Phys X a waste of time?

[TrinireturnofGamez]

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q2/physx/index.x?pg=1

  Techreport has a review of Physx cards running against dual core cpus , overall the Physx card provides better performance than running physics on a CPU , but only by small amounts vs a dual core CPU . With conroe and quad cores around the corner , does spending 300 US on a card with support by only a handful of games seem worth it?  I think not , and possibly unless the software is optimized more or they release higher clocked versions of those cards , on pci-e 1x slots to boot , Conroe and 4 way AMD will leave it behind in the dust...
   And considering the price... you CAN get a conroe for less than a physics card and use it for more.. The only real advantage Ageia might have is in areas that are highly intensive , but purely cosmetic eg. Cloth simulation , that no one really needs..
   
  also , Havoc the leader in gaming physics is proposing to move those purely cosmetic physics simulations on the GPU with Havoc FX.. So why do we need a physics card for anyway?
 

[Arcmanov]

Also, in its only current real-world application (Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter) the results have been less than stellar, and somewhat inconsistent.
More details here: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/19/can_ageia/

The price does not justify the clearly marginal performance gain.  At $259 US and up, I would say its better to get another video card in SLi (if you have a SLi mobo of course).

The short answer to Trini's question: yes, (for now).

[W1nTry]

Umm the point of the physics card is not Aesthetic only Trini.. unlike SLI physics WHICH IS AESTHETIC ONLY. THe idea is to have interactive environment, you missing the point if you thinking clothes blowing the in the wind. What we expect from physics is, I shoot that support beam out, the roof comes crashing down on the opponent KILLING or maiming them. Where do you get this idea is only for show? but that being said, if the CPUs can do it, well it seems Ageia is too little too late unfortunately.

[TriniXaeno]

Yeah, I think we beat this dead horse a few times already.

Physix is the dead last thing you should buy for your gaming PC, like after you've investing in wireless surround sound headphones, recliner chair, beer holder and ear muffs for your monitor.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

Umm the point of the physics card is not Aesthetic only Trini.. unlike SLI physics WHICH IS AESTHETIC ONLY. THe idea is to have interactive environment, you missing the point if you thinking clothes blowing the in the wind. What we expect from physics is, I shoot that support beam out, the roof comes crashing down on the opponent KILLING or maiming them. Where do you get this idea is only for show? but that being said, if the CPUs can do it, well it seems Ageia is too little too late unfortunately.

  They won't make core gameplay physics so intensive as to NEED an Ageia card , then no one will buy the game.. i won't be so anti Ageia if the cards weren't so DAMNED EXPENSIVE , Ageia obviously doesn't care about furthering gameplay , just cashing in on people's stupidity .
   The whole point of SLI physics is that a dual core can handle the level of physics you mentioned, and more , just fine..hell i'm sure you can do effects like that in the HL 1 engine .. The eye candy effects are just processed by the GPU and totally optional ,  Havoc doesn't want to force people to get SLI or crossfire , just to add more features for those who do have the cash,  forcing physics cards down gamer's gullets is a BAD idea imo... even if the price drops significantly , come on i too cheap to spend 50 US on an audigy 2 for my sound system , i not buying a physics card !

[W1nTry]

come on i too cheap to spend 50 US on an audigy 2 for my sound system , i not buying a physics card !

Well you said it, however I don't think Ageie was aiming at budget gamers I mean come on 200+ USD isn't a budget card save the video and even then thats a tall order. I wonder how you can say they should be trying to further gaming, I ask you how are they NOT? They are encouraging the industry to make games that have more interactive environments, games that will allow much more open-ended type gameplay as you can now use your surroundings as your weapons on a whole different scale. You are right about 1 thing, you're CHEAP. Innovation doesn't come free man. The only hard part is once CPUs can do the physics these cards can, their idea would have been a good one, that just didn't turn out profitable. I still think a PPU in a 4x4 AMD system could rock ur gaming world but thats me.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/03/the_scientists_opinions_on_gaming_physics/index.html
 

the PhysX card doesn't look promising, for two main reasons. First, the physics algorithms are locked into the hardware, which prevents programmers from changing the algorithms if they find better ones. Second, as we mentioned earlier, the factors that influence physics cannot be simplified into an equation in a satisfying way. This basically means that you're stuck with what you have and cannot go forward.

