Rise of the Machines: Epic battle of the ages between PCs, Consoles and Mobiles

[MessiaaH]

Well we go see. I go address yUh post in parts.

1. Photography:

I never own a camera in meh life lolol. But I always had a phone, I probably had one of d first smart phones ever made. So I always appreciated the fact it can take photos. Apart from my appreciation, I did see camera tech in phones advancing. Ill be honest, so much years ago I never thought Nokia would have WTAPWN d competition with a 41mp sensor in a phone..... lol, but back then it was very easy to see d rise in MP in phone cameras.

Also, there is a significant and tangible need that needs to be filled by camera phones. Something that is essential to photography. When you want to snap a picture, of you kid doing something, or some thing on d road, or some event, some animal, whatever, u don't always have a camera on u, but u ALWAYS have yUh phone on yUh. Everybody always have they cell on them, even when they in d shitter. lol. So because of that, a good camera in a phone is not just wanted, it's needed. Hard hard hard core men, go still be walking witht hey dedicated point and shoot. But d average consumer don't be walking round with that. So how good a camera is in a phone is of vital importance to consumers. Me especially, I definitely getting the Lumia 1020. (And I does more use my camera for work now....)

Mobile gaming is not d same thing. It's not necessarily like the ability of taking pictures, nor do I think d general consumer gives 2 hoots about playing crisis on they phone. D lil angry birds etc to pass d time, sure.

Camera phones created a generation of photographers, ppl who enver even own a camera taking pictures now.
So too did simple mobile games created a whole new generation of gamers, the angry birds crouds, ppl who never play a game before gaming because of games like that.

But the core hardcore audience that will care about massive game technology development, is not d general consumer. D general consumer will still buy they playstation and they xbox. And use d phone for when they traveling or out on d road. D general consumer honestly doesn't care about gaming that much. But they do care about photos, facebook, twitter, whatsapp, vine, instagram, pinterest, etc etc etc. An entire ecosystem has been built around photography. People care a lot about that stuff. And d average dedicated point and shoot, cannot take photos and integrate with that ecosystem. Which is another reasons smartphone cameras became so prevalent. Some android cameras now trying to catch up offering real cameras with android slapped on for social media sharing, but smartphones already have that utility on lock, I don't see it catching on.

So my mind eh change, it still ehhhhh happening. lol.

[MessiaaH]

Would also like to point out, that even though camera technology has advanced dramatically in the past few years, it is no way no how, no shape or no form even comparable to a real current generation camera.

Real cameras far surpass a phone camera. (As consoles far surpass phones) And serious photographers, eh putting down they cam for no phone when they going to an event etc. D phone complements their experience, not replace it.

Saying that, d real gamers, will still buy d ps3 and xbox. d casual gamers, will be fine with mobile.
Is a new market created, it not replacing anything. complementary, additional, not replacing. And like I already point out, pictures matter a lot more to the general consumer than games.

[TriniXaeno]

you made my points for me.

the rise of mobile is exactly like the rise of the smartphone camera.

For all the exact reasons you stated.

your phone is ALWAYS with you.

Why would I need anything else when my smartphone can do it just as well.

my phone records 1080p video (so long video camera)

it can take 8mp pictures (so long lumix)

sure there are better stand alone still and video cameras but guess what....i ALWAYS have my phone on me.

And for that reason...they lose.

Only the hardcore photographer would still be seen lugging the dedicated hardware around.

you dont see girls in thr clubs with an iphone and a compact camera anymore. redundant.

score one for convergence.

gaming is already in the line of fire.

casual games took the hit first. An insanely huge market as is.

every match three game on the planet is better (and more profitable) on mobile.

next stop....hard core games.

halo inching up. fifa inching up

dead space

mass effect

nova and others....watch this space boy messiaah.

[MessiaaH]

Yes wyatt, but what im saying. People care about photos, they don't care about games.
So d same sort of convergence not going to take place.

Is d same way, all d photos you take on your phone, nobody watches them on their phone. They watch them on their pc, ipad etc. When you browsing facebook to view photos of people, yUh want to see it big screen.
Connecting yUh phone to yUh TV is not a general consumer thing. It going to be rel years well before d average joe connecting his phone to his TV to view content.

Also, d casual gaming market is huge, but d hardcore gaming market is significantly bigger by a dramatic margin.
Casual gamers don't care about hardcore games, even if they exist on a phone they not buying that mess.
They going to continue to buy d angry birds etc. D general consumer is not going to sit down behind ah 4" screen to play crisis. it just not going to happen. and they are not going to go through d hassle of hooking it up to a tv either when a ps4 sitting right their.

