WARHAMMER is here!!!!

[shivadee]

Who have it....who gettin it....who want it.......it out today

Phoenix Throne server.....installing now

will give updates later.

[TriniXaeno]

It's so strange seeing my fantasy version of my beloved scifi warhammer lore.

Orks look the same though. Guess they didn't evolve much after 40,000 years.

How's the game experience thus far shiv?? living up to the name?

[shivadee]

pretty much. All the images you show there are in the Dark Elf starting area. Im playing both a Witch Elf and a Sorceress. PvP is very much a part of this game. The questing isnt bad either. Spent about 4-5 hours in it already and I like it. It needs some work but i think this game could do very well.

This aint no WoW killer though. People love to use that term "wowkiller". These people fail to realize the following

1. A good MMO means that this is ALL the person plays. This is not HALO or TF2 or DOTA or anything like that. Its a game people play for YEARS.....about 12 hours a day or MORE at the most. Where communication and community is a must. You cant just pull people from that, yet alone 10 million people ( or even 8 million - multiple accounts)

2. You dont just MAKE an MMO, these are THE most complex games to make....END of story. You dont just say "wow DC Universe looking sick" it does NOT...the game looks like @SS!! they shouldn't have shown a Godd*amn thing at comicon for that game. Stargate Universe? the community that follows Stargate isnt NEARLY enough to make returns on the money it costs to LAUNCH an MMO like this. Developers are learning this each and every day, the hard way *cough* Flagship *cough*

3. Warhammer has the community, which is why the game would stay. Same reason for LOTRO. Its doing quite well, and its due to the community mostly, those that love LOTR like the game, for the most part.

As of now this release was premature. It WAS necessary however, in the wake of LICH, Warhammer HAD to be released  before. If Lich came out before Warhammer it doesn't matter WHO likes War, even though WoW is a STRAIGHT up ripoff from Warhammer, no one CARES. Guess who is playing what? and guess who is reaping the benefits.

Bottom line, you want an MMO to start with i suggest this. I dont really recommend anyone to START playing WoW without KNOWING someone on the sever that plays it and can help you out. The community is so developed its like walking into a restaurant and asking "do you all sell food?".....its that dumb to ask certain questions in that game.

Stupid? Yes......they care? no. They are not elitists, but they figured if by now you havent started playing this game when its in its WIND DOWN stages, you might as well not bother. WoW is gonna last about 1 more year, then the content will be exhausted and its done.

[Crixx_Creww]

wow = karebear blarg blarg blarg any noob could pick that up no scene

go play retail lineage blarg blarg


lol

describe the pvp system a bit please
it has to pass the lineage test to be considered god pvp so describe plixxy

[shivadee]

WoW = PvