The Antec Skeleton

[phoenix31tt]

correct @ kraeoss

and ... @ crixx...

airflow can be applied to aircrafts etc... but the basic definition fits... MOVING AIR FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER...

it doesnt have to have an object between the 2 points to call it airflow... waw... really good thing u not into designing :S,
next thing i go hear... a river have to flow around a object to create waterflow or water currents... *dies laughing*
and the name callin really makes u look like a lil boy eh... how old are u again?

but fix up oui... with ur "googled" explanations etc... ah well... i done

[Crixx_Creww]

ugghhh @ again the butchering of the idea of "airflow" by phoenix and now kraeoss

the ambient temperature of your room is considerably less than the heat produced my the machine.

Simple thermal dynamics , the temperature delta between exhaust heat and ambient temperature creates an energy gradient between a and b, resulting in a cooling effect.

You both have a very misguided idea of the way air currents within a closed and open systems operate.

Iam NOT going to school you two on fluid dynamics and LOL @ the notion of me using "google facts" quite silly, especially since i was merely countering your "dictionary explanation" of the term airflow, by *drum rolll* looking in a dictionary for the definition of airflow, which of course was not your stupid first attempt at "going dictionary " on me.

As for the name calling, nothing wrong in calling a duck a duck .

Back to the thermal and fluid dynamics, the exhaust fan would create an updraft looking similiar to that of the movement of hot and cold air coming into and out of a tornado.

There would be NO eddy currents created by this process HENCE THE LACK OF THE NEED TO SET UP EFFICIENT PATHWAYS FOR AIRFLOW ZOMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG


your problem is definately english comprehension
maybe yu should go back to primary school and take a second or third or fourth or whatever attempt at gaining some well comprehension of english comprehension.

[phoenix31tt]

* phoenix31tt yawns...

is like spinning top in mud with some men oui...
ah well...

* phoenix31tt also begins to tear down the sides of his pc case to allow the 200mm fan on top to do a better job

calling a duck a duck... ok cool... *i'll refer to u as immature idiot from now own*...

[Crixx_Creww]

yu can do so
then get banned
yur choice

[phoenix31tt]

well thats my 2 points proven...

1. immature callin a duck a duck but cant take it when u get called a duck... even doh u are indeed... a "duck"

2. idiot for all the nonsense u posting

[MessiaaH]

OK, Time for me to jump in.

Crixx, if nothing is wrong with calling a duck a duck, den nothing is wrong with calling an idiot an idiot. and Crixx, youre and idiot :S

Firstly, d fact that the top fan is exhuast helps the design alot.
Secondly. Alyuh thinking of computer parts, as heatin the air around it. And therefore, once large amounts of air is moved by the top fan. the hot air wil be moved away from the components. but that is not how heat in a pc works *yawns*

Yes the air around a component gets a little hot. And moving that air will do little or nothing for the thermal levels of the component. D key is getin d heat AWAY from your components. This is acheived by the use of heatsinks.

So d heat from yuh cpu wil be trasnfered to d heatsink. Then something has to get d heat away from d heatsink, not d air around d heatsink. In order for heat to move from d heatsink, u need high rates of thermal transfer. And d air around d component is not enough to trasnfer d heat from d sink to d air, which u assume can jus be moved away.

D convection of airflow against the heatsink, causes a high rate of transfer of the heat on the sink to d air particles.
So if u dont have proper convection and airflow. yuh components wil remain hot. Hot air rising into that exhuast fan not going to do squat for your thermals. And the fan ontop there cant make the proper convection/airflow required to cool yuh components.

Now you may be thinking, point the fan on the CPU heatsink upward toward the exhuast fan, and yes this will help maters alot. But what about d rest of components on your board. Memory, Northbridge, Sothbridge, Voltage Regulators. Or arent you planing on cooling them too ? :S::S:S and no way in hell that exhuast fan could cool them things d way that case design.

If you want to see what proper airflow is, take a look at cases where the heat generated is more than the average machine here dose. Look at HP or IBM Blades. and you will see the importance of airflow, how it affects yuh components. If you make a open ibm/hp blade, yuh go bun down yuhc ompnents in a week.

Dat case is meant to test machines, and dats it. Besides issues like dust, acidental water drop being flicked off yuh hands when yuh come from d bathroom. Unpredictable exposure to your parts being exposed for long periods of time.
Besides all that. as phoenix keep trying top say. Dis case is not a cooling monster, quite the oposite.