Your phone always being on you is useful for pictures, it necessary for pictures, and it is required for pictures.
People don't care about games enough to want they phone always on them to be able to play a game.
They are content with waiting till they reach home.
But with a photo, you cant wait till u reach home to take d shot now can u?

Is 2 different scenarios.

And even in a scenario, where every nook and cranny using camera smartphones. Even in such an overwhelming category. Smartphone cameras still did not replace the traditional point and shoot. Point and shoots are still a desired product. (here in cayman, EVERYBODY have a big ass point and shoot they use when it have events, but for everyday activities they have they smartphone......complementary, not replacement. Convergence for convince, but not replacing the needs of a dramatically superior product).

And for a much more desired feature, if smartphone cameras still up to now cant even come close to replacing a real camera. What chance is their for games.......

[TriniXaeno]

Apple says, “the iSight camera on iPhone is the world’s most popular camera.” The top three most popular cameras on Flickr, for instance, are all iPhones – iPhone 4S is the first, iPhone 4 is the second, and iPhone 5 is the third.


Smartphones have supplanted the point and shoot camera.

Hard facts.

By far the greatest volume of photos in the world are now snapped with smartphones.

For obvious reasons. They are ALWAYS on you.

As for the second point, I find it shocking that you would say that people dont care about games.

Who are you and what have you done with the real Messiahh?

On that we firmly disagree.

[MessiaaH]

Of cause d photos on flickr go be iphone, it have social media sharing built in.....

We already establish that point and shoots missing that very useful feature and trying to catchup in that department with cameras running android.

That statistic don't mean smarphone cameras supplant real cameras. it means it complement them.
Plenty people taking smartphone photos now don't mean it replace anything wyatt.

D audience that used to buy high end cameras, still buying it, camera sales eh gone down because iphones selling.
High end cameras still sell. Video cams etc. I personally see d dramatic difference between a smartphone camera and a real camera. My wife actually want a real camera. and I had to convince she to wait until nokia 41mp camera to see how good it is, and if d nokia good enough for photos, then I go buy she a video cam instead. which can do some nice high quality vidoes (not that crap that's called 1080p on a phone).

I always try to tell u, 1 product doing good, don't mean another doing bad. Flickr and FB can be full of pictures taken with smartphones, it don't mean real cameras doing bad. I already said that smartphone camers CREATED a new market, it didn't replace one. You don't see people going to weddings rocking ah iphone, men have dey real camera for that. and if they don't, they getting pictures from people who do. And I can go on and on and on with events you want a real camera for.

Smartphone cameras created a new category in photography. A category that complements real photography, NOT replace it.

And that is d core of my argument. Consoles not going to be REPLACED, they gong to be complemented.
I already make d point with cars. Labougini and Mazda and dem fellers, not making any less money, because kia selling like cake all over d place.

And about gaming.
No, the general consumer, does NOT care about gaming.
Is d reason d Wii outsold all d consoles by such a dramatic margin. Because consumers don't give a shit about hardcore games. Nintendo created a new category if gaming, they found a way to get d casual user interested. d angry birds and plant vs zombie do d same thing.

So as much as I care ah great deal about gaming, fact of d matter is, d iphone / android gamers, don't care the same way as real gamers. And real gamers care too much to settle for a lack luster experience, when they can have a better one.

[TriniXaeno]

Well again I see we've run into the semantics situation.

So lets clear that up one time.

You define supplant as in to absolutely replace the old tech, completely.

When I say supplant what I really mean to say is that the new tech will become status quo.

That is, there will be vastly more smart phone "photographers" than DSLRs photographers.

In any given wedding today, you'll see more people taking pix with their phones than those with a DSLR strapped around their neck.

To apply the analogy to gaming, sure there are still arcades around and arcade machines but consoles have supplanted them. In that, there are vastly more console gamers than arcade gamers today.

This is the road mobile is going to take.

Now that we've got that cleared up...on to the next scary point of consumers not caring about games.

WTF

Are you for real???

Are you also saying that Wii gamers don't qualify???

I know PC gamers elitist...but just clear that up for me one time. In case I'm not understanding you correctly. lol

[MessiaaH]

Ok at the supplant, but what arcades u talking bout? lol, them thing still exist? Lol
I actually think consoles supplant arcades by my definition of supplant, meaning replace, shrink.
Since consoles take over, arcade sales fall faster than blackberry stock lol.

