Rise of the Machines: Epic battle of the ages between PCs, Consoles and Mobiles

[MessiaaH]

Yea, saw the chromecast, looks interesting

[TriniXaeno]

Rumor has it that Amazon wants in on the mobile gaming action

http://bgr.com/2013/08/09/amazon-video-game-console-release-date/

There refresh of the kindle fire line is also looking impressive.

http://bgr.com/2013/07/30/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-2-specs-exclusive/

They are really going all out with the power. Top of the line snapdragon ftw

the upcoming new 7-inch Kindle Fire HD tablet, we already reported that the slate will feature a high-resolution 1,920 x 1,200-pixel display and a new design, and now we can fill in the blanks. We’re told the tablet will be powered by a quad-core Qualcomm Snapdragon 800 (MSM8974) system on a chip, which includes four Krait 400 CPUs and Adreno 330 graphics. Prototypes are said to be clocked at about 2GHz.

[TriniXaeno]

Another entrant in the mobile gaming arena

http://store.greenthrottle.com/?Click=280



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B77OKNI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00B77OKNI&linkCode=as2&tag=g12n7-20


Also: http://allthingsd.com/20130821/google-play-skates-into-second-place-in-mobile-gamer-spending-past-nintendo-and-sonys-handhelds/

BOOM



As the Jamaican's would say...mek room mek we pass.

Leave out for the mobile consoles...next stop....your living room.

[MessiaaH]

And so they rise!

http://www.carigamers.com/cms/forums/index.php/topic,28460.0.html

[TriniXaeno]

boom bang. Very strong showing.

Nice product refresh. And so they rise indeed!

[MessiaaH]

Seriously, the power of that thing, all 99% of people need a desktop for now is game. And with Xbox/ps4 available for 400~500, usefulness of the traditional desktop really in trouble.

come home, dock in, that's ur pc. Very impressive.

MS say, post pc era? Fine, we go just change d pc.

What go be epic is if u can buy like a surface gaming station.
A box that can hold GPUs, maybe a CPU, connected to ur dock.

So come home, dock in, u have full gpu horsepower for pc gaming, that go be epic. *MS, make this happen!*

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt, I want u to take a nice long HARD read of this. It's an article by Nvidia Themselves, the same NVidia you claim is going to usher in the age of parity graphics between mobile and console, and worse yet, mobile and pc.

The points NVidia made are the same points ive been reiterating for months, Physics is physics, science is science, u cant defy the laws of physics because u have a wishlist. Have a gander:


I'm not sure why people feel the need to explain that it's "no longer possible" for consoles to have better graphics than a PC". Have a peek at a part of the interview, after the break.

PCPP: In the past, when a new console launched, the graphics were on par, if not even better, than a reasonably well-specced PC of the time. Yet at this year's E3, we noticed that the Xbox One and PS4 demos didn't look as good as the earlier PC demos of the same games. Do you think the lead that consoles had in the past at launch day is over?

Tamasi: It’s no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC. I’ll tell you why. In the past, certainly with the first PlayStation and PS2, in that era there weren’t really good graphics on the PC. Around the time of the PS2 is when 3D really started coming to the PC, but before that time 3D was the domain of Silicon Graphics and other 3D workstations. Sony, Sega or Nintendo could invest in bringing 3D graphics to a consumer platform. In fact, the PS2 was faster than a PC.

By the time of the Xbox 360 and PS3, the consoles were on par with the PC. If you look inside those boxes, they’re both powered by graphics technology by AMD or NVIDIA, because by that time all the graphics innovation was being done by PC graphics companies. NVIDIA spends 1.5 billion US dollars per year on research and development in graphics, every year, and in the course of a console’s lifecycle we’ll spend over 10 billion dollars into graphics research. Sony and Microsoft simply can’t afford to spend that kind of money. They just don’t have the investment capacity to match the PC guys; we can do it thanks to economy of scale, as we sell hundreds of millions of chips, year after year.

