Poll

Views on upgradin to vista.

Most definately!MS ownz my soul!
10 (20%)
Hmm, if its a technically smart option.
11 (22%)
If i get it free...
8 (16%)
Not even if i get it free.
9 (18%)
STEUPSSSS F#%$% MS!!!
12 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Author Topic: Microsoft VISTA  (Read 56439 times)

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2006, 11:06:47 AM »
RC1 man, was 1 of the 100,000 that were allowed to DL.

Carigamers

Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2006, 11:06:47 AM »

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #81 on: September 04, 2006, 11:52:23 AM »
i think dx10 is gonna be a considerable bane to the forces that want to have more games on linux.

This lack of backward compatibility with dx 9 cards is really nasty
yes they pushing progress in a way, but its also blatantly obvious its merely to make sure that drm and hdcp thingy get strong footholds in next gen

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2006, 11:55:17 AM »
i think dx10 is gonna be a considerable bane to the forces that want to have more games on linux.

This lack of backward compatibility with dx 9 cards is really nasty
yes they pushing progress in a way, but its also blatantly obvious its merely to make sure that drm and hdcp thingy get strong footholds in next gen


Where have you read that DX10 will be incompatible with DX9 parts? I remember reading (from a Crysis spokesperson) that Crysis would run noticeably faster on DX9 parts running under DX10 in vista...

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2006, 12:16:47 PM »
this nvidia magazine i got my hands on
said that dx10 has been designed to run only on dx10 hardware

ill get back the magazine to see if i could transcribe all the info, i remember seeing something bout support for dx 9 hardware, but that they movin real hardcore and gonna force people to run dx10 hardware.

Offline Spazosaurus

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2006, 01:18:01 PM »
Nah win thats Pre RC1 you got. I was also one of the 100,000 but there's the actual RC1 that was released last Friday. If you read the email invite micro sent you, youll see they giv you the key again, the same one from the beta 2.

That part about DX10 not running on DX9 hardware is totally inaccurate. I think u better have a second look at that article.

Carigamers

Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2006, 01:18:01 PM »

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2006, 02:48:47 PM »
nah iam not totally inaccurate dude

if yu read the reasoning behind it then yu wont say that.

Not my mag so ill have to try and pry it from dudes hand, but its an nvidia magazine, anyone know the name of the nvidia magazine?

the way its meant to be played or something?
it was the september edition

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2006, 03:17:26 PM »
That sounds like nvidia propaganda to force ppl to buy new hardware. It's like Nvidia making all that money (until now) on having SLI on everything. Face it crixx, Nvidia could have been good to the consumer and had SLI open, however they even charged the PSU manus to get SLI certification stickers. That's just plain talk, bad manners. Now with Xfire on 975 and 965 and AMD+ATI nvidia will be forced to open up SLI to any chipset which would prove it was possible ALL ALONG, just they were too money hungry to give us the consumer that. I bet if ATI were to say, sure our DX9 parts will allow you to run DX10 in the LEAST for the aqua... I mean Vista GUI to work, that Nvidia will be right behind them to say so can we :p I mean if you think about it, right now the Vista RC1 and the Pre run on DX9 parts... so what will it really take to allow this for the full release? it would take more effort at this point to DISALLOW DX9 cards running DX10 than the other way around. Sure a DX9 card won't have all the functionality of a DX10 but what purpose would it serve OTHER than for profit to via SOFTWARE disallow DX10 on DX9 parts??

Offline Crixx_Creww

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2006, 03:21:32 PM »
well, microsoft had a mind nerfing speel about it in the article bout for the betterment of the community they are forcing change yadda yadda
but yur right
its mainly for profit

iam not saying it isnt
and with the unholy alliance that is amd+ati, nvidia hadda eat ah food to
so why should anyone ben bout dat

Offline vivman1107

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2006, 03:22:18 PM »
Ok, I did some checking and came up with this from ExtremeTech.

Quote
DX10 will use much faster dynamic link libraries (DLLs), and won't incorporate older versions of DirectX, as is done today. DirectX 9 will be supported side-by-side, through DirectX 9.L (basically, that's DX9 for the Vista driver model). So right there, without using any new features, DX10 should be more efficient and faster.