Nobody, well nobody dat have a brain. going to get ride of their proper case to run this as their fulltime rig.
Keep your eyes open, you'll see. And it doesnt mater how technical you get. how much physics you know, how much u coudl talk about airflow. (Well i less on airflow and more on the dynamcis of waterflow ) It dont mater who yuh call a duck, who is a parot, none of that matters. All that matters is figures.

So if ppl wnat to know who know more about airflow. Take a look at ppl thermals.

And if im not mistaken, Phoenix have one of d coolest aircooled rigs here.
I cant realy coment becuase i dont have airflow again. waterflow ftw. and my GPUs runign 40 Degrees under full load OVERCLOCKED and volt moded.

Cheerios campers. now folks, watch as crixx responds with an emotional idiotic remark, and makes even a bigger fool of him self than he already has.

[Arcmanov]

Guys, come on, no need for that.

Weapons down...s l o w l y...

As we on the 'hot' topic of airflow,  which do you think is better?  Positive pressure, or negative pressure.
I for one am an advocate for positive pressure, i.e. more intake than exhaust.

[Crixx_Creww]

Firstly, d fact that the top fan is exhuast helps the design alot.
Secondly. Alyuh thinking of computer parts, as heatin the air around it. And therefore, once large amounts of air is moved by the top fan. the hot air wil be moved away from the components. but that is not how heat in a pc works *yawns*

So i guess computer manufacturers invented a new type of heat right.. steups.

Yes the air around a component gets a little hot. And moving that air will do little or nothing for the thermal levels of the component. D key is getin d heat AWAY from your components. This is acheived by the use of heatsinks.

So d heat from yuh cpu wil be trasnfered to d heatsink. Then something has to get d heat away from d heatsink, not d air around d heatsink. In order for heat to move from d heatsink, u need high rates of thermal transfer. And d air around d component is not enough to trasnfer d heat from d sink to d air, which u assume can jus be moved away.

D convection of airflow against the heatsink, causes a high rate of transfer of the heat on the sink to d air particles.
So if u dont have proper convection and airflow. yuh components wil remain hot. Hot air rising into that exhuast fan not going to do squat for your thermals. And the fan ontop there cant make the proper convection/airflow required to cool yuh components.

You also either lack an understanding of physics or lack the ability to express your points properly.
You are saying that something needs to get the heat away from the heat sink, not the air around the heat sink.
You keep throwing around that word convection but you arent addressing the totality of the issue.
In real life where the laws of physics apply convection and conduction play a major role in this scenario.
The heat of the parts are conducted to the heat sinks, the heat on the heat sinks then pass their heat off to the air particles that make contact with them, if the air is stagnant, the number of particles colliding with the heat sinks will be minimal and thus the cooling effect will be minimal. In the scenario with the exhaust fan, convection currents are created in an upward draft, moving a large quantity of air in a vortex like pattern up and out of the rig. Now you may or may not know that nature abhors a vacuum, hence when a volume of air is removed from an area, more air will rush in to fill this void, so consequently the number of air particles making collisions with the heat sink will increase dramatically removing more and more heat. The advantage of using this system over a blowing system is the removal of eddy currents which have a negative impact on the actual amount of air removed from a system.

The second part of the cooling effect is the use of the temperature delta between ambient air and air leaving the exhaust.
The greater the delta, the greater the cooling effect.

Lastly, that quip about hp and ibm blades and their cooling blah blah blah  http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/09/18/intel-servers-do-fine-with-outside-air/
go argue with intel please.

Iam sitting here staring at my blades in their open rack and wondering how come they have not caught on fire like mathew says it will!! *gasp* and.. and they have been running for.... months now oh noeessss??


Cute that you came to save your widdle bwother.

[phoenix31tt]

wow @ that link...

its proving that you dont need treated air for proper data center operations... it has NOTHING to do with running a blade unconvered... *dies with laughter again*
ok u just proved ur lack of understanding so i off you


back to arcman...

well ideally i would want no pressure ... but we cant have that can we ...
but i agree with u... if it's an ac environment, i would go with the positive pressure seeing as the cooler air coming in would help the situation more

but in a hotter environment the negative pressure may be benificial as you would be pull out more hot air and pushing in less hot air

[Nephilim]

As this discussion is so heated I suggest it be moved to this thread where all future discussion on the intricacies of cooling will go, in fact I'm  encouraging anyone who even has a decent idea of an effeicient cooling method is to come post it in here, there are rules ofc.

