PC Gaming Going the way of the Dodo?

[W1nTry]

As with baego, Laptops are gaining serious grounds on their PC counterpart, and well to be honest who wants to toat a 50lbs machine to a LAN Party all the time? maybe if game developers made use of current tech better and prolly geared it towards latops more the PC market might stay alive a lil longer. Time will tell... it would be a sad day to see all the PC game houses sell out to the console.

[Kaizen]

well they really arent much games that PUSH the technology just the ones that we want to play mainly like those fps and thing a bunch of games come out low tech and ppl play them
BUT they arent advertised as well as there counterparts look at RTS high end games like act of war etc
a simple gem imo better Laser Sqaud Nemesis came out low tech but very very innovative but it wasnt advertised well
there will still be pc games come on u buyin a console to play a rts with a mouse and keyboard and not all mmorpgs gonna fit well on console and 1 more thing pc is always and will always be the best link to what we live on INTERNET

[W1nTry]

Careful Kaizen as seen with many other things, the definition of the PC could well change. Think of it this way, say they offer a keyboard and mouse with the next gen consoles. The PS3 already gonna have Linux on it, and well the Xbox can be integrated with say... Tivo (or whatever the MS equiv is) and they can just have the Xbox 360 as a digital hub for ur home. Plus if I can buy a console that will play movies, games, mp3s, browse the internet and get its media from a server or stream it, then why woudl I pay 500USD and more for a PC if I am a basic home user that has kids? think of it, those next gen consoles ARE PC'S just in a differnet shell, marketed differently and CHEAPER!!!! bottom LINE, CHEAPER!!!! plus they hook up to ur TV so u doh even need a LCD (space saver) or a CRT monitor. Kaizen boy yuh not looking at the bigger picture here, PC gaming is being threatened in a big way even if u r a hardcore PC gamer as many of us are, u can't deny the truth, gaming is quickly becoming easier and better on a console. Not to mention the sheer number of games being developed. I will always play PC games but I eh no fool to think in 4 years I won't be gaming and browsing on a console, accessing my media server (PC) via the console and using meh PC for work only, with the occasional LAN sweat (which already can be done with multiple consoles.. not to mention te PS3 can support up to 8 controllers and 2 HDTV's I can see they buidling mutliplayer into those things.

[TriniXaeno]

pretty damn good summary there.

^ what he said. nothing I can add. steups.

[Kaizen]

>.> damn damn damn i could fight all i want to not accept the truth but boy w1ntry you smack it on meh like some milo in the morning. well is just a intime process to see what the future holds in 2006 for the pc

[Kaizen]

that was my point laerters RTS. but i shut up if consoles takin over let it come i done with this argument console fps are very good i never add nothing on that i play console fps more than pc < lie i live on ut 2004> but gettin unreal championship 2 soon hmmm  anyhow all of your points good as is. i could say i was just a pc fan boy <no console> fightin to accept the fate pc putin it self on and well w1ntry somes it up well if a next gen console come out with that juice and compatibility and interactivity well yea ...

[W1nTry]

Well the part about keyboard and mouse was just to say it could function as a PC as well to let easy going PC users browse, check mail and access a media server. It was not to discuss the adaptation of games to a gamepad, u missed my point altogether. PLUS also along the lines I am talking about RTS games or MMORGs would be a lil easier to manage on a keyboard and mouse. PLUS they are CHEAP, dirt cheap in fact, so buying a keyboard and mouse for say ur Xbox 360 so u can use it as a PC to check mail as opposed to buying a PC for say 500USD, I think ppl will opt for the console, don't you?

[Beomagi]

people have to buy a console to play console games. Most people already have a fair pc though.

To play some of the best modern games on a pc would take
1. enough to upgrade to 1 GB ram ($72 for 2x512MB pqi turbo ddr400)
2. $150-$160us depending on who has a sale on 6800s usually newegg.com, sold out atm, but they've been having them regularly.

As long as you're pushig 1.5 GHz or so, you can partake in almost any game comfortably.

why would one go pc?
1. The plateu of hardware requirements. there was an explosion a couple years back called the 9700 - guess what! it's able to play any modern game today. maybe not at max res and quality, but more so than any console currently out.  cpu speeds are slowed in gain per release to a ridiculous degree. I remember when the c version of the pentium 4 came out. heck even before then. people were pushing 3.0GHz almost a year before it came out. And for a while after, we're looking at a 3.8GHz chip that is not giving as efficient a cpi as before anyway. I can play many old games on my new pc, but i cannot play old colsole games on a new console, or even try to play new colsole material on an aged console. usually you can traverse the gap with the budget version of the late videocard on the market.

2. The type of game. Shooters would always be at home on a keyboard and mouse. and tweakers (god anyone here REALLY tweak out for quake3? i'm talking getting the right amount of fps to maximize strafe jumping, visual settings for clarity etc.) Even an rpg like morrowind i preferred on the pc. mmorgps. There's little that can contend with the power of 104keys and a 5 button mouse at your disposal. There's little that can contend with some games ability to push multiple monitor support, and the feeling of immersion you can get from that (x2, flight sims etc)

3. quality of graphics. Computer graphics would always be far ahead. For the budget heavy spenders, they get to see graphics console gamers can only dream of till the next console.

4. ease of sharing data files. I know it's become easier for console gamers too, but for almost any game, plug in a usb key, send it off to your friend, and there you go - he's now using a save game from you.

5. fraps + movie maker. ok ok, a near garbage suggestion but it's just so fun to try

The probelm with using a console as an everyday pc, is tweakability. Only a few of use are gonna try sticking linux on the xbox, mod the controller output to be a usb and stik that on a hub. Of course those that arn't afraid to take that step are going to have a blast with the new cheap pc. though they'll find it extremely underpowered

The console market would coexist with the pc market untill they've taken the best ideas from each other, and start to look even more like each other.

[Exar_Kun]

PC gaming is killing itself.

Quite simply, PC gaming has become very rigidly defined genre-wise in the last few years.
PCs are good for RTS, FPS and MMORPGs.Simulators too, but that's niche.

FPS has begun the shift. The fact is that while mouse can give you great accuracy, a skilled analog stick user can replicate that accuracy almost perfectly with a pad.
MMORPG has also begun the shift. Conversation might have been a sticking point in the past, but now we can just use voice.

RTS eventually will be the last bastion of PC gaming.

And the sad fact is it did this to itself. Remember the Sierra of old?I do. I LOVE Quest for Glory and those other old adventure games. But the market didn't and they were stifled in favour of RTS and FPS. The PC market is completely saturated with them and other genres are dying/have died because of it.

The fact is that consoles provide a game library that is much more diversified than PCs do.

PC gaming will continue its decline until it reaches the lowest it can go, where only the hardcore buy games.

The fact is developers have a LOT more to gain by developing for consoles. Look at Half Life 2.I don't know the current sales on this but I doubt that it's even smelling the kind of success Halo 2 did.
The installed gaming base on consoles is quite simply larger. There may be however many hundred million computers in the world but when a game has to fight tooth and nail to make a platinum in that kind of base you know it's better to move on to greener pastures.
Developers are already starting their diversification. Bioware hs released Jade and Blizzard are moving ahead with Ghost.

I know the gaming community of GATT is first and foremost PC as far as majority goes and that this isn't the kind of thing you want to hear, but face reality, Sony took console gaming to the stars and PCs are still celebrating that they're flying around in the sky.

[TriniXaeno]

you make fine points exar but I would challenge you on the PC killing itself.

I don't think that is the case at all.

It has given us clearly defined genres not by luck, but by those being the most popular of game types over the years. They simply sold better and found homes more readily because gamers loved them.

It only makes sense to continue developing them.

GATT started and survived for years on two games and two games alone. Starcraft and Quake 3. RTS and FPS.

Two of the best games in their respective genres and readily lent themselves to multiplayer action. Fierce competition.

The console scene had fighting and sport games as their multiplayer strong point.

Equally defined and equally enjoyed.

