. Oc'd to 2.7GHz (the average) he's have something compeditive to a e6400. (yes i DO realize core 2's oc well over 3.0GHz)

Thas a very good point...the odds are in favour of sticking to 939 for maturity of the chipsets. I targeting a 4200+ or 4400+. But then I gather you want me to stick with his current board: a Biostar GeForce 6100..... I don't think so. That board HAS to change.


I even thinking so far as *cough* as suggesting my Benny Hinn compatible barebones PC to him. The case can hold 120mm fans intake and outtake.... is just to transfer his drives, change PSU and change the CPU for a dual core. (But  ah just KNOW I gonna get an aerial rave combo for that suggestion!)
An identical system I did for another guy have his lone hard drive running @ 27C! his dual-core 3800+ is 33C.


At this time ah still waiting to see if he mom get this loan. But in the interim I glue gunned a 120mm fan to his isshy case to get some airflow over his drives, did some serious cable management and opted to leave the side panel off.... his RAID-0 drives now running at around 43C now... in aircon. could definitely bet better still but it go have to do....

Right now I eyeing down a Thermaltake Viking case in Circuit Zone just under TT$1000. One way or the other I hadda chain him up to get that or similar!!