“It’s no longer possible for a console to be a better or more capable graphics platform than the PC”

The second factor is that everything is limited by power these days. If you want to go faster, you need a more efficient design or a bigger power supply. The laws of physics dictate that the amount of performance you’re going to get from graphics is a function of the efficiency of the architecture, and how much power budget you’re willing to give it. The most efficient architectures are from NVIDIA and AMD, and you’re not going to get anything that is significantly more power efficient in a console, as it’s using the same core technology. Yet the consoles have power budgets of only 200 or 300 Watts, so they can put them in the living room, using small fans for cooling, yet run quietly and cool. And that’s always going to be less capable than a PC, where we spend 250W just on the GPU. There’s no way a 200W Xbox is going to be beat a 1000W PC.

 

But how is this different from the launch of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, where they still had these power limitations but were on par with the PC?

Because at that time, the PC graphics industry wasn’t operating at the limits of device physics and power. If you wind back the clock, a high-end graphics card at that time was maybe 75W or 100W max. We weren’t building chips that were on the most advanced semiconductor process and were billions of transistors. Now we’re building GPUs at the limits of what’s possible with fabrication techniques. Nobody can build anything bigger or more powerful than what is in the PC at the moment. It just is not possible, but that wasn’t the case in the last generation of consoles. Taken to the theoretical limits, the best any console could ever do would be to ship a console that is equal to the best PC at that time. But then a year later it’s going to be slower, and it still wouldn’t be possible due to the power limits.

There’s been a shift here, the R&D budgets required to build the PC’s level of graphics are enormous, there are only a few companies that can do it. The technology that we’re applying to PC graphics is literally state of the art, at the limits of semiconductor technology. That’s why I don’t think it’s possible any more to have a console that can outperform the PC.

source

full review

[TriniXaeno]

That isn't saying anything new.

We already knew and agreed on this particular train of thought.

It doesn't change any of the plans for mobile devices rising (which they will). In fact, they conceded that the desktop and console industry has hit a plateau. Which means even more time for those devices to catch up.

A break through in power and performance will come. Or as you just mentioned in the Surface thread, an external source for when you're near a plug.

A man not gonna run battlefield 5 on his phone while jogging around the savannah. He will be near a plug.

Lots of potential solutions to that problem and more importantly....a lot of bright people at big companies working on it.

Mobile is the future and they all know that. Watch and see.

Also, a point that was made before....there is a real point of diminishing returns for graphics, for many games and genres.

It is only the elite few....I would dare say...less than 5% of the gaming population that run PCs capable of surpassing the next gen consoles.

By far the majority have played and thoroughly enjoyed games on what you would consider "substandard" equipment.

For example, right now...gamers the world over are playing Grand Theft Auto 5 on PS3s and Xbox 360s which are horribly outdated by PC standards.

Mobile needs only to catch up with the consoles to achieve the tipping point. At which, they will surely surpass all as the defacto gaming platform in the world.

[MessiaaH]

mobiles will never catch up, unless aided by some sort of external booster box, at which point, it wont be mobile again. A hybrid of sorts i coudl see happening, dock into yuh power station at home for gaming, jack out and on d road for everything else.

Also, the majority of PCs will outperform the next gen consoles in a short 3 years if that.

Ah rel budget pc with a single 670 will run that ps4 like ah dog. lol.
And of corse rel men freaking gta on old gen, becuase next gen not avaialbe yet.

But like i said, from a purely power and gaming standpoint, mobiles will never ever catch up in their current form.
Some sort of hybrid docking business will have to happen to make that a reality.

Dont really care about my phone being able to do that, but replacing the traditional desktop with a tablet/core hybrid. Where u detach a fully functional pc and gone with it, and when u reach home u dock it into a power core to increase speed / storage / gpu power? that would be epic!

We'll get there, it go just take a while.

[TriniXaeno]

Exactly.

It does not have to "catch up" to PC's potential. We covered in great detail in this thread earlier.

At 1080p, there is only so much processing power required to render games.

Hell, the majority of console gamers currently aren't even playing at 720p.

Halo, CoD, etc...are all running at sub 720p on current gen hardware.

Mobile doesn't have to push 4K res at 60fps to WIN.

The target is much much lower.

Not sure why you want us to rehash? I thought we both came to happy terms on these points already?

[MessiaaH]

We did, but there was something fundamental in your arguments before concerning the capabilities of mobile devices and being able to produce capable / superior graphics to a dedicated console box, that nvidia article basically saying such a task is impossible when governed by our current level and understanding of science.

But that 720/1080p arugment will soon be moot, with the launch of Next Gen, no game will be runing 720p, and with the rappid (and surprisingly so) adoption of 4k, soon 1080p will be mess, which is why next gen touting they are capable of 4k.

Also, dont mistake nvidia's statement for graphics plateau on PC eh. PC graphics going to continue to evolve at an alarming pace. What he was saying was, PCs now are at the point they will always be on the cutting edge of what is technologically possible in graphics technology. Next year there will be a Titan 2 that doubles the performance of current titan, etc etc etc. 1.5 billion $ a year in graphics research, they eh slowing down, and they aint plateau.

[TriniXaeno]

Poll of men running 4k on GATT? I'd wager less than 10.

Even by next year Christmas, I'll still wager less than 10.

For a vast majority of gaming titles, genres and gamers....1080p is more than enough.

For mobile to rise and become the standard, they don't need to eclipse the absolute performance of the PC platform.

I drew the example of arcade machines back in the day....even though an arcade cabinet was still more powerful than a home console....the fact that you could get a 1:1 replica of street fighter at home was sufficient to see the death of that industry.

I use the term death loosely because obviously arcade cabinets are still made to this day. To be clear, it is to illustrate that consoles have now vastly outnumbers arcade machines as the gaming platform of choice.

That will soon be the case with mobile.

As you mentioned yourself, the surface pro from Microsoft is now faster than 95% of laptops on the market.

That is nothing to sneeze at and no small accomplishment.

Look at the incredibly small and compact form factor and the amount of power they have been able to squeeze into it.

AMAZING.

Think two to three years down the road.

And you KNOW their competitors not sleeping on the job. There will be products to rival it in performance and price.

Surface Pro is already powerful enough to play some of the most popular PC games in the world. Dota 2 and League of Legends.

Those games don't need 4K. They are perfectly fine @ 720p and glorious at 1080p.

Critical mass will never be at the bleeding edge of technology (where the PC enthusiast crowd exists). Remember that.

[MessiaaH]

Ask the question, how much men on GATT running ssd 5 years ago, ud get the same answer, now its difficult to buy a pc that doesn't have an ssd. As too its difficult to buy a monitor that isn't 1080p, at one point 1080 was also a luxury only few could afford.

but like I keep saying, tech not standing still.
4k will be going for gunta price in no time.

hell, d Asus monitor is 3500 but u can already buy junta LCD with 4k for 600us, lo,.
one year wont be enough, but give it 2-3 and everybody will have 4k screens.

and surface pro is more powerful than 95% of laptops, but is not gaming we talking bout.
Gaming performance of the surface suck just as hard as any laptop out there lacking a dedicated gpu.

consumption and productivity performance, yes, surface is a beast.

but gaming is completely different and the power requirements for it is drastically higher (as NVIDIA also pointed out).

and to circle back to ur 720p argument, I am telling u, there will not be a single next gen gem released running at that res. Zero, none, nada, it just aint gonna happen. 1080p is the new minimum, and 4k will take over very quickly, faster than ssd I mite add, and ssd didn't take that long.

same thing happened with blurry, men say DVD is perfectly fine, go amazon and try buy ah latest movie DVD nah lōlolol.

4k will be standard alot sooner than u think. There is even talk of the movie industry skipping 4k and going straight 8. Llololol, ridiculous.

[MessiaaH]

Btw, the movie industry had alot to do with 1080p staying around so long, because that was the limit Hollywood set. Which influence what TVs were sold. So everybody have 1080p TV home now. A market wayyyy beyond pc gaming.

but with Hollywood adopting 4k, soon u go see every 40" and higher LCD rocking 4k. Gunta prices in tow.

and ill also like to add that resolution is a very small part of what makes a game look good, there are 1080p games that will bring the most powerful gaming rig to its knees.

[TriniXaeno]

I doubt.

People still doing sub 1080p despite having 1080p screens. Right now, 2013.

Despite it being a popular and affordable res as far as LCD goes. The PS3 / 360 / Wii and Wii U still pushing content around 720p and less.

