Windows 8

[MessiaaH]

Wyatt, what phoenix say is what i been saying all along, d man even quote some of my previosu statments. Why u feel i post all those links, and said that laptops cannot run some of them things. You seem to be just glacing over every point i make and sticking to d claim that mobile taking over. Everything phoenix said i've said already, is d same thing i've been saying all along. When i say PCs going to be aroudn for decades, u think i mean a rectangle form factor? I belive in technological invoation, and i said d PCs will invovate with it. Did i not mention men like me go be swaping out parts in they holo deck ?

I believe in hardcore technology, mobile growing wont replace it, it will compliment it. Your mobile devices will work in tandum with them, not replace it.

Try to read and understnad what men saying instead of juss spouting statments bout PC dead.

Phoenix just eloborated on everything i was already saying. PCs will be around for ages, they will become more and more advanced, just like mobile advacing with d advent of the first iphone, is d same way PC inovation will keep going.

But it funny how i say phoenix saying exactly what i say, and u making d same claim lololol.

From everything you say, my takeaway from your posts is that, Mobile going to take over everything, and there will be no place for the PC. everything going to be some portable hand held device. That's my takeway from what u say. and that is what i fundamentally disagree with. It not going to be all about mobile and nothing else.

So are you saying i misunderstood everything you've been saying so far?

[TriniXaeno]

Exactly.

If you're saying the same thing as phoenix then we are once again in perfect agreement.

That is precisely what I have been trying to say.

The man is gifted with words.

Semantics can make English troublesome but it is always great when with a little persistence we can understand each other.

[Arcmanov]

Search the Windows Store for FilmOn.  Install it, and look for a channel called 'GINX'.

Thank me later. 

[MessiaaH]

Nice, just did this in a couple seconds from my couch, nice find dude.

[Spazosaurus]

https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9235059/Windows_8_s_uptake_falls_behind_Vista_s_pace?taxonomyId=125&pageNumber=1

Ouch. Can't say i'm surprised. MS took a big gamble on metro on the desktop. Just a matter of time before they reap the rewards of their arrogance.

[Arcmanov]

To quote a good ol Trini saying: 'it good'

Here's another: 'who doh hear, does feel'





SwiftKeyed from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with Tapatalk 2

[TriniXaeno]

All kicks aside, I like Windows 8 + Classic Shell

And the price can't be beat. US$40 ftw

[Preston786]

Holy sh!t the uptake worse than vista?! ...

Sigh the OS itself is great but they really need a built in function to disable "Modern UI" an go straight to the desktop for non touch based PC's

Sent via my HTC Raider™4G

[MessiaaH]

I woudlnt read much into that article, a few things to consider:

1. The jump from xp to vista happen in a time when xp was kinda old and ppl wanted change, so vista uptake could be better at the start becuase ppl didnt realise vista was shit right away.

2. The dramatic uptake of windows 7 happen becuase vista was so much shit ppl just wanted to run from it with a 10 foot pole, and windows 7 seem to be the answer.

3. The slower uptake of windows 8 may not be becuase anything wrong with d adoption rate of metro, but becuase of the strong loyaltee windows 7 garnered and ppl mite not be too ready to leave windows 7 remembering what happened with vista.

4. Hardware rel rare for windows 8 right now, we order 2 dell xps 12s like 3 weeks now, and dell told us we only getting it at the end of janurary. So quite frankly it just dont have stock.

All things considered, i think its too soon to say "it good" or "i told u so" etc.

Give it time for stock to come into fruition, and everything to get flushed out, and then we go see how windows 8 performs. Surface pro not even going on sale till mid feb, and that's d one i waiting on.

Give d products time to get out there and a chance to be sold.

Then we go see what is what.

[Spazosaurus]

We all know that PC hardware that runs Windows 7 is more than capable of running 8. All they do is slap a "windows 8  Certified" sticker on available hardware and move on with their lives. Hardware availability is not the issue.

Problem is that Windows 7 is SO good that there is no reason whatsoever for 7 users to "upgrade" to Windows 8, especially if metro is going to be forced upon them and their PC runs just fine as it is. In all fairness, even without metro windows 8 will still struggle but Metro is the ball and chain that will ENSURE that is remains weak.