The DX10 graphics API will usher in unified vertex and pixel shaders, and introduce the concept of "geometry shaders" that can act on not just single vertices, but whole triangles and their adjacent vertices. Developers will be able to stream out data from the GPU and reuse it without needing the CPU to do a single thing, so a lot of the CPU load seen in current graphics drivers and games should be reduced. DX10 should allow for more flexible and granular graphics memory access, and in general allow GPUs to be far more flexible and powerful than before.

Perhaps one of the best features of DX10 is the removal of capability bits, or "cap bits." Today, graphics cards don't have to support everything in DirectX 9 to be a "DX9 graphics card." There are lots of optional features, and the drivers have to report to the OS exactly what it can and can't do with a set of cap bits. This has been a huge headache for developers, as different cards all support different features, or perform the same operations in different ways. In DX10, either you meet the spec or you don't—no more supporting only these or those texture formats, and this or that shader model but only with this level of precision.

Graphics cards will have to produce results within a very small margin of error to be considered DX10 compliant, so developers shouldn't have to worry about the same operation producing different visuals on different cards. As far as developers are concerned, they should finally be able to simply write to the API and know that any DX10 compliant card will produce the correct result. Naturally, there will still be differences in performance between different graphics cards to consider.

DirectX 9 should, when the drivers are well optimized, run faster under the Vista driver model than Windows XP. But DX10 will do more to reduce CPU utilization, increase graphics card power and flexibility, and enforce hardware standards that should make life a lot easier on developers. Upon release, there will probably be some Windows XP games that will have enhanced DX10 modes when run under Vista (like Crysis and Flight Simulator X), and maybe even a few "gotta have it" Vista-only games that require DX10. Microsoft has already announced Halo 2, but others should follow (and hopefully, they won't be ports of two year old Xbox games).

So it seems that you can run Vista without a new graphics card. I think the distinction should be made that Vista has both DirectX 10 and DirectX 9. I checked nVidia's website and they list GPU's as far back as 5200 as being Vista capable.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/technology_vista_home.html

This is an interview at ExtremeTech with two guys at Micro$oft about DirectX 10. It is very interesting and they even say that it will be about 2 years after Vista launches when you will see DirectX 10 only titles. In that time, we should have DirectX 9 games that can run on DirectX 10 with upgraded features. Also, as a side note, Vista's desktop is drawn using DirectX 9 even if you have a DirectX 10 card. Another note, the Crysis screenshots available from Crytek are all DirectX 9, not 10, according to these guys.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1982031,00.asp
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 03:41:24 PM by vivman1107 »

Offline Spazosaurus

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2006, 05:25:16 PM »
This Vista must run on DirectX 10 thing is just so full of holes. Not least of which is the fact that PC vendors are selling Vista ready machines. Now i think we can all agree that there is as yet no DX10 hardware available to the public and in the vista ready PC's by extension, so how could Vista actually demand that such a card be installed for it to run Aero?

As if that wasnt enough logic for you and you need to see it in black and white, here's the specs needed to run Vista Premium in all its glory...http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx directly fromthe horse's mouth. Like W1n says, that's more than likely a boatload of crap from the Nvidia propaganda machine.

Offline vivman1107

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2006, 12:20:51 PM »
Official Vista prices were released today by Microsoft as reported on CNET.

Quote
Pricing for full retail versions of the software will be Windows Vista Ultimate, $399; Windows Vista Business, $299; Windows Vista Home Premium, $239; and Windows Vista Home Basic, $199.

Upgrades from Windows XP are priced at Windows Vista Ultimate, $259; Windows Vista Business, $199; Windows Vista Home Premium, $159; and Windows Vista Home Basic, $99.

If they do the same thing as XP where you could just insert your previous install CD for the upgrade, I will just get a Home Premium upgrade. Side note ... Just installed Kubuntu 6.06 this morning before going to work, dual-booting with XP. KDE is sweet.

