Windows Phone 7

[phoenix31tt]

ok 2 things on those articles...

1. its weird that article one didnt site any of its european carriers, cuz from what i've seen that is not the case as european carriers have been groveling for the Lumia 900 since its US launch...

2. your second article came from a SUPPORT call... i.e. the people that usually dont know what they are talking about. From all indications current handsets will be upgraded to the new OS, or at least the features that they support... for instance all devices now run 800x480 res.. the new update will allow for 1280x720 res.. obviously it wont make sense to push that part of the update to current devices right... so current devices will get the features the hardware supports to keep a smooth experience..

all in all though, jeez those are some ridiculous unsubstantiated articles to be posting the day of the windows phone summit lol.. at least wait till the summit done to see what is true before posting speculations

[MessiaaH]

Dude, do ah lil research before yuh post.

All rumors point towards MS releasing a WP7.8 update if u will, which has most of d features of WP8 except d features that not supported by d old hardware as phoenix mention. So current handset users have nothing to worry bout, man who buy WP at launch will be rocking out wp8 features. But again, WP8 summit is in a couple hrs. Hopefully all shall be revealed.

Microsoft Surface wtapwn d tablet market, brilliant hardware, excellent design.
Here's to hoping WP8 does the same.

Also, @ article 1, the Lumia 900 outsold the Iphone 4s in online sales last month. It will take time to grow, just as android has, but i dont know of any carrier that feel d way that article describe, sounds like ah blind fanboy trying to get attention if u ask me lol.

All new products take time to grow, xbox 1 cetch it ass, but MS being MS, they will bury money in it until it's a success, and now xbox 360 is d #1 selling console in d world.

MS does think longterm, they doh worry up they head about short term, them watching 5-10 years down d road. Not next year. They is not d most powerful software company in d world by guess. Nor did they have d gaming market under lock by guess. Nor is their acquisition of skype, yammer, aol by guess. Nor is any of their service redesign and philosophy of integration by guess, nor is their Surface Tablet by guess, men have ah long term strat, and all d pieces on d chessboard starting to line up for checkmate.

[TriniXaeno]

they acquired yammer??

[MessiaaH]

They bought yammer for 1 billion dollors, and 2 days later they bought out all AOL patents for 1 billion dollors.

MS not playing.

[Spazosaurus]

My honest, non-sarcastic opinion wrt no 'full' wp8 for 2012 handsets:

Even if, as you say, there is an update for these current flagship devices to get most of whatever WP8 omph is coming, I would still feel a bit left out in the cold when new handsets with wp8 come out natively and a device I bought just a handful of months ago is far behind the curve.

I would have thought, for such a 'forward thinking' (as you put it) company that cares about the customer, they would have foreseen that in the next 5 months, their new os would be out that runs best with "x" specification and as such, in preparation for the new OS, make sure that phones sold such a short time prior to a major OS upgrade is capable of running it.

Say what you will, but this is clearly a fragmented approach, which I thought they would have avoided at all costs given all the Android bashing of same.

Also, can you share a source indicating where wp7 outsold iphone?

[MessiaaH]

I will find d source but d wp8 event about ot start ill be busy watching that .

Also, Phoenix bout a Titan 2 for 350$ :S and men getin HTC Titans for 300$ at that price u cant compalin.

So whoever buy phones now, getin it at DOG price, is not like they paying for ah GS3 going for 700$

So to buy a phone now that goign to have most of d features of wp8 for 300$ i know men buying that with ah smile on they face.

But anyways, it about to start so we go see wah really going on.

http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit


Source link for d sales:
http://wmpoweruser.com/compete-com-in-april-nokia-lumia-900-sold-online-at-the-same-rate-as-the-iphone-4s/

Also, Android is d most fragmented, dirty, all over d place platform ever.
Yes wp8 may introduce fragmentation, but 2 skews? u really going to lump that up with d fragmented mess that is android? Dude....

[Spazosaurus]

Well to your last point, i've never seen a big problem with the way Android is fragmented. I see no problem with unique spins on the same os by disparate parties. I prefer to look at it as differentiation which is a good thing. Of course, lower end devices wont be able to run everything the big boys do but this is something thats not peculiar to any one platform. It is a necessary evil anywhere you look. Opinions vary wildly depending on who you ask, of course.

What I find hilarious (or sad, depending on how you look at it) is that the very same parties who were so anti fragmentation just a short time ago, wanting to have absolutely nothing to do with the idea of fragmentation is now apparently off in a corner, eating their words now that the fragmentation devil is now creeping up into their tents.

I hope they honey coated those words.


Seeing as current WP7 flagships are using tech from 2 yr old Android devices, it would be interesting to see what prices WP8 phones would sell for when they come out with hardware thats closer in pedigree to current Android handsets.

[phoenix31tt]

And see I don't think awesome really understands what fragmentation is... With android, its not that the old devices couldn't support new features, they just won't able to naturally update..

so they would not even get a smidgin of an update...
Ur point makes no sense, why would I build hardware with HD screens when the os doesn't support it?... My titan will get all the updates it can support, simple... Fragmention would be my hardware being able to support it but I just can't run it...

I don't see the issue and I think this is a brilliant move instead of just shafting old hardware all together... I think you're looking for a reason right now, its clear

Its also clear you have no idea what we mean by fragmentation lol, we don't mean differentiation between manufacturers, we mean android 2.1 devices not being naturally updatable to 2.2 etc, NONE of the features

[TriniXaeno]

nah man, the wp7 fragmentation can not hold a candle to android. lol

Like you self said awesome, that is both a good and a bad thing at the same time.

On the plus side, you get wildy varying android experiences across a wide gamut of devices at vastly different price points.

and on the negative side, you get wildy varying android experiences across a wide gamut of devices at vastly different price points.

(see what I did there? lol)

As a side note, had a chance to play with an old gingerbread droid phone this week. Some no name brand from china. About the size of a blackberry curve. Was surprised by how functional it was. Didn't experience any crashes during my time with it.

[phoenix31tt]

I don't mind ge differences based on manufacturer that is cool, is the fact that I can't even get incremental updates... Unless I into custom roms and unlocking and all that... THAT is ridiculous fragmentation, you guys might not experience it because u dig up in the devices, but he majority of users don't

[TriniXaeno]

Just read your post Phoenix....lets put some definition around what we mean by fragmentation to avoid miss-communication

My view on fragmentation: Vast number of current SKUs with wildy varying capabilities. Example: The PC platform, Android phones

My view on non-fragmented: Low number of current SKUs with very similar capabilities. Example, IOS platform (ipad, iphone, ipod), Mac, WP7

Got a different take on that?

[MessiaaH]

Another issue with fragmentation is different devices gives completely different expereinces.

If i use a samsung phone runing touchwiz, it coudl run like complete shit. vs htc sense, vs stock androive, vs wahever else.
So much different possibilites, and to boot low end android devices run like utter shit.

Any Windows Phone u pick up, will run d same.
U get d same awesome performance from d lowest Lumia 610 to d highest Lumia 900.

They all run d OS d exact same, same UI, same os everything.

Hand anybody a windows phone, they will know how to use it.

Android? Thats another story all together.

[phoenix31tt]

Yes wyatt.. I do, all windows pcs can get updated no? But if your device doesn't support usb3 it won't get the usb3 drivers... That's not fragmentation...

but what if ms tells you u can't get windows updates and even if your device supports USB3 u can't get the drivers... THAT is the fragmentation I'm referring to 

[MessiaaH]

^^ Waye, point!, GG! wyatt awesome doh even bother to respond, d man end d argument right there lol.

Unfortunately i cant view d conference cause this dotish Jamaican airport wifi rel suck, every minute d thing buffering, so i waiting till conference done to watch it from d recorded ver.

[TriniXaeno]

I won't go so far.

Its like the additional software that comes with your HP PC, vs your Dell,  Lenova or a Toshiba.

They all will be running Windows (Vista, XP, 7, 8, etc...) at the core and would be similar enough for any Windows user to navigate.

Likewise for Android.

Sure, it will have customizations, but at the core, its running Android. Will be similar enough.

[TriniXaeno]

@ phoenix, I won't call that fragmentation though....that's more like abandonment.

[TriniXaeno]

and alyuh replying so fast I could barely respond to one before two more posts jump in the mix, lol

fragmenting my responses! lol

[phoenix31tt]

again read what i say

android devices on 2.1 cant natively be updated to 2.2, and 2.2 cant be updated to 2.3 etc etc..

this has nothing to do with manufacturers and different sku's and different customizations... this is the BASE os... so if i bought a 2.1 device.. im not getting ANY updates period... i HAVE to buy a 2.2 device...

when i buy windows vista... i get SP1 on the same hardware... i get updates that are relevant to my hardware as well.. if i dont have the hardware to support an update.. i dont get it...

this is what wp8 is doing.. and this is what android completely fails at... until ics/4.0.. which is supposed to have native updates... but guess what... most devices on 2.3.4 not getting any updates to ics... any at all.. so thats a few million users well stuck on yay old software

btw... i was replying from my phone on edge.. and i replying faster than you.. lol guess thats windows phones ftw...

and ok.. well if you want to name it abandonment fine... but.. all the same.. it sucks doesnt it?

[Spazosaurus]

Again the definition of fragmentation varies depending on who you ask.

I know Phoenix would not have been up to the times with the reasons why some handsets were not updated so i'll take the opportunity to throw some light on it for him.

With respect to Android devices, unless it is directly supported by Google (aka nexus line of phones), it is the carrier's responsibility to push updates to phones. Its not a matter of updates not being available for the phone, rather the sheer volume of handsets that the updates have to target. This is why it often takes so long for end users to see updates for their phones.

Microsoft handles updates themselves so undoubtedly, pushing updates to their handsets would be significantly more efficient than how it is done on Android. I'll give you that. I expect el goog to do some work on this and ensure a smoother update process in due time.

As far as your comment about phones not being upgradable from one OS to another could not be more wrong. Almost all phones would definitely get an upgrade to at least one new OS version eg Froyo to Gingerbread as an OTA update. As a matter of fact, some phones that came out with Froyo, aka the Desire HD have gotten GB updates and I think are slated to get ICS and all.

However, as far as future proofing devices. If you think that making handsets capable of supporting features that will be available in a new OS due to be released less than 6 months in the future is a point that 'makes no sense', then I must insist that is a very short sighted approach to take.

[phoenix31tt]

awesome.. i really dont care bout the reason.. the fact is.. that is what it is... i not saying google responsible, or samsung, or moto... the point is that is what it is today...

reasons as to why really dont matter... at least 90% of windows phone are 7.5, whats the % of android phones on ics? or even gb?

and clearly you dont seem to understand how manufacturing works... device release today werent planned today.. they have been in development for sometime, based on the roadmap/os that was available at the time...

so the lumia 900 take a year to design.. last year they wouldnt design hardware for software that is releasing 18 months later... think about it...

you think the SIII designed with hardware that going to provide some new amazing feature that jelly bean gonna bring??