Like Arc rightfully said, MS chose to flat out ignore the outcry from PC users to have the ability to switch off metro completely. For this, they will pay the ultimate price.


Also, classic example why you shouldnt trust MS' internal fud generators. They would have you believe that copies are flying through the door when they clearly are not.

[MessiaaH]

Yes windows 7 hardware is more than capable of running windows 8. But this time around it's not a simple OS change we talking bout.

From xp to vista to windows 7, pc hardware landscape was exactly d same and wasnt changing anytime soon.

This time around windows 8 is not just about software, but about a hardware change as well.

I.E. MS Surface , Dell XPS 12, Asus Taichi, etc etc etc etc etc.....

PPl waiting on the windows 8 designed hardware, not the "recertified for windows 8 ones" but d ones that designed to take advantage of windows 8, touch screen devices etc. It can be said the MS Surface Pro is d only one designed from scratch for windows 8, and the other oems just modified their existing designed. but the hardware difference is significant enough to warrant waiting on it.

Also, most ppl out there, just buy new hardware, ppl rarely buy an OS and upgrade it..... Only companies do mass upgrades, and the time-frame for windows 8 upgrade no where near for a company level.

Sales for windows 8 will come wiht sales for hardware, Thats what happened with Windows 7, windows 7 didnt sell so much becuase ppl bought the OS seperate and upgrade they vista pc, it sold becuase ppl went in d store and buy new laptops/machines running windows 7, even doh it was just slightly better hardware.

All in all, hardware drives OS sales, and if d hardware not available to be bought at the moment, it is way to early to play d "i told u so" game.

Next year when companies ready to do they hardware refresh, and men ready to spend money, u honestly going to recommend they buy windows 7 laptop hardware? or mass buy some dell xps 12s? And disable metro if u have to.

When it came to vista, machines was being sold with vista onboard, and ppl had to demand a downgrade disc back to xp. Windows 7 changed that, and i dont think anybody going to buy a windows 8 pc in the enterprise and want a downgrade disc to windows 7, they would just disable metro.

Ah well, point is, it way to early to tell. When Windows 8 Specific hardware (xps, taichi, surface pro) is available for sale. We go see what happens. I know alot of ppl on island waiting on the surface pro, and dell, and specifically not going windows 8 until they available.

[Spazosaurus]

You know about a disable switch for metro that the rest of dont know about? Dont tell me about hacks to try to disable it eh, because it is not a viable solution for the enterprise.

Sure, there is going to be the hardware made for a touch interface like metro, your ultrabooks and such. So sure, it will sell there, no contest, but what percentage of the market is really going to buy an ultrabook instead of a more powerful laptop or desktop? Not that many im sure.

Ok so what about new contemporary laptops and desktop pc's? glad you asked

.....don't forget that most OEM's, especially due to public outcry are going to give consumers the option to have their new PC come with Windows 7, just like what happened with Vista and XP...


Now on to the millions of machines currently in the wild internets that run Windows 7...

To make matters even worse, win 8 is the first OS in a while that doesnt require new hardware to run. You said, and I quote: "most ppl out there, just buy new hardware, ppl rarely buy an OS and upgrade it"...

Maybe in a parallel universe that is the case but certainly not this one. Have you paid attention to how MS is marketing windows 8? On Microsoft Windows home page there is a big ass ad in yellow for the upgrade (not full version) to win 8, touting how easy it is to do for windows 7 users.

Another thing. Look at the price. Windows 7 UPGRADE still goes for $100us while Windows 8 upgrade is a paltry $40 by comparison...

So to summarise;

1) The cost of upgrading to Windows 8 is lower than any previous OS in recent times, no hardware to change and still pull stones to get people to buy into it.

2) Dont underestimate the public's scorn of metro on the desktop. As long as Windows 7 is available, people are going to select it as their OS of choice on their new PC.

3) Businesses eh want nothing with Windows 8.

4) Touch devices (ultrabooks, all in one touchscreen PC's) are MS's only hope to move Win 8 in decent volume.