That's what I consider supplant, when one thing takes the place of another to the point where the original thing decrease dramatically. Consoles supplant arcades. Gg no re.

But by my definition, phones ain't even come close to supplanting dslr, nor consoles. (tomorrow mite be a game changer thought, waiting with baited breath to see).

Now that cleared up, in response to yUh gaming question.
No, they don't qualify lolol. Their are certain hardcore experiences on the Wii that qualify.
The Zelda men care...a lot! The smash bros men care. D Mario men care, d metroid men care.
I can guarantee you, the majority of Wii buyers didn't buy it for any of those games.

D Wii sports crowd, them don't care 1% for games, like d hardcore crowd does.
Its just something to have a little fun and pass d time. When they see ah add on TV about a new one sure they'll buy it if it cheap. But do they care? No. If no new Wii come out for 10 years it wouldn't make a difference to them. (Nintendo knows this, is why d Wii u hardware is so much mess, but d hardcore crowd kicking up, so it mite affect them in d long run, but my money is n they selling a ton still, because of the people who don't care.)

Same with mobile gamers, they are content with....angry birds, angry birds star wars, angry birds lego, angry chickens, (how much dam angry birds does it really have? Lol). Are the looking forward to, or want halo? They don't even know what that is. Is d hardcore men know bout that, want that, and looking forward to that. And those men, want d best experience possible. I.e., console/pc.

Survey for yourself, see how much of those general consumers really care bout games, or content with what they have right now. They buy new phones because is d new iphone or d new galaxy. They have no idea what it can do, they just know it new, it was marketed to them. It have more megapixel, and it have quad and more memory. They know on a spec sheet it have more thing , what that actually means? They have no clue. Take megapixels for instance, for years consumers think more megapixels = better camera. Which couldn't be further from the truth. And it still so even today. Galaxy have 8 cores and wp have 2? D galaxy undoubtly faster , which also couldn't be further from the truth. I don't mean to come across mean, but d general consumers usually have no clue about these things, and the smart people who realize consumers like that, is d ones making all d money. Marketing. is all in the human psychology.

Console gamers, they care, so they say screw you MS, no preorders for alyuh. MS reverse course, preorder records were broken. New iphone release with 1 small insignificant  change. Still fly off store shelves.

[MessiaaH]

And so they rise.....


​
​GG no Re. Apple and Samsung, gone pee and go in alyuh bed. Big Daddy is here. Nokia Wins, Flawless Victory, Fatality! King Of Smartphone Photography.

[TriniXaeno]

boom!

Dazwhawetalkinbout.



How far we have come

gg @ dedicated point and shoot cameras.



Soon consoles, laptops and PCs will be added to that convergence trend.

(*edit* I see they already have laptops included in the convergence).

At the price at a modern smartphone, they should be. I just realized that a top tier device like a Galaxy Note 2 or a S4 costs more than a decent camera, console or laptop. Yet, we see tons of people changing them out every year like drawers.

Must be a lucrative market indeed, never-mind the software. No wonder the industry leaders chasing after the mobile prize with such vigour. No wonder apple's (and now Samsung's) pockets so deep.

I still lil shocked that you'd dismiss the Wii crowd as "valid" gamers. Too many epic games on that platform to treat them with such scorn.

Mario (kart, smash, etc..), metroid, zelda, wow....I don't even know how to respond.

Sure the Wii Sports mightn't be the hardest of core but I see it as a gateway drug. Opening up the experience of games to a new crowd. Sure they may come for the Wii Sports but they'll stay for the other epic 1st party titles.

Wii Sports   81.64 million
Mario Kart Wii   34.01 million
Wii Sports Resort   31.54 million
Wii Play   28.02 million
New Super Mario Bros. Wii   27.61 million

These are the sales figures.....Mario Kart and Super Mario Bros have moved very respectable units.

I dunno boy Messiaah, it kinda ruff to leave out the Wii crowd from being "true gamers". Personally my son and I have had way too much fun and hard core sessions on that platform to treat it with such scant courtesy.

Think we will have to remain in disagreement on this point.

[Arcmanov]

King Of Smartphone Photography.

At least they get to be 'king' of something?

*free shrugs*





Samsung Galaxy Note 2 | Omega v16 | SwiftKey | Tapatalk 4 Beta

[TriniXaeno]

don't hate boy Arc.