The new generation of consoles going to finally bring games into 1080p glory.

That is the xbox one and PS4. They are going to sit on the market for probably another 5 - 8 years before getting a refresh.

Effectively locking in the majority of gamers the world over to 1080p at MAX.

And even the PS4 has been brought into question as to whether it could really run top titles like Battlefield 4 at 1080p 60fps: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/23/gamescom-battlefield-4s-graphics-lacking-on-ps4

How about 4K res??? Not a chance!

Which leaves gaming at that resolution beyond the reach of consoles and by extension....the VAST majority of gamers for well into the year 2020

Like I said.....mobile need not worry about anything past 1080p for the foreseeable future.

[TriniXaeno]

Somewhat related....here is something you can do to put all that extra horsepower PCs have to practical use:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509076%3F&styleid=36

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt, lol, I hope we don't have to go another few pages well to understand each other / come to some kind of an agreement. lol

Ah go try again:

First to begin with, the majority if not all of the Tripple A titles out there for PS3 and Xbox 360 that release in the past 2 years are all 1080p. That counts for a lot, so d highest selling games are infact 1080p. That people play all the time. (incorrect statement, the majority are infact 720p)

Second, I don't know why u keep brining up 360/ps3, you always looking forward to the future for mobile, but when it comes to everything else, yUh only want to watch old thing. I am in no way atal interested in the 360/ps3. Next gen right there, that is what we dealing with. And next gen is capable of 4k.

Also, I said what drove 720/1080p adoption is the movie industry. Even if you think people not gaming at 1080p, bet yUh bottom dollar everybody watching 1080p content. And I not talking bout small lil Trinidad. You cant find a digital stream / cable channel / Netflix /hulu / amazon that aint 1080p now. And that's not even accounting for the massive bluray sales that does be taking place these days. Bluray didn't stop at 1080p, level truehd and dts-hdma in we skin.

By that same token, the movie industry is going to drive 4k, everybody going to have a 4k screen in they house wheather they like it or not. (Just like everyone have 3d tvs now wheather they use it or not). 3D content kinda happen to buss doh. 4k is different, 4k going big. And because 4k will be all over the place, affordable 4k monitors wont be far along atal. Which would make acquiring affordable 4k screens for pc gamers defacto standard. And with NVidia doubling performance year over year. Playing 4k games on a budget machine is only like 2 years away.

So in short, NO, mobile aint cetching up to jack.

And like I keep saying, resolution is only a miniscule part of what makes a game look good.
Shadows, lightening, physics, debris, shading, textures, etc etc etc, all add, and mobiles severely lack in all of those. even if they can produce 720p

[TriniXaeno]

Wyatt, lol, I hope we don't have to go another few pages well to understand each other / come to some kind of an agreement. lol

Ah go try again:

First to begin with, the majority if not all of the Tripple A titles out there for PS3 and Xbox 360 that release in the past 2 years are all 1080p. That counts for a lot, so d highest selling games are infact 1080p. That people play all the time.

I am not even going to read beyond this paragraph....honestly.

Are you for real???

[MessiaaH]

Very much so, cant argue with science. Yuh own NVidia said consoles will not be able to catch PCs, they literally said that, because of tpd and technological limitations, mobiles have no hope to come close to that power lol. Its fine if you don't read past that line. Facts is facts. cant argue down facts.

I think we had already come to an agreement on how mobiles could share licks. Just want to make it clear, power, is not how it's going to do it. (Directly refereeing to previous arguments where you were saying mobiles will match / beat console/pc performance in the near future). Your 5 year deadline almost up. lol.

[TriniXaeno]

Messiaah...I am thoroughly shocked that someone as technically sound as you would make such a glaring mistake.

VERY Few of current gen games are 1080p. A literal handful.

Even recent releases like GTA V, Last of Us, Halo 4, CoD BlackOps 2, etc.... all run at 720P or LESS.

That is why their graphics suck compared to any decent gaming PC which is capable of true 1080p rendering.

The next gen consoles will only NOW be able to push games at 1080p 60fps....and as mentioned before...they will have a shelf life of 5 - 8 years.

wow, truly shocked.