   Several scientists and programmers have commented on th Ageia vs GPU physics debate,and they are on the side of GPU physics. PPU physics alogrithms are hardwired into the chip , cannot be optimized or changed, so while it may be very good at 'bl0wing sh!t up' , the kind of physics we want to see, like realistic ridgid  ragdoll physics for FPS and fighting games, super accurate hit detection ( heart shot= 1 hit kill, lung shot = 50% damage etc.)  and dynamic systems , will not be able to be done effciently as you have to work with what you have , can't replace it.
    Its like bieng forced to run windows 95 for your office pcs, even if you upgrade to new hardware supporting better OSes , none of your files and programs are compatible with the new stuff , and you end up installing windows 95 for many years to come..
   While the GPU  itself can be fed your own code like a CPU  , but crunch it must faster...  Plus if , if you really wanted to you could do non eye candy physics simulations on it , Scientists have modelled steller explosions using  SLI and crossfire,  your own GPU should be able to do the same...
   
 Plus the cost factor , an X1600 is supposed to be able to do physics at the speed of Agiea's card and can be had for less than 100US, in a year or two the price for similar performing cards will drop in half and so on... Plus you could just keep your 'old' gpu to do physics , and eventually when card come with 48+ shaders, dedicate 8 or 12 shaders to physics as your GPU is highly parallel , it would be like cranking up AA to get more eye candy , only in a different way .

[Spazosaurus]

Not that I am siding with Ageia's PhysX card (personally don't se much of an advantage using it), physics algorithms hardwired into the chiip *should*  notbe too much of a problem, using the logic that consoles like ps2 and x360 have static hardware configs which developers have to work with for years to come. They also have to work with what they have.

<rant>
Personally, i find that PC game devs should AT  LEAST find some way to have their games run on highest settings on older previous gen vid cards rather than focus exclusively on the very latest. This video card thing is so reduculous where man have to pelt out money for a new card(s) or completely change over his SLI system after about a year to be able to play the latest on maximum settings. I dont mean that it should be that hardware should remain constant, just not force people wanting max performance bled their pockets.</end rant>

[W1nTry]

<rant>
Personally, i find that PC game devs should AT  LEAST find some way to have their games run on highest settings on older previous gen vid cards rather than focus exclusively on the very latest. This video card thing is so reduculous where man have to pelt out money for a new card(s) or completely change over his SLI system after about a year to be able to play the latest on maximum settings. I dont mean that it should be that hardware should remain constant, just not force people wanting max performance bled their pockets.</end rant>

Such is the plight of the PC gamer eh! well said. I have long agreed with this idealogy, however if I were to comment it would be a repeat of the PC vs. Console discussion so I won't. What I will say is that the ever evolving tech is what drives innovation and sales which ultimately is required to stay in the business. If Nvidia/ATI stopped making new cards every 2 weeks (sarcastic remark) then we'd still be playing MK2 level graphics and they'd have been out of business cause making a single product every 5 years (like a console) just ain't cost effective.

[Spazosaurus]

Sure, it wont be profitable Nvidia and Ati given the price they sell their cards for right now. But bear with me here for a while. Cant they try slowing down the rate at which they pump out new generation cards to say once  every 18 months and within this time, continue to work on innovating and improving their product. This way, innovation still taking place and there wont be the burden of having to fight to keep up with the rediculous pace that these cards comin with. Now game devs come in and develop their games making maximum use of the currnet generation of cards until the next is finished. In other words, kinna adopt the method they use with consoles, but cut down the time in between generation changes. In theory, this should be the best of both worlds. What about pricing? Charge about double the price of what current gen cards go for now and make previous gen cards (which are incidentally still very very powerful even though they are more than a year old) very cheap.

Feel free to punch holes in my theory. I might be overlooking a critical element.

[W1nTry]

Update:
A Pretty decent review of the Physics card and how it affects games. If they manage to keep this up a physics card may become the next ,must have add in card...
http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/misc/ageia-physx/1/

[Narcissus]

u wouldn believe i now come online to ask abt dis same shit...
so SLI/Crossfire or a PhysX card wat would u get?
an the list of supported games kinda thin...