James Cameron's Avatar

[wesleigh]

aside from the story of the North American Indians (aka pocahontas) what were the racist undertones exactly? I normallyp ick up on these things, did not see them here though.

the usual...the white man have to save the day as usual, this time similar to 10000bc kinda level - u mean to say he there three months and he unite basically the whole planet. so what they couldnt come together for themselves? of course not, they had to wait on the white protagonist to come, quick study their culture and of course messiah them to victory.

all of the main aliens depicted were non white actors btw

jus some food for thought

[Q]

Oh BULLSHIT. I'm fed up with this "racist undertone" nonsense. He was verse in military tactics and he knew the weaknesses in the earth camp so he proved to be a valuable asset to the Na'vi in their battle against the earth forces. Who better to kick your ass than someone from your own camp? The specific Na'vi clan the Terrans were with was the Omaticaya and although there were other clans, they united long ago and no longer had need for person-to-person warfare training so the marine just spurred them on a bit and organised them into a BATTLE force as opposed to hunters who were such only for food. It had nothing to do with him being white. As an earth warrior and as a Na'vi he proved his worth. Drop dat TATA please.

If he were black then the talk would've been that James Cameron is talking about how blacks betrayed each other in Africa during slavery, the stronger tribes turning on the weaker ones, just as white boy turned on the marines and "his race".

If he were spanish then the outcry would've been that there's no way a latino would've turned against la raza.

If he were chinese, stereotypically small ppl, then the talk would've been that Asians could only make a difference with bigger, better bodies.

I even read a blog that says GAYS protested Avatar because there were no homosexuals in it and how dare James Cameron assume that a separate planet light years away would have a heterosexual societal structure.


Allyuh really want to push dat SH!T talk? JEEZAN boi... 

[Arcmanov]

Lawd Wesleigh...yuh on yuh own with that yes.

The movie had white actors because it was made in a country with a majority white population.
Be thankful that there were non-white cast members to begin with.

Must we see 'racial undertones' in EVERYTHING!!?

If Avatar was made in Japan, or China, and the Jake Sully character was played by a non-white person,
would your argument still make sense?  Really, I want your opinion on that.

[Crixx_Creww]

Oh BULLSHIT. I'm fed up with this "racist undertone" nonsense. He was verse in military tactics and he knew the weaknesses in the earth camp so he proved to be a valuable asset to the Na'vi in their battle against the earth forces. Who better to kick your ass than someone from your own camp? The specific Na'vi clan the Terrans were with was the Omaticaya and although there were other clans, they united long ago and no longer had need for person-to-person warfare training so the marine just spurred them on a bit and organised them into a BATTLE force as opposed to hunters who were such only for food. It had nothing to do with him being white. As an earth warrior and as a Na'vi he proved his worth. Drop dat TATA please.

If he were black then the talk would've been that James Cameron is talking about how blacks betrayed each other in Africa during slavery, the stronger tribes turning on the weaker ones, just as white boy turned on the marines and "his race".

If he were spanish then the outcry would've been that there's no way a latino would've turned against la raza.

If he were chinese, stereotypically small ppl, then the talk would've been that Asians could only make a difference with bigger, better bodies.

I even read a blog that says GAYS protested Avatar because there were no homosexuals in it and how dare James Cameron assume that a separate planet light years away would have a heterosexual societal structure.


Allyuh really want to push dat SH!T talk? JEEZAN boi... 

I was going to post my review of the movie when it was fresh in my mind and i had the energy to write all my points down, but for now i will just copy what i posted on facebook when i saw it.

All it takes to see the racism is watch Pocahontas and then watch avatar and you'll go.. zomg... the  na'vi  are native americans/west africans and the white man has come to steal their shit. Whilst bringing English and education and civility to the savages... yeeaah
ohh and of course the obligatory white boy joins tribe of natives, learns their ways in a ...  few days/weeks/months through a montage of trainy things he does, and then either becomes an uber utlra master of whatever they take generations and centuries to develop orrr he does whatever they consider to be the greatest feat of bravery in their culture, reserved for only the most epic of ultra guntas.. because hes you know.. white.. and White power enables him to do anything

This theme pervades alot of holywood's movies.
Just like in forbidden kingdom where they insert white boi into ancient china, and he does montage training from jet li and jackie chan and somehow becomes the baddest shit since whole wheat crix.
Same thing done in the last samurai where some how miraculously Tom Cruise goes into hyperbolic chamber type training over one winter, knows the culture and language and manages to be on equal footing with uber leet samurai who train and battle they whole life in their own art , then of course they all get gun dong, and by the grace of white powaa, Tom lives and becomes the last f*&*&*() samurai.. wowww.

And the reason the movie has such racist under and over tones, is because the story is so similiar, either by chance or design to the Pocahuntas story WHICH WAS A RACISTS ASS PIECE OF WHITE PROPAGANDA!

I mean, maybe you havent watched enough holywood movies and read enough history to pick up the big hard sweaty vein of White American Imperialism that marches steadily on through much of holywoods epics.
It exist in Book of Eli as well! Its like, they could have gone the whole movie and stuck with the supposedly subtle bible thumping but noooooooooooooooooooooooooo we have to throw in White Christian/White european supremecy. In a post apocalyptic world where books are as rare as non bad red tings, the ONLY literature and art worth saving is of course white european and white american.

Even Karate kid, which i loveeeeeeddd as a youth but now see it for what it is, and now, the new karate kid
omgwtfbbq!! Sure its a little black boi... but its a little black boi in China.. learning kungfu ( a la montage training from epic master Jackey Chan) and yet still they call it Karate Kid, wtf is that!! Thats their typical disrespect to other cultures. MEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH . Its a seperate issue than teh white powaaa but its an issue non the less.

As for what you asked arc.
The simple answer is that it would NOT have been done by China.

[Arcmanov]

Whatever...I still think its much ado about nothing...but this made me laugh though...

In a post apocalyptic world where books are as rare as non bad red tings

Seriously though, my question stands.

[wesleigh]

ah crixx, i could lime wit u boy!

is alot of supremist propaganda being spread, usually placing white as supreme over all others, and if not, american over all others...whether fiction like this recent avatar or even movies with more historical basis. E.G.: they make a movie about ugandan pm which is based on some fact, yet still the main protagonist had to be a white man who managed to infiltrate the pm's camp/family etc. how would u like it they made a movie bout the history of steel pan and the story was mostly about a white man named larry who was spree simon best friend and called it legend of the steeldrum(or something like that u get my point)?

but to answer ur question arc, my prob isnt that the lead man was white, obviously if i make a movie in trini i wouldnt have the star lookin like tom cruise, my argument lies in the fact that they continuously portray other races as being incapable as doing things themselves, solving problems themselves...in avatar's case i mighta let it slide if all the naavi werent portrayed by non white actors, u kno then i woulda thought race was unimportant, but the fact that was important and considering the same premise of other movies where non whites incapable i was alarmed.

[TriniXaeno]

no doubt, but lets also look at the source of the material.

For argument sake, if the amerindians made a movie, I'm sure it wouldn't have the same plot mechanics as Pocahontas. Unfortunately, not that many Amerindians in the movie making business.

Chinese movies are pro chinese.

South Korean movies are pro Korean. Just look at the South Korean film, "Fighter in the Wind" for example. A movie about a korean kid that goes to Japan, learns Karate and beats every japanese martial artist under the rising sun. (pun intended). If you think that's crazy...get this...it's loosely based on true events.

At the end of the day, the power is in the pen. Avatar wasn't penned by mexicans, trinis, nigerian's or asians. It was penned by caucasions and the story reflects that (as was pocahontas).

[Q]

Why is the fact that the voice actors were non-white an issue? Not all of them were of the same race anyway. You had blacks, spanish AND native americans. So what? In Titan A.E., Drew Barrymore voiced an Asian chick and I'm sure that there are DOZENS more examples of ppl voice acting outside their race. The fact that the Na'vi were voiced by non-whites is a moot point imho. Besides, as I said, the Na'vi weren't about WARFARE anymore. Who better to help them win a fight against Terran Marine forces than a DEFECTING MARINE? The fact that he was white is irrelevant. It's no different from the Seven Samurai who taught farmers how to kick ass.

Besides, as NGW said, who told the story? It reminds me of a quote from Chaucer's Wife of Bath : "Who peynted the lion?" It refers to cave paintings of men conquering lions. Had a lion painted it, he would've painted himself feasting on human flesh, not getting his ass speared. That being said, which American director seeking success will tell a story that spits on the US of A? Accusing them of propaganda is like accusing the Women's Suffrage Movement of gender bias.

Meditate on that.

[TriniXaeno]

Accusing them of propaganda is like accusing the Women's Suffrage Movement of gender bias.

lol, point well made.

[Q]

^ ty.

*I was afraid that I was the only one who remembered what that was, lol. Chakra.*

[Saxito Pau]

Finally watched this movie tonight....

I need a therapist.... 

I think I got too emotionally attached to the movie... 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movies/01/11/avatar.movie.blues/index.html

[Q]

If you watched it in 3D Sax, you'll have that tabanca for a while, lol.

[Saxito Pau]

If you watched it in 3D Sax, you'll have that tabanca for a while, lol.

Thas the hard part. I didn't.

I don't want to know what would have happened to me if I did...

I felt so heavy walking back to the car. My whole body was in a state of shock. I was barely able to drive. My two female friends who accompanied me were laughing at me.

I think Police need to have an 'Emotionalyzer test' for Avatar watchers....


(I hereby diagnose myself as having "Avatar Depression Syndrome.")

[Berzerk]

really dont see the big deal about this movie nah. i clean forgot about it 2 hours after..

[Spazosaurus]

I watched this movie in 3d over the weekend for the first time.

Sadly, I had high expectations that were mercilessly cut down.

It was simply a booring, generic plot wrapped up with beautiful 3d rendering (which admittedly was freaking awesome) to distract ppl from that fact.

I did not get a racism vibe from it at all, maybe because I wasnt aware of the black actors thing. Still, I see it as a non issue. As Wyatt say, its a hollywood movie. Talk done.

Throughout this movie, I felt like ive watched it before because there are so many others that are based on this exact premise.

Bad guys come to take the good guys shit, bad guys appear to win in the beginning, good guys suffer heavy losses, eventually good guys against all odds manage to overpower their opressors.

Mega yawn.

[Crixx_Creww]

well the black actors thing is not the racism
the racism is the Pocahontas thing
jake sully should have just been named John McWhitey White Messiah Smith

and its touted as a 3d movie but like about 30% or less of the movie is actually 3D.. meh
shrek 3d lookin bad doh... and alice too and de dragon thing in 3d

[woodyear99]

I was impressed with the movie because I set my expectations low lol, I was expecting it to be on the same level or worse than Gamer and Surrogates from last year.

[Spazosaurus]

Its all about setting reasonable expectations right?

I say all the hype it hadda be damn good. The kids love it though.

[woodyear99]

Yeah I didn't get on the hype train cuz all along I thought the movie Avatar, was actually the last airbender. Not a huge fan of that anime series so I didn't get what all the fuss was about lol. It was only like a week before the release when Redlum send me the trailer.....

[W1nTry]

I only saw it recently and I did hear ALOT of hype from close friends, so I did expect it to be good, but I didn't give it UNrealistic expectations. If you're like me and can appreciate technical brlliance then this movie will ROCK UR WORLD. This is by FAR the best use of computer animations i've EVER seen and i've seen ALOT XD. It was clean, crisp and fluid. Sure the story was pretty standard but what movie today isn't. I appreciated it for being entertaining and just beautiful to watch.

On the note of 30% 3D, that's not true, it's 100% 3D but your perception of '3D' is what you have to consider. If you're reffering to POP out of the screen, then yes its' arguably 30%, however I appreciate that should you watch 3HOURS of '3D' you'd prolly have a really bad headache. I think it COULD have been used more (the 'POP' effect) but it was not UNDER-used.

There is a reason this movie is now the BEST SELLING movie of all time. So like it or hate it, the movie is good/great/EPIC depending on your criteria for judgement. I'd wager that 2+ billion dollars say that if you think it sucks you're a MINORITY. I don't expect this movie to win awards for acting but I do expect it to win on technical merits.

As for the racist thing... I find that comment odd as Zoe Saldana was the voice of the female LEAD. Also though JC has publicly said this movie if anything is tied to whats going on in afghanistan, it's pretty obvious there's a native american indian story here. Both being minorities and as such I can't see how this is racist in any way.