Any strides they make will just force the Android camp to step up their game.

Everybody will benefit. Rest assured.

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt, @ the wii crowd. I never say anything bout not being "true gamers" eh.
The angry birds crowds is gamers just the same. whether they care or not is another question.

And d titles u list, I also listed not so? I said d people buying those titles are the ones that care. Those are the true Nintendo fan. The people who really care about gaming. And I can tell you, a very small percentage, if any atal, of wii sports gamers, bought Nintendo other first party titles. All them sales there, come from d same men who has been supporting Nintendo for years.

Any extra sales they get from casual crowd, come from men who buy it cuase they have a wii, and they see ah new game so get it, not because they care. because it's there.

Their are fans waiting for the new Zelda with baited breath, d new smash etc. Those men care. So I not discounting wii gamers. But the wii console is d perfect console to illustrate my point, because the wii has the most casual gamers.

Not 1 person I know, not 1! casual gamer who has played wii sports and like it, even know what Metroid is. Or smash.
They just know wii sports and that's it, it didn't cause them to pickup another title at all.

So no disrespect to the "true gamers" on the wii platform. But I'm telling you, the casual gaming audience, don't give 2 hoots. Like I said, do your own survey. See how much angry birds gamers u can find, that got into gaming because of games like Angry Birds and Plant Vs Zombies, see how much of them you can find, that plays anything else. Or cares about gaming evolution or development, or power, or gpu. Or how much more improved d new angry birds is, etc etc etc. Go head, ask around.

And @ Arc.

I'll respond with this image:

http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-12.jpg

The dudes in white is nokia / ms, d feller on the right in blue is Samsung, d one on the left is Apple.

[TriniXaeno]

nah man Messiaah, let's not argue this point over the Wii....cause I already see we not going to come to terms on it.

I posted enough sales figures there to prove that a healthy number of great wii games were sold (60 million) and that is sufficient for me to consider the Wii a platform that served as a gateway for a fair number of casual gamers to get inducted into what we may consider "real gaming".

Likewise with Plants vs Zombies and Angry Birds.

They will start off on those decidedly "casual" experiences....but in time....gamers familiar with these franchises will find them on more meatier fare.

Take for example,



Battlefield 3 esque Plants vs Zombies



and Bad Piggies (cross over from Angry Birds)



As the platform's become more and more capable, a portion of "casual gamers" will transition.

They don't need to "care"....they just need to see familiar territory and click "buy".

Thanks to social media, peer pressure is exponential and global.

But MORE to the point...casual gamers are still gamers. Be it Wii, Phone, Tablet, whatever....

And they ain't exactly a small insignificant bunch either.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2013/01/02/2012s-massive-casual-gaming-footprint-is-the-hardcore-audience-disappearing/

(as a side note, this quote from the article was very interesting....and it is dated, I am sure the situation is even more drastic nowadays with all the epic tablets on the market)

84% of tablet owners spend most of their time playing games on it. This was before the Nexus 7, before the Kindle Fire HD, and before the touch-centric Windows 8.

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt I think you getting caught up with semantics this time lol.

The entire point I made was, they don't care. You can not care and still buy the game, as you so rightfully pointed out above. I not saying casual don't buy games, of corse they do, Nintendo knows this, is why d wii u specs is crap lol. men going to buy it still. But what I'm saying is, people don't care lolol.

Is like you said....they don't need to care to click buy. and that's d very point I making, the majority of wii buyers and galaxy buyers, and iphone buyers, don't care. The minute vocal minority is d ones that do.

And that PVZ Warfare thing is a first attempt to transition a casual game into something more hardcore, and my prediction of that is, it going to fail HARD! lol. watch and see. Sales for that going to be abysmal, they mite sell ah few initially, cause d same gamers who don't care, go click buy just cause they see d brand name, but when they play it and realize what it is, that getting put down.

But again, my point is, they don't care. Are they gamers? of course, do they care? hell no. (Nintendo Knows this, which is why the gamers who care, are pissed off at Nintendo, they catering to the audience that will buy their products regardless, is d reason I don't own a wii u yet. Only 1 title I care enough about to swallow the lack luster production that is the wii u, Zelda. Screw Nintendo till then. )

[TriniXaeno]

I'm confused then.

What is your point when saying that they don't care?

How is that impacting their value as gamers and a demographic? Especially given the strong numbers they are posting.