The problem is a good gaming PC is much more expensive and complex than it's console brethren. Fierce competition amongst the big three (Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft) put gaming ads over the top and console prices at a low.

The PC platform of itself has no one benefactor to make a counter attack. Alienware with it's ludicrously priced machines not withstanding.

That is just a recipe for the PC to lose gaming ground to the consoles. What is even worse, is there isn't anything in motion set to change that.

Pressura.

You would have noticed that the GLs are including consoles as a staple now. We have Xbox, ps2 and gamecube.

Infact, 2005 is dedicated to establishing more of a console presence in direct response to this change in the gaming landscape.

Even the RTS market may not save the PC if the new consoles include keyboard and mice in their arsenal.

It would be even more uber if they could all play together. Plug your xbox 360 into the lan and jump in the Battlefield 2 sweat.

Only time will tell.

[Exar_Kun]

Yes, FPS proved popular.
But instead of keeping the market broad or deepening the genre, PC devs release FPS by the bushel.

FPS upon FPS upon FPS.
Back when platoformers ruled consoles, you still saw heavy support of other genres.All genres in fact.

Also, I don't think PC is simply held back by the price of a gaming quality PC. I just got a new PC like less than a week ago, X850 XT Platinum and a 500watt 5.1 sound system, but I still look forward more to later year CONSOLE releases than PC releases.

My XBox or PS2 by itself (GC is another story) will see more use than this PC will as a gaming machine. Even despite the fact that I can easily get more games than I know what to do with simply by making a few calls, or bit torrenting even.

You are correct about fighting and sports being concoles staple multiplayer but now console has equally attacked FPS as a big multiplayer and even 3PS shooters like SOCOM. Great diversity.

That is something the PC market is not offering.

[TriniXaeno]

well I am an avid pc gamer and I know for a fact that the platform offered very diverse titles. Every single Genre can be found on the PC. From fighting to puzzle.

Not just fps after fps. Again, the biggest sellers may have been FPS and RTS titles but that doesn't mean the other genres weren't being produced. They were.

The problem was that they weren't being BOUGHT.

Simple economics.

If the market wasn't there, the supply started drying up.

I absolutely loved the sierra adventure games. Bought all the Quest for Glory games and the SOUND TRACK! lol

Those games shaped my life.

Still, they generally flopped at the cash register and now they are gone forever.

* [X]-Baego sheds tear.

If everyone could afford a hot gaming rig like you, then the market will be much more bouyant.

Fact is, everyone can't. They are much more likely to plunk down US$200 for a console than US$2000 for a gaming rig with X850.

Again, simple numbers. More console gamers = bigger market = more developer support.

Ultimately eroding the PC game market. Collateral damage iwmc.

That is the truth of the matter.

Another problem, is most people who would know enough about PCs to get a tricked out gaming rig, will also know their way around the underworld and get their games for free.

On the other hand, the average console gamer would be less tech centric and more likely to buy a game off the shelf, sans mod and iso drama.

Every PC is in itself, "modded" with no copy protection system native to it. A serious problem.

The # of unmodded consoles out there are obvioulsy driving the sales figures in the favour of console titles over their PC counterparts.

Again, we agree on this, the odds are stacked against the PC platform.

pressura.

[Beomagi]

One can easily argue that it's because consoles keep changing, the more stable pc platform is much more attractive to developers It's easy to pick up direct x, even easier for opengl. compare that to say, the steep learning curves imposed by sony with their ps2, or the propietary api's(if they're even ready) for cell programming on the next gen consoles. Plus if there'a a bug - release a patch. Not as easy on a console.

And price really is becoming less of an issue. Unless you're trying to play BF2, even the lowly 9600 can play most of what you want to toss at it. BUDGET 6200 and 6600 cards can let casual gamers, and budget gamers play the latest games - albeit not at eyecandy levels that look good on a monitor, but tv out would hide a lot

Exar, that fps shift is dead before it started. sure we're going to see more and more fps games on the console, but really playing halo is like wading through molasses. It's easy to use a stick to aim. There is NO way you're EVER going to find someone capable of playing fast paced shooters with a stick.