Offline Spazosaurus

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2006, 12:30:55 PM »
hmmmm $400 for ultimate vista? That's rich. Looks like ill be using a RC until it expires in May 2k7 by which time hopefully there will be a way to...................
« Last Edit: September 05, 2006, 12:32:31 PM by The_Unknown »

Offline disciple

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2006, 01:01:23 PM »


If they do the same thing as XP where you could just insert your previous install CD for the upgrade, I will just get a Home Premium upgrade. Side note ... Just installed Kubuntu 6.06 this morning before going to work, dual-booting with XP. KDE is sweet.

yeh they plan on having 'windows anytime upgrade' in contol panel..
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060301-6295.html

and yes.. kde is the REAL flick..  checkout kde-look.org for new icon sets and various other customizations   . oh, and checkout yakuake.. it's a drop-down quake-style command prompt...
#406745

Offline vivman1107

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2006, 01:26:49 PM »
Actually, I was talking about how you could do a fresh install of XP and during the installation it prompts you for your 98 CD. I prefer not to install one OS over the previous one. Less worries. Yakuake looks real nice. I might try it when I get home. Feel free to share any more good stuff (especially game-related). I was playing around with some emulators on PCLinuxOS before. I will have to install those on Kubuntu.

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2006, 02:01:46 PM »
oh ho, yeh i now get wah u mean..lol..  is possible..   wonder if it gonna check to see if is a authentic copy first, tho. hmm..

here's the upgrade matrix..


Quote
Note that the requirement for clean installs does not mean that the user is required to purchase a full version of the operating system. XP Pro, XP Pro x64 and Windows 2000 users will still be able to purchase the "upgrade edition" of any version of Vista. They just won't be able to upgrade with their existing files and settings in place.

Users of Windows versions prior to 2000 will not be eligible for the upgrade version of Vista and must both purchase a full version and do a clean install.

never did like upgrade cds tho..lol..

kubuntu more or less ships with the better apps for kde..   you can try Kompose, to manage multiple desktops. don't forget to uncomment  the universe and multiverse repositories  in /etc/apt/sources.list  , and add the KDE and amarok (instructions on kubuntu.org)..ubuntuguide.org also has instructions about how to enable multimedia codecs,install proprietary software and various other customisations you may want..  and http://frankscorner.org has help on enablin some windows apps, and games.

you should have snes9x, and visual gameboy advance in the repositories ( i think is in multiverse).erhaps mame too, cah remember  ( i switched to suse a couple months ago)

#406745

Offline W1nTry

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2006, 08:42:07 AM »
Who upgrading to VISTA? well not too many ppl in latvia I suppose since they'd be upgrading to a 'CHICKEN' or 'FUMPY WOMAN'. This ALMOST belonged in the Just a joke thread:
Quote
Latvians laugh at Vista

Fowl play as Vole gets the bird


By Nick Farrell: Friday 08 September 2006, 07:38

 MICROSOFT MARKETERS are having a hell of a job establishing the super soaraway operating system in the pecking order in Latvia.
Apparently, whenever they ring up peddling Vista, Latvians burst out laughing because the name means "chicken" or "frumpy woman" in the local lingo.

The poor sales person rings up and talks about 101 things you can do with a chicken and they think he or she is flogging a cookbook. Of course if they think he or she is talking about a frumpy woman then they are likely to think they are getting an obscene phone call.

Microsoft Latvia is trying to get around the problem by playing up Vista's positive aspects and the more poetic, international definition of the name. A spokesVole said that when Latvians learn of the technical opportunities the system offers, they will pay more attention to its advantages, not its name.

She said that Vole had managed to achieve product recognition without any ad campaigns. With a name like "Chicken" we are not surprised, however we would have thought that a frumpy woman competing with the likes of Apple’s pastal spring collection would have proven a bit of a nightmare.

Fortunately for Vole only 1.3 million people speak Latvian and that is not enough to play chicken with Microsoft’s global domination for the operating system.

Offline Arcmanov

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #96 on: September 09, 2006, 10:28:12 PM »
Well, I downloaded and installed the latest RC1 (on another PC of course), and MAN is it pretty.  All nice and glassy and colourful.  It runs very smoothly for the most part, but there are issues.

The most annoying one I've found, is that I always have to specify 'Private Network' in the Network Centre, so that the Vista PC can 'see' my home network and connect to the internet.
I'll chalk that up to a pre-release bug that'll be sorted out in the final version.