[Crixx_Creww]

wow, did yu even read the article?

2 test beds, one with recirculated barely treated air, the other with an intake and exhaust fan system?
one is an ac the other is a big ole fan blowing the exhaust out the trailer and sucking air into the trailer
showing the failure rate to be almost the same as the managed data center


so mathews claim of holocaust in the server room is not correct!!
also backed by the fact that iam sitting in my server room
no ac on, open rack
and machines are perfectly ok
as they have been for the past 8 months they have been sitting here

[MessiaaH]

to crixx, do u event understand what that article is about? it proves how important a close airflow system is. becuase with a closed system, your airflow is good. so your machine could operate under different situations with little negative impact. so if i design a case with good airflow, weather it in ac or not, d thing wil run cool. that skeleton in a hot room, will cuase plenty problems. and u say u staring at your blades in there open wrack :s what are you speaking about :S you blades runing in a skeleton? :S point me to a link please, ive never seen such a blade.
D new Baldes HP and IBM coming out wiht over d next 5 years, are specificaly designed to with ariflow in mind. I talk to d men who building d systems. And dey was explaining how dey getin d air from d front of d case, to d back. and which componenets dey going to cool first, and how d air going to flow over dem and what not. So i dont have to argue with intel :S dey agree with me *yawns*

and if you think that top fan, have enough force, to create a VACUME on yuh board, and air comes gushing in to cool  yuh components , then you have to be chosen as GATT's idiot of the year. becuase JAH! If thats the case, why bother to have any intake fan on any case. Hell lets all juss cut a hole infront we case. and use exhausts fans only. YAY, that we we create a negtaive pressure vaume YAY! rofl

Back to serious business.

Arcman. During my reserach of d different pressure types, i couldnt make up my mind nah. dey both have dey addvantages and disadvantages. D main thing i like about positive pressure is dust control.

D positive pressure wil have a high pressure inside d case, which repels dust particles from entering into slits and creases in yuh case. So if u have fan filters, all d dust wil be caught right there. So it keeps inside yuh case clean. less dust means longer parts, and better thermals.

So i try to remain as nuetral as posible with the pressure. but if i have to chose, id go positive.

[phoenix31tt]

I talk to d men who building d systems. And dey was explaining how dey getin d air from d front of d case, to d back. and which componenets dey going to cool first, and how d air going to flow over dem and what not. So i dont have to argue with intel :S dey agree with me *yawns*

lol and i work with them...
the blades and the people who build them...

lol @ open rack... all racks are indeed "open" duh... that have nothing to do with the blade :S

[Crixx_Creww]

to crixx, do u event understand what that article is about? it proves how important a close airflow system is. becuase with a closed system, your airflow is good. so your machine could operate under different situations with little negative impact. so if i design a case with good airflow, weather it in ac or not, d thing wil run cool. that skeleton in a hot room, will cuase plenty problems. and u say u staring at your blades in there open wrack :s what are you speaking about :S you blades runing in a skeleton? :S point me to a link please, ive never seen such a blade.
D new Baldes HP and IBM coming out wiht over d next 5 years, are specificaly designed to with ariflow in mind. I talk to d men who building d systems. And dey was explaining how dey getin d air from d front of d case, to d back. and which componenets dey going to cool first, and how d air going to flow over dem and what not. So i dont have to argue with intel :S dey agree with me *yawns*

and if you think that top fan, have enough force, to create a VACUME on yuh board, and air comes gushing in to cool  yuh components , then you have to be chosen as GATT's idiot of the year. becuase JAH! If thats the case, why bother to have any intake fan on any case. Hell lets all juss cut a hole infront we case. and use exhausts fans only. YAY, that we we create a negtaive pressure vaume YAY! rofl

Back to serious business.

Arcman. During my reserach of d different pressure types, i couldnt make up my mind nah. dey both have dey addvantages and disadvantages. D main thing i like about positive pressure is dust control.

D positive pressure wil have a high pressure inside d case, which repels dust particles from entering into slits and creases in yuh case. So if u have fan filters, all d dust wil be caught right there. So it keeps inside yuh case clean. less dust means longer parts, and better thermals.

So i try to remain as nuetral as posible with the pressure. but if i have to chose, id go positive.

steups wrong AGAIN
the article was NOT about the importance of closed air cooling the article was about intel doing test to see how they could reduce their energy cost. and two of the methods they used were to use less clean recycled air ac and no ac at all just exhaust and intake fan system. The test proved that even with such a reduced cooling method the machines did not suffer from tremendous failure as u say they would and this was over a 10 month not week long period.

Secondly the rack is a newlink rack cut to our specifications because the server room cannot fit a full sized closed rack
so we have a custom cut open rack with our blades, network devices and desktop servers and currently getting a second custom cut one to house 8 more servers.

All working fine, ac doesnt even work in the room, has some extraction fans in the ceilings and thats it.

and its nice that your ignoring the physics again. The fan moves large volumes of air, how many people have 250mm fans in the freaking case? none??? oh ok thought so but yet again!! it underscores the idea of open versus closed!! this large ass fan may not work by itself in a closed environment but works beautifully in an open environment.

you probably have some silly scifi idea of what a "vacume" is, but all it is a pressure differential, and in this case, the movement of a large volume of air quickly, creates enough negative pressure as to draw rapidly, air from the surrounding environment.

you favour reviews on products, go read some on the skeleton and please do take note of the mention of the great cooling,specifically cause of the movement of large volumes of air quickly please.

And umm, while we on that, i suggest yu throw away all the fans in your house
cause clearly with your logic, fans dont work to cool anything

[MessiaaH]

Yawns, a human being does not generate heat over 100 degrees celcious. You talking about cooling hot components here. Also, i dotn care what custom cut open what yuh have. U know there are fans in d actual blade right :S like each individual module :S u even know how a blade works:S

Ive personaly withness cases, where ppl AC fail, and d server room bun down, kiling millions of dollors in equpiment.
What kinda shit blades u have? i talking bout Dual Quad Core Xeons with 16GB of ram each, ful wiht 15k RPM SAS Drives. Backed by a 15 Drive 15k SAS Nas. wraks full wiht blades. Cisco Switches and what not. and we ent even start talking about d towers.

If you dont have d heat, obviosuly yuh going to need less cooling.
And nobody is saying d Skeleton wont be cool. When ppl seting up test bed, dey rigs dont be bunin down u know :S:S:S:S:S when i testin my rig it dont even be in a case, it does be on a table :S

what we saying is, COMPAREDD to a closed system, with good airflow, that skeleton is SH*T
and nobody going to get rid of there good case to buy that filt. not even Anandtec. You wont find him dead runin that case as his main rig

[phoenix31tt]

Secondly the rack is a newlink rack cut to our specifications because the server room cannot fit a full sized closed rack
so we have a custom cut open rack with our blades, network devices and desktop servers and currently getting a second custom cut one to house 8 more servers.

All working fine, ac doesnt even work in the room, has some extraction fans in the ceilings and thats it.

please stop talkin about ur open rack... because your just makin things worst for yourself... your open rack has nothing to do with the actual blades inside... u do know that rite?... the blades themselves are designed for proper airflow...
try takin out one of ur blades (if its an hp) push the lil handle lookin think with the pink square... then hold the handle and pull it out, then remove the top cover, depending on ur blade class that would be different, next place it in an emtpy bay away from the other blades, and run it for ur 8 mths...
p.s. have HP support number on speed dial... hehe

[Crixx_Creww]

rofl rofl rofl
so the physics just stops working because the temperature is above 100 degrees celsius? how in the f**** does that make sense?? ahahhahaah steupsss ok my fault
i went way to high brow i wont bring physics into it cause clearly you dont grasp the concepts and thats fine, you never said you were a Physicists or anything...

[MessiaaH]

what u talking bout physics :S:S:S d physics is d SAME d APPLICATION is not :S

We not saying d Skeleton will move no air period :S we saying it not moving enouhg to properly cool them aprts, as apposed to a closed system. So a standing fan will work fine enouhg to cool a human, put it to cool something hot and dats totaly different. what u talking bout throwing physics out d window :S

Common sense was around long before physics, and you seem to be serverly lacking in both departs.
D more you post is d more you letin me know yuh knows nothing *yawns*

It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and erase all doubt.
Fire Away Crixx

[Arcmanov]

Lol. That's "erase all doubt" there mh.

[MessiaaH]

err fixed