Author Topic: Emulators VS real thing  (Read 10142 times)

Offline TrinireturnofGamez

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Emulators VS real thing
« on: October 02, 2003, 05:33:02 PM »
have you even played tekken 3 on EPSXE?? with a little tweaking you can gett the textures 4x higher res , the models higher poly etc. and it still floats around 80-100 FPS on mine .
  Soon this may apply to the new soles, it seems that the PC will hold the dominant place in gaming                    
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« on: October 02, 2003, 05:33:02 PM »

Offline spinner

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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2003, 05:36:16 PM »
yeah, tekken 3 does play good on my emu, but its a little slow                    



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Offline !Synth

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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2003, 11:20:42 PM »
Food for thought. If it takes so much PC power to emulate a 33Mhz console what do you think it would take for a modern day console?                    

Offline Hitman_Jim

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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2003, 11:27:10 PM »
i prefer emulators..  they are so flexable                    

Offline rb2k2

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2003, 11:37:40 PM »
synth is right , i remember seeing the specs for  dc / naomi arcade emulation . A high end system now  would run the games on those systems at roughly 6 frames per second.                    

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2003, 11:37:40 PM »

Offline ~*Ashiee*~

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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2003, 01:21:05 AM »
if u char afford the real thing nothing wrong with an emulator

game is game                    

Offline Ninja644

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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2003, 04:04:50 AM »
Quote
if u char afford the real thing nothing wrong with an emulator

game is game
PLOY PLOY SPLIT! Wha ppl fail to understand, is that PC ppl like me, who have no money, would have to suffer with emulators. Even though SOMETIMES it doesn't run perfect like the arcade/console version, it's good enough to play and enjoy. I not goin to lie, when ppl does see me sweatin games like chrono cross and ff8 on my pc they does laugh and ask how i does play it? Because the graphics a LITTLE poorer and doesn't run as smooth doh mean it not playable, but sometimes when the computer emulates it, it's clearer than other versions....                    


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Offline vinion2000

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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2003, 07:42:56 AM »
Quote
Quote
if u char afford the real thing nothing wrong with an emulator

game is game
PLOY PLOY SPLIT! Wha ppl fail to understand, is that PC ppl like me, who have no money, would have to suffer with emulators. Even though SOMETIMES it doesn't run perfect like the arcade/console version, it's good enough to play and enjoy. I not goin to lie, when ppl does see me sweatin games like chrono cross and ff8 on my pc they does laugh and ask how i does play it? Because the graphics a LITTLE poorer and doesn't run as smooth doh mean it not playable, but sometimes when the computer emulates it, it's clearer than other versions....


firstly PSX emulation has surpass the actual console. EPSXE with the help of Dave have made this the best emu in that category. like i tell many ppl in my psx forum the better looking you want it the more power you going to need. you need a 600mhz cpu and a 16mb gcard to atleast match the psx performance ( ofcourse this is dependant on the game as some games take more resources than others ESPECIALLY SQUARESOFT GAMES). at present i have a 2.4ghz p4 and a GF4 Ti so i dont really worry about settings plus we all using the new Open Gl 2 plugin dave is making. its better and emulating the psx effects and transitions as well as games look sweet but requires a beast to run at a good frame rate.

*edit* about emulation unlike a console different games require different settings as some games push the system more than others. on a psx emu a game like Marvel vs Cap would run on a 300mhz celeron while a game like FF9 would still stutter on a 1ghz machine. as well as the game remember that in a emu like epsxe all the settings for the GPU (video) are enhancement settings and increase the games graphic quality. which means the higher the settings the better the machine needs to be. as well as the power of the Gcard.

most emulators have surpassed their consoles. ZNES emulated super nintendo games better than the system itself the same goes for Kgen. some just choose to emulate exactly like the console. VGS emulated exactly like the psx, software rendering and all. (question - when last have you seen a game offer you software rendering as an option?)

as for arcade emulation most games are 100% perfectly emulated. what makes it look different is that a) your sitting closer to the screen B)a monitor differs from a screen in the arcade c) memory can be a strange thing (especially if its an old game)

finaly i want to make something clear EMULATION IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR PIRACY. i dont really want to blur the lines or misconstrue the issue. most ppl take it for granted that the two go hand in hand but its really not suppose to. excuses like cant afford and prices to high is whats causing the emulation community to be swamped by greedy n00bs and leechers. alot of the psx games i test and play are original. im not saying that i myself dont have a few copies lying about. yet atleast have some humility in the fact that your its wrong.

*edit* if anyone needs help with emulation on the whole just give me a buzz.                    
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Offline Waggy

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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2003, 09:29:01 AM »
Quote
i prefer emulators..  they are so flexable


And cheap?

And synth is right.
The fastest console that could be emulated is the N64 is I'm not mistaken, and you need to come good with specs for that.
Imagine a PS2 emulator. That'll be damn near impossible to render.                    
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2003, 09:51:41 AM »
Quote
Quote
i prefer emulators..  they are so flexable


And cheap?