[MessiaaH]

My point is, how advance a game is, is not going to affect their buying decision in any way, as to what's the next phone they buying. So whether the future phones can run crisis or not, does not matter to the general consumer, they don't care about that. Once it rocking angry birds, or any variation of an easy to pick up, simple to play game. They are happy.

So the hard core mobile gaming experience that companies trying to push, will never become mainstreamed where men replace they consoles with it. Because the gamers who will infact think to do something like that, is gamers who care a lot more about games than the general consumer, and those gamers not settling for a lack luster experience. So no replacement of a console going to happen.

But how good the camera is, will affect their decision, because the general consumer cares more for good pictures, than they do for good games. And even though they care more for photos, cannon and them men still selling a shit-ton of product.

Also, wanted to let u know something on an earlier comment you make. Over here in cayman. I does be d only noob rocking a smart phone recording anything, honestly, every body else have real cameras. Everybody. Went to a Christmas play that my son was in for instance. I like 4 rows back, and them up on a big stage with rel lights, I was ashamed of my Lumia 920, arguably the best smart phone camera in the world. Everybody else with real cameras getting clear crisp footage. Dude I had to end up sniping content from other people lol. Ah feel SHAME! lolol. So when it comes to important memories you want to capture, real cameras destroy. It's d reason d building was full of them.

If yUh in a club having a good time, of course nobody going their with a real camera. So of course there will be a dramatically large number of smart phone pictures out there, because people does be taking picture of theyself in a mirror in d toilet if d opportunity presents itself lol. But saying that, people do care a lot more about photos, to the point that innovation in smartphone photography will influence buying decision.

I still don't see people giving up their real cameras for mobile phones anytime soon, but based on the quality of the pictures nokia release, im starting to question that position.

[TriniXaeno]

Well you used a very poor example. A Christmas play is one of the definite use cases for a proper digital camera and not a smartphone.

Reason's being, you'll typically need a good zoom and decent low light performance. None of which the typical smartphone can handle well.

99% of the time though, you won't be at a Christmas play and hence, the smartphone wins on volume of pictures captured worldwide.

Conversely, I have been to many sporting events (in bright sunlight) where people have paid compliments to the pictures taken by my Galaxy Note 2. This after I resized them to 1600x resolution and uploaded to facebook. 8mp is already overkill for simple web use.

So I think we have firmly established the points.

1) A smartphone has replaced the camera for "casual" and everyday impromptu photos due to their ubiquity. These make up the volume of the world's photos as seen on facebook, flikr, etc...

2) A dedicated camera still has its uses where top performance is required (Christmas Plays, Weddings, etc...)

But as we are seeing, the development of the camera on these mobile devices is progressing very aggressively. I expect the gap to close quickly and the point of diminishing returns to be reached sooner rather than later.

More importantly though, on your point of casual market not being interested in a mobile phones gaming capability.

I still find it HARD to believe that is your position. If you read the stats posted above in those articles, gaming is a primary activity on these devices for the average consumer.

Gaming capability will drive sales. No doubt about it. The focus the industry has on increasing the horsepower particularly in the GPU department shows that they are fully aware of this fact.

How you're not convinced is beyond me.

[MessiaaH]

Saying plenty people with mobile phones play easy to pickup casual mobile games, is like saying plenty people make phone calls. Is a natural function of the phone, of course d stats go be high, that don't mean casual users care bout d advancement of games to d point it influences sales.

the casual mobile user don't care one bit about being able to run crisis on they phone, they don't even know what crisis is.

The focus d industry placing on mobile gaming advancement has nothing to do with d casual user, and if it does, then they as stupid as the PlayStation move and vita. And explains why Nintendo cut they skin. Nintendo understands casual, NVIDIA and Sony don't. MS kind of gets it, which is why Kinect is a hit. See what happen when they try to force Kinect to hardcore? Fail. So they stopped perusing that avenue and stuck to casual Kinect experiences.  Casual gamers don't care bout hardcore experiences.

[MessiaaH]

And ita good we cleared up the camera points, I raised it to show the dame thing applies to mobile gaming.
for the everyday gaming needs, mobile will fill that.
but when time for proper hard-core experiences, consoles.

all will sell like hops.
Cameras, consoles and Smartphones.
and as far as smartphone camera tech, it took the competition about five years to catch up to Nokia, don't expect them to catch the 1020 anytime soon. When I get 1020 in hand will see if it can serve for adequate point and shoot replacement. Mite do for pics, I doubt for vids.