[Spazosaurus]

And in more bad news, the arrogance train seems to be bowling along full steam ahead with word that the next refresh of Windows 8/9 codenamed Windows Blue slated for a Summer 2013 release will make metro a more integral part of the os.

Is it REALLY SO FCUKING HARD to put a metro off/on switch in the damn os? FFS!

Sad, sad times ahead.

[MessiaaH]

Ok ill responde in parts.

First part, a windows 8 hybrid is some of the most powerful hardware you can buy. You cant do much better than a fully tricked out Dell XPS 12 for enterprise use. Is not only more than enouhg, it's overkill. And more and more mobile becoming prominent, I've ordered more laptops for clients in the past year than desktops....

2. I know oems offered a downgrade from vista to xp, but the reasons for that are totally differnet, Vista ran like shit, resource intensive, it crashed all the time, shit just didnt work. That's not the case with windows 8, Windows 8 is more effient, faster, and better in every way than windows 7, the only dislike is d startscreen? That is not enough by a longshot to deter business from windows 8. I had reason to downgrade users in enterprise from Vista to Xp, i have no reason atal to do the same with windows 8.

3. You say in a parallel universe hardware may drive software sales but not this one. But in my "parallel" universe, I've not bought a single Windows 7 upgrade license for any of the many clients i currently service. Every single Windows 7 install has been a new PC. Doesnt matter what MS have on they ads, i going by real-world figures i see for myself. Of corse they go advertise how easy it is to upgrade, cuase they trying to get ppl to upgrade. But they usually dont....Enthusists like me and you do it all the time, but definately not the average joe on, and Corporate upgrades are mass upgrades that happen late in the life cycle of an OS. (If you even doing the upgrade, most ppl flush out the old hardware, and get new stuff like i mentioned happen with all our clients in the past year).

3. The cost of windows 8 upgrade being low and pullstones to buy is irrelevant based on the fact that sales come from hardware, not individual software purchases.

4. "Business eh want nothing with Windows 8" You base this on what exactly?

And finally 5. Touch devices are the whole reason ms built Windows 8 the way it did, so obviosuly it's sucess will directly relate to the sales and innovation of touch devices. Which is where d future going anyways.

In conclusion:

I relate to anybody who dislike metro wanting an offswitch, and how easy it would be for MS to implement (i had recent frustration with windows 8 and gfwl) So microsoft is not beyond reproach. But metro alone is not a valid enough reason to avoid windows 8, and the "public" scorn of windows 8 is just tech media venting. Every person who has seen my metro wants it. D only ppl who "scorn" it is ppl looking for headlines, and a few pundits on gatt. D everyday joe out there who seen me use it, and see what it can do, is looking forward to it.  Just waiting on hardware. It coudl very well turn out, that when ppl get it in they hand they hate it. But again, way too early to tell. Since everyone who would consider upgrading their pc, will be buying a new pc with windows 8 on it already. I dont know a single person who has "upgraded" their OS save a gamer.

Also, Microsoft is in a unique position to do whatever d hell they want, and nobody could stop dem. It's unfortunate, but thats d nature of things. I fully suspect that come Windows 9, the desktop will play a less part, and Metro a bigger part, and eventually MS aim is to phase out desktop all together, and have a Metro only world. But they monopoly so huge, what can u do? Microsoft have to frig up a good 5 years straigth, to have apple mac -os take over the industry.

They made ME, still held 1st place, they made Vista, still held first place. If windows 8 is another vista, only time will tell.
But if it does turn out to be another vista, Windows 9 is sure as hell going to be the new Windows 7.

But again, my point in all of this is, it is way too early to tell. We have to wait until at least mid 2013 before we can say "ha ha, boo hoo, microsoft u dummy, told u so" Until such time, any definate claims towards the success or failure of Windows 8 is just being moronic. Im not saying windows 8 is going to be a definate sucess. but im saying its no me or vista. Those platforms had MAJOR issues. All windows 8 do wrong in ppl eyes is give u a new startscreen u doh have to use? *Yawn* talk about over-reacting.

Lets wait and see....

[TriniXaeno]

They need ubiquity for metro for their mobile strat to work.

Mobile is where the action is.