When the snes came out, was the pc dead? that took the platformers and scrollers by storm. When the playstation came, the pc lived on. the n64, ps2, the xbox the gamecube. Each release touched on a slightly better than current top on the pc at the time (lasting thanks to the ever growing power of the pc) for a couple of months at best.

For PC gaming to die, the PC itself would have to die. Because as long as people wanna use the pc for entertainment, they'll willingly put up another couple hundred to turn their pc into a game station.

[TriniXaeno]

while directx does lessen the stress of dealing with the PC platform at the basic coding level, it doesn't change the fact that the PC is a WIDE and DIVERSE beast.

You've got everything from Pentium 133, 64MB of ram with onboard video to Athlon 64 4000+, 2GB DDR 3200, Nvidia 7800GTX out there on the landscape.

All fully qualified as a "PC".

So whereas there are 1 billion PCs out there, your game's minimum requirement may narrow that platform down to 1/10th of that, easily.

Then you got video drivers to contend with. Battlefield 2 actually ships with Nvidia drivers and forcibly installs them to ensure smooth operation.

Console has it much better. All Ps2s are pretty much the same. Produce a game that runs well on one and it is guaranteed to run well on all the PS2s sold, the world over. The way it was meant to be played. No quirky graphics or sound issues. No lag.

THAT is an incredible advantage that ease of use of OpenGL / Directx will never outweigh.

The PC has fended off attacks from the console side of the fence in the past but damage has been done.

With every wave of new console titles and hardware, the gap closes and the noose tightens.

As you saw, 1Billion PC game sales vs 6 Billion in console game sales.

The figures tell an alarmingly true story. Don't feel the investors and share holders of the big gaming houses aren't watching those stats.

Economics iwmc.

[TinyGrasshopper]

Baego's pretty much highlighted all the cons for PC that explain the PC predicament.

PC barrier for consumers: Cost and complications of installing hardware and software.
PC barrier for developers: Not a flat platform, the platform isn't marketed to the wider audience.
PC advantages: Customizable, Modder scene, Emulation

Console barrier for hardcore consumers: Not 'deep' enough
Console barrier for developers: Cost of developing a Console game is astronomical.
Console advantages: Developer support, Ease of use

Again I think it supports the mainstream and independent angles. These features support Mainstream cashcows and prevent innovative Independent/Hardcore games from flourishing the way they used to on all platforms. I think that to adapt PC developers should start to experiment with innovations that try to remove their barriers in addition to the typical 'deep' gameplay. Once they do that SONY and Microsoft will try to monetize them and they'd benefit in the end.

Further ahead though, who knows? maybe we'll be banging on crappy games the way, this year it's just been a glut of awful movies.

[Beomagi]

pc advantage - spend less on testing thanks to the ability to patch the game (i dont doubt that it may lose that advantage in the future though)

Gotta wonder where we're going with all this

I mean, it's impossible for something like pc gaming to die - the general purpose pc is by all rights, a versatile beast. It's meant to do everything we want it to do and then some. We have hundreds of games coming out each year, and last couple of years have been great for the pc. Even with the release of the new consoles, there's no danger. The closest the pc can come to the dodo is in size - dodos were kinda big right?

Many developers complained about the ps2 at the start. It was insanely hard to code for and sony did not provide development tools. companies that already invested in making games for it already had to make their own tools as they went on. Sure the pc has a diverse set of components - but noone runs their snes games on their n64 (cept yoshi). In my eyes, buying a game console, is as simple as purchasing a 6600 or better, if you already have a decently fast enough pc minus vidcard and maybe ram. What percentage of people have a 1.5GHz or faster cpu? I'm gonna guess a lot of younger families and households do, a lot of the young-middle aged people too. It's handling the upgrade themselves they prolly fear :/

Actually there was one console i know that had a keyboard - the dreamcast. Ah soo many hours playing soul cal on that now if only they could emulate it perfectly... It's such a shame it dies too. The Kyro would have been a nice competitor had it developed.

Looking at the figures does say that consoles are winning for game sales, that IS their one and usually only purpose, but It also tells me people are spending more on both. There's no dodos here. Only a mainstream gaming experience, and those who dwell in exclusivity.

[Exar_Kun]

I absolutely loved the sierra adventure games. Bought all the Quest for Glory games and the SOUND TRACK! lol

Okay now hold up.
I think the real question is: do you still have the games?
Because I searched for years for QFG5 and never found it.
The series I started back on my old 4Mhz 386 has never been completed.

Exar, that fps shift is dead before it started. sure we're going to see more and more fps games on the console, but really playing halo is like wading through molasses. It's easy to use a stick to aim. There is NO way you're EVER going to find someone capable of playing fast paced shooters with a stick.

Oh I beg to disagree.
I think you'll find that console gamers have a MUCH higher dexterity level than PC gamers.
Console games are a LOT more 'twitch' oriented and that makes for much quicker reflexes.
When you can find PC equivalents to men throwing out moves with a 1/20 of a second window, then talk.

Console FPS has never garnered as much attention as PC FPS to date but you can bet that as far as raw reflexes and dexterity goes, console gamers can more than match up.

[Kaizen]

roarrrrrrr
dammit....someon lock this thread i cant take anymore bashing at pc
yall console ppl love the thing to much
i am a console and pc person i prefer my pc i not gone state no points or anything like that...cause tiny and them buss enough cap in allyuh but like allyuh bulletproof
....."pics up a BFG" ...O_o ...think about it PC IS STILL HERE
and stillwillbe imo .....we just gone miss out alot .......
and are you sure PS3 COMIN out with everything stated... xbox 360 is impressive though..
bah hambug "revolution to the pc gamers!"

[TriniXaeno]

lol

Yeah, I got the anthology and qfg v dragon fire discs. Think I loan it to my bro, Wolf. Will give him a call to see if he can lay his hands on it.

Those were real gems. Brilliant games.

Console gamers are exactly that, gamers and they stand a good chance of achieving greatness on the PC just as they would on an arcade machine or any other gaming platform. Moot point iwmc.

Laertes, it's difficult to speak for all developers and say they won't welcome the keyboard and mouse to the console scene. In the fierce landscape, they will take any edge they can get. The smartjoy keyboard/mouse converter for the xbox has already been making waves in Halo circles. Some consider it an unfair advantage as it is superior to the gamepad for obvious reasons.

Space and complexity are points against the setup but that may change if a developer gets it done right, with some super cool looking wireless mouse and keyboard add on for their console. (My money is on MS)

Beomagi, how many cool games do you see on the Mac?
Not many right. The mac and the PC started off together. Yet one is being left out in the cold when it comes to kick ass gaming titles. Why?
Because the PC has larger market share by FAR.

Remember, Bungie was once a Mac game developer. How many Mac games has Bungie released in recent times?

Now their games come out on Xbox first and on PC "AFTER"

See the trend? If you have limited man hours and resources dedicated to producing one great game, you will target the bigger market. Just makes economic sense.

It is only going to get worse as consoles continue to become the larger market by far.

Lol @ kaizen roar.

Don't worry. It will be a slow death and we have many a strongholds left in FPS, RTS and online RPGs to last us some years.

As gamers, it will only get better. Look at the bright side, soon you won't have to worry about viruses, hacks, or spyware interupting your gaming since you'll be on a console. They are safe, (for now) lol

[ProtoJoe]

Ok, I don't really have much to imput as most of you here, but I will say this though.

As much as the pc is struggling, (as it was said before) it is still here, and to be quite frank, it isnt going anywhere! Most games which are released as "exclusive" titles for console games most times find there way to the pc, almost allways.

And with FPS and RTS games, pcs are untouchable thus far, I mean there are a fair number of FPS on console which are commendable, but between that, and a GOOD FPS on PC,  any gamer, and REAL gamer would choose pc...it just feels natural.

But like I said before, and this would be my only quarel with PC gaming.....the ever so constant need of upgrading (not like every week eh). And its not just that, it really does hurt your buget. Thats the ONLY problem which I have, personally, with PC gaming, other than that, PCs all the way!