And of course, there's that whole 'Activation' thing.  I mean come ON!!!  Would it not make more sense if there was no 'activation' needed, so that more people could install the thing, so that more feedback could be gained from the community at large about what works and what doesnt.  JEEZ!!!

Of course I'll be looking for a workaround.  14 days is not long enough to properly evaluate this OS.

Surprisingly, it recognised all my hardware except the on-board Realtek sound, even though I used a not so common mobo with a ULi chipset.  The built in Nvidia driver for my 6600 GT seemed very stable. 
I could also connect most of my USB devices.  These included a card reader, gamepad, digital camera, HDD enclosure without problems.

I'll poke around some more and see what I find.


EDIT:  Fixed the network issue.  Apparently it was the on-board NIC fuxing-up.
           Added some screenies:
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 01:11:59 AM by Arcman »
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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2006, 03:06:04 AM »
^^^purty aint it?
sorry for the double post, but I didn't want this to get lost in that post.

I tested FEAR online and it WORKS, a bit laggy, but it works (with ZERO errors I might add)
The slight lag could be due to the DX9/DX10 issue, or a RAM issue, as Vista uses approx 533 MB of RAM just on startup alone.  It could also be a driver issue, as the Nvidia driver I used is the first issued specifically for the RC1 (5600 x86) Vista.

The future does look somewhat promising.
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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2006, 06:47:44 AM »
Yeah it looks great and runs a lot better that previous vista versions. Still, it doesnt feel quite right. It doesnt feel like an OS that i can use day in day out. Of course it is not as yet final so hopefully that feeling will change.

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Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2006, 09:34:11 AM »
I've been trying to run it off of a VM with no luck, I remember someone in this thread managed to do that, some assistance would be nice. On another note here is an evaluation of the current build:
Quote
Microsoft Vista is still a mess

More RC1 ramblings


By Dean Pullen: Monday 11 September 2006, 07:00

WE'VE HAD THE pleasure of using Vista since its very early builds. The first release candidate is now upon us, and was made available to download by TechBeta and Technology Adoption Program program subscribers last week.
MSDN and TechNet subscribers should now also be able to grab the near-complete RC1 release, build number 5600. One INQUIRER columnist has already given us his positive and then negative spin on RC1, and further testing from this hack has uncovered further problems.

Throughout the testing of the past releases, it was strikingly evident how incomplete Vista's code was. Various incomplete features, missing graphics, place-holder text messages, and a plethora of bugs, left many feeling very underwhelmed, and increasingly worried by the next operating system from Microsoft.

A release candidate should consist of all features that will appear in the finished product, in an almost final state, with simple bug fixing and last-minute problem finding being the main concerns of the testers and developers. A beta 2 'pre-RC1' build, numbered 5536, of Vista was only recently made available for download just before RC1, and was considered surprisingly stable and bug-free compared to previous betas. RC1, then, should easily cope under scrutiny from the INQUIRER.

Installation
The install didn't go well. The test system had a Nvidia based RAID setup over two SATA disks which had been running XP perfectly for some time. Vista refused to see the RAID, even with beta Vista-specific drivers from Nvidia. Booting Vista from within XP allowed setup to see the hard-disks, but after the preliminary setup routines, and a reboot, Vista failed to again see the drives. Searching Nvidia forums gave an answer - load the Vista specific drivers in an XP-based Vista setup even when it recognizes the RAID. The install then worked. Its surprising one of the most utilised RAID supporting motherboardchipsets from one of the biggest suppliers of chipsets are still having problems with their Vista drivers at this very late stage.

Previous critical examination of Microsoft's new beloved font types in our Office 2007 articles seems to have fallen on deaf ears - the installation font looked awful, with random spacing occurring between letters much like that in the Office beta's. It looks amateurish at best.

Further hardware problems came from the very popular Creative Audigy card that was utilised in the test system. Vista failed to recognize the card, so a quick look on Creative's site uncovered Vista specific drivers. A quick install and reboot, ensured a consistent BSOD on boot. Resorting back to the last known good configuration sorted this, and an install of the older XP drivers seemed to work without any further problems. Again it's surprising and very disturbing that a driver for such a popular sound device is still at a very poor stage in development.