And synth is right.
The fastest console that could be emulated is the N64 is I'm not mistaken, and you need to come good with specs for that.
Imagine a PS2 emulator. That'll be damn near impossible to render.


actually that isnt true. the Xbox is the fastest console emulated it just isnt playing commercial games as yet.
also the power need for N64 isnt as much as you think but the N64 emulation sceene has been dead for about 2yrs now due to nintendo pressure. the emulators havent been optimized or configured to match newer games. project 64 is the last of the good n64 emulators. that has been on/off for the past 2yrs. there are updates but none that really focus on optimisation. on the other hand epsxe has been tweak and tweaked till more and more games require less resourse to play well. its just a matter of who and how many ppl work on the project. a PS2 emulator is very possible and there is one that plays non-commercial games. a 2ghz system handles it rather nicely.

what makes those system damn hard to emulate are the processes within the machine some diliberately made to avoid emulation. im pretty sure by the time they effectively get ps2 emulation running 1ghz machines will be playing games.                    
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Offline !Synth

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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2003, 01:24:18 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
if u char afford the real thing nothing wrong with an emulator

game is game
PLOY PLOY SPLIT! Wha ppl fail to understand, is that PC ppl like me, who have no money, would have to suffer with emulators. Even though SOMETIMES it doesn't run perfect like the arcade/console version, it's good enough to play and enjoy. I not goin to lie, when ppl does see me sweatin games like chrono cross and ff8 on my pc they does laugh and ask how i does play it? Because the graphics a LITTLE poorer and doesn't run as smooth doh mean it not playable, but sometimes when the computer emulates it, it's clearer than other versions....


firstly PSX emulation has surpass the actual console. EPSXE with the help of Dave have made this the best emu in that category. like i tell many ppl in my psx forum the better looking you want it the more power you going to need. you need a 600mhz cpu and a 16mb gcard to atleast match the psx performance ( ofcourse this is dependant on the game as some games take more resources than others ESPECIALLY SQUARESOFT GAMES). at present i have a 2.4ghz p4 and a GF4 Ti so i dont really worry about settings plus we all using the new Open Gl 2 plugin dave is making. its better and emulating the psx effects and transitions as well as games look sweet but requires a beast to run at a good frame rate.

*edit* about emulation unlike a console different games require different settings as some games push the system more than others. on a psx emu a game like Marvel vs Cap would run on a 300mhz celeron while a game like FF9 would still stutter on a 1ghz machine. as well as the game remember that in a emu like epsxe all the settings for the GPU (video) are enhancement settings and increase the games graphic quality. which means the higher the settings the better the machine needs to be. as well as the power of the Gcard.

most emulators have surpassed their consoles. ZNES emulated super nintendo games better than the system itself the same goes for Kgen. some just choose to emulate exactly like the console. VGS emulated exactly like the psx, software rendering and all. (question - when last have you seen a game offer you software rendering as an option?)

as for arcade emulation most games are 100% perfectly emulated. what makes it look different is that a) your sitting closer to the screen B)a monitor differs from a screen in the arcade c) memory can be a strange thing (especially if its an old game)

finaly i want to make something clear EMULATION IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR PIRACY. i dont really want to blur the lines or misconstrue the issue. most ppl take it for granted that the two go hand in hand but its really not suppose to. excuses like cant afford and prices to high is whats causing the emulation community to be swamped by greedy n00bs and leechers. alot of the psx games i test and play are original. im not saying that i myself dont have a few copies lying about. yet atleast have some humility in the fact that your its wrong.

*edit* if anyone needs help with emulation on the whole just give me a buzz.





Well said. I didn't mean to play down the amazing achievements of emu
developers. I of all people can truly appreciate having even at one time tried
to write my own emu. I have been on the emu scene for years now...ever since
the first real snes emu, vitual super wildcard, was in beta and played mario world
at about 10 fps on my pentium 133. Its was really then at that point the scene
took off and its never slowed down since!

What I was referring to was the abilty to emulate as near as the original as
possible; What hardware would it take. Didn't want people having too high an
expectation such that it prevents them from purchasing a console in the present
or near future. This way of thinking not only harms the very same industry we
so depend on to entertain us, but hinders even greater progress with respect to
better gaming experiences. There will always be those who prefer consoles, even
if PCs can do it technically better. I for one is such.

It is true that emulation has actually reached a state where it is improved
past the original (in many types), at least technically. But they do so at a
cost, often too high a cost for a typical pc...and thats just for a "mere" psx
mind you.

But on the flipside, newer consoles are now just basically PCs with custom
designed "videocards". So yes it may not take THAT much effort as in the past.

Point is no matter how fast emu developers works it will take time...lots of
time. Not to mention the legal issues to deal with. Either way were doomed to
try and emulate @ 100% those consoles which are a few generations old. Is it
worth waiting to play "outdated" console games? Thats up to you to decide.                    

Offline !Synth

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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2003, 01:27:04 PM »
1. Emulation on non-commercial games is useless. Point is moot until it can actually plays games people buy.

2. I am willing to bet you now. PS2 will NEVER be playable (well not anywhere
near 100%) on 1GHZ without a custom designed video "board". Something to the
effect of the Dreamcast board Sega was once planning for PCs.

3. By such a time, would it really matter to anyone?                    

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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2003, 01:33:39 PM »
lol i agree with this whole thread, many good points are being made here on both sides...

The emulation will always struggle, since the emulator will have to try to accomplish commands that can be used on the original systems, that would be specfic to that system.

A PC could emulate a PS2...but it's just that the PS2 is largely designed with one objective in mind: to run games. On the other hand, the PC isn't designed, and thus can only overcome its limitations by pure brute force....

By the time the speed can overcome it though, we would only be playing games on it for nostalgia's sake...

Like how we would play Chrono Trigger on the SNES emulators now...                    
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Offline hiddenagenda

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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2003, 01:47:32 PM »
Emulator is a poorman way to get to play the games..
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2003, 02:49:35 PM »
and what wrong with that Hidden.....legally all i have to own is the roms.....so why should I buy a system when I have a decent emulator? If u want to have a console, well that is you, I rather the performance and power of my PC, as as Vinion said before most emulators have surpassed their consoles.....I legally own some ORIGINAL PS2 titles and have seen them run near flawlessly on a Computer with the aid of a good emulator and some decent plugins behind them. And u can be sure i played alot less for my gaming experience than the console boys out there.                    
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2003, 06:01:55 PM »
amm two things. we really really shouldnt be talkin bout htios on de boards and further more a mod shuldnt be condoning the use of emulators and roms if a person cant afford to purchase said game and system.


secondly

virutal emulation is limited of course, the dc still cant be properly emulated off of straight virtual emulation

das where more use of hardware will be needed
and iam sure most emulators do offer the option of using yur hard ware to push the emulator, so if yu get a dread board and card as some one said, it would be possible, plus the addition of tweaks can make it even better

take out the god aweful jaggies in so many gaystation games.                    

Offline Ninja644

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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2003, 07:02:34 PM »
Crixx why is it such a big crime to express our VIEWS on this. We're not encouraging it or anything, we're having a discussion. I know it's illegal and all of that, but still.... I'm actually learning a ting or two here                    


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Offline !Synth

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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2003, 11:22:00 PM »
1. Emulation is not illegal.

2. Talking about it neither wrong nor illegal. Saying it is or leads to something that is wrong or illegal is like saying we shouldn't talk about games period...because we all know *everyone* pirates if we do!

3. I never condone the use of illegally owned roms. Feel free to point out otherwise.

4. The reason I haven't striked/censored anyone's comment is simply because piraters will be piraters, whether they say it aloud or not. Now if someone posted links to sites or something to encourage piracy that would be another matter altogether.

As far as I see we have stuck to a mostly legal and technical discussion. Fee free to PM if you still believe somethign is amiss here.


Quote
amm two things. we really really shouldnt be talkin bout htios on de boards and further more a mod shuldnt be condoning the use of emulators and roms if a person cant afford to purchase said game and system.


secondly

virutal emulation is limited of course, the dc still cant be properly emulated off of straight virtual emulation

das where more use of hardware will be needed
and iam sure most emulators do offer the option of using yur hard ware to push the emulator, so if yu get a dread board and card as some one said, it would be possible, plus the addition of tweaks can make it even better

take out the god aweful jaggies in so many gaystation games.
                   

Offline Crixx_Creww

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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2003, 03:12:07 AM »
Quote
1. Emulation is not illegal.

2. Talking about it neither wrong nor illegal. Saying it is or leads to something that is wrong or illegal is like saying we shouldn't talk about games period...because we all know *everyone* pirates if we do!

3. I never condone the use of illegally owned roms. Feel free to point out otherwise.

4. The reason I haven't striked/censored anyone's comment is simply because piraters will be piraters, whether they say it aloud or not. Now if someone posted links to sites or something to encourage piracy that would be another matter altogether.  

As far as I see we have stuck to a mostly legal and technical discussion. Fee free to PM if you still believe somethign is amiss here.


Quote
amm two things. we really really shouldnt be talkin bout htios on de boards and further more a mod shuldnt be condoning the use of emulators and roms if a person cant afford to purchase said game and system.


secondly

virutal emulation is limited of course, the dc still cant be properly emulated off of straight virtual emulation

das where more use of hardware will be needed
and iam sure most emulators do offer the option of using yur hard ware to push the emulator, so if yu get a dread board and card as some one said, it would be possible, plus the addition of tweaks can make it even better

take out the god aweful jaggies in so many gaystation games.



i actually wasnt refering to you whe ni said a mod shouldnt be condoning the use of roms if yu dont wanna buy a game

i was reffering to splits comment. :)
just thought she shouldnt have said that                    

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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2003, 03:18:45 PM »
By the way the ps2's emulation status is advancing considerably, a few commercial games are playable already so it's not impossible. Everything is still in beta stages mind you                    

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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2003, 03:18:45 PM »

 


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