As you rightfully said......traditional users will scorn it and will stick to Windows 7 (which is more expensive and will make more $$ for Microsoft, so no love lost there)

The new generation of users, all accustomed to touch screen, will gravitate to devices that have this feature native. Apple has been leading the pack there and Microsoft wants / needs metro to be a viable option.

They know mobile is the growing segment. This is a long term strat.

Windows 7 is definitely good enough for the old school gamers and corporate for a while yet.

A lot of big corporate offices still on Windows XP. lol. So the business market ain't exactly known for adopting cutting edge.

Thankfully, as mentioned before, there are beautifully simple options to disable metro.

Classic Shell is so easy to install and makes Windows 8 feel like that old BMX bicycle you loved to ride as a kid.

Free and open source. Doesn't get any better.

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

[Spazosaurus]

I agree that Windows 8 is not horrible. It does have a few improvements that I like, which is why I still tolerate it on both my home and work pc's.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your points 1-5, but just to touch on a couple points I think are more important.

1) Poor user interface (based on indiviudal user's opinion) is enough of a reason to bypass the OS as a whole. Windows 8 is certainly not slow or buggy BUT the mass opinion or perception that metro is a thing to be avoided is just as bad as if the OS was slow or buggy.

2) Enterprises have just recently done upgrades of their shops to Windows 7. For powerusers, things like improved task manager and file copy dialogs are great but in terms of an Enterprise setting, win8 just does not bring enough 'newness' to the table to justify the cost and hassle of doing an upgrade. Not to mention the massive re-training and user re familiarization that will have to take place before users become productive in a Win8 environment...IT admins are going to avoid going down that road for as long as possible.  I for one fall into that category. Even if they dont, business execs are gonna balk @ all the lost productivity and ask for upgrade hold off.

3) As for consumer initiated upgrades of existing machines, if you look carefully, MS is taking a very very different to Windows 7 upgrade.  Their approach to win8 is quite similar to apple in this respect. The upgrade is pretty much on the same price point as a modern OS-X update and the primary delivery method is download which is geared towards making it as easy as possible for the average win7 user.

By contrast to upgrade from Vista to 7, you had to go out, buy a disc, stick it in and prepare to enter the matrix and upload the knowledge u need to your brain do your upgrade. Windows 8 is 1) click buy 2) download 3)install 4) enjoy your new os kthxbye.

The strategy has shifted significantly so you need to forget what you accustom seeing.


All i'm saying is that the odds of Windows 8's success (on the desktop and laptop) is already narrow given that Windows 7 is still so damn capable. It certainly hurts things now that metro is all up in the dance.

@ Wyatt, like I said, tablet and other touchscreen devices is a glimmer of hope for them, provided that people take up the platform of course. Time, indeed will tell.

[Spazosaurus]

Ok, that classic shell on Win8 is THE healing. 90% of the feeling of Win7 now.

Good god Microsoft. THIS is what allyuh didnt want to give people? A simple 9mb extra in windows 8 (classic shell is 9mb) to give people back they start bar and suppress metro?

Nah man allyuh want licks.

Yeah yeah this go work. And it free free FREE too. Love it.

NOW ah could use Windows 8. Thanks open source community!!

[TriniXaeno]

lol, like a breath of fresh air.

You're most welcome.

[Arcmanov]

*Steups*

...and this is all I ask.

Just give power users the choice to turn off the 'Modern UI', and there's your killer-OS.

Why Microsoft just flat-out REFUSES listen to the tech community on this is baffling to me.
It's this same community that will help sell it.

As we've seen with Start8 and Classic Shell, it's not that hard.  One small update, and we golden.
Give users the choice to install it or not even.

...but to just shit on everybody and say 'nah...hold a metro in allyuh collective mc' is really arrogant and foolhardy at best...but they have majority market share so the best we could do is take dat and cool it.

I will still give em props for a great underlying OS though, but the UI will still be a sore point for many.

'...who doh hear, does feel.'




SwiftKeyed from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 with Tapatalk 2

[Spazosaurus]

Pure, unadulterated arrogance is what it is. They feel they too big to listen.

MS getting like apple slowly but surely. I can see it coming a mile away.