Rebooting
Some drivers were previously copied onto a USB memory stick for quick installation once Vista was up and running. Vista automatically recognized the USB memory stick, as you'd expect, but copying a file to the desktop failed (the copy dialog wouldn't complete) and a 0 byte file then remained on the desktop which wasn't removable until a reboot.

Installing Windows Live Messenger worked fine. For some reason the build on Microsoft's website was old and the program instantly asked if the newer version should be installed. A quick download later, and the installation hung and couldn't be closed without a reboot.

During setup you're asked to name your PC. On examining the test PC's name in the networking properties, it was obvious this had at some point been discarded - a further renaming was required, which then required a full reboot. Installing Nvidia Nforce drivers for the system's motherboard required a reboot - and on restarting Vista, another reboot was required to finish the installation. So much for rebooting Windows less.

Media
Media center is now built in to Windows, as opposed to shipping as a separate OS offering. It's had various GUI changes, but some of the older GUI still exists - surely this should all be complete now, considering this is a release candidate? Media player failed to bring up the 'first time setup' procedure on the first attempt to try to play a video file and only audio could be heard with no video, until media player was restarted and the aforementioned procedure finally kicked into gear.

Performance
The test PC contained an Athlon64 3200+ on a Nvidia Nforce 4 chipset based motherboard with 1gb RAM and a Geforce 7600GT - hardly awe inspiring, but a decent entry/mid level PC, which runs XP and most modern games very happily. Vista start up takes around 15-20 seconds longer than the old install of XP on this machine, and takes around 10 seconds more to unload for a reboot. The OS in general appears sluggish compared to XP and resource hungry - the memory footprint on a fresh boot of Vista takes around 500-550mb without any other tasks running, and the CPU never seems to run idle. The old program-loaded XP install took around 300mb.

Interface
The partially-transparent windows look nice, but I'd prefer opaque boarders if it meant the performance of XP. The 3D presentation of windows when flipping between programs isn't particularly useful and isn't even the alt-tab default - a thumbnail preview of the window appears, much like the Windows XP powertoy add-on.

Where's the run command gone in the start menu? This is highly annoying, and you often find yourself trying to quickly run a command window but having to resort to the search function. The start menu no longer expands into an observable tree like it has for the last 11 years, instead each level of the tree appears in the main start menu pop up, which is particularly unnavigable and unintuitive. Each folder within the explorer view seems to have its own choice of folder viewing - one folder will show you thumbnail folder previews, another will show you a simple list, with little consistency throughout the contents of your hard-drive.

The level-up button that appeared in explorer has also disappeared. It's now much more of a pain to transverse any folder tree. As Paul Thurrott points out too, back buttons now tend (its highly inconsistent) to appear in the top left hand corner of a window, whilst next buttons still appear in the bottom right - a fairly counter-intuitive design decision.

The icons that appear in the bottom right task tray and the quick launch icons are basic, unintuitive and could've been originally shipped with Windows 3.1.

User Account Control (UAC) is ridiculously annoying. It pops up far to frequently when trying to configure your system and states administrator access is required, even when you're an administrative user - clicking continue is all that is required to bypass it, but the sluggish performance of Vista means the pop up and dark screen effect makes the process take longer than needed.

Conclusion
Vista's still a mess. It's meant to be at release candidate stage, yet vendor's are struggling to provide sufficient driver support, features are still missing or not yet complete, and its performance compared to XP is still poor. Nowadays hardware is cheap, and it would be sufficiently acceptable to upgrade in anticipation of a wonderfully revolutionary OS. Unfortunately Vista provides little to no benefit for end users compared to that of the previous version of Windows, released five years ago in 2001.

There are no upgrades or features to the OS that are sufficiently compelling to make upgrading a necessity, some which were earlier promised, allowed for sufficient reason for an upgrade to be considered, but these have been removed one by one over the course of Vista's prolonged patchy road of development, and now Vista appears little more than an ill-performing version of XP with a glorified interface. µ


Carigamers

Re: Who upgradin to VISTA???
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2006, 09:34:11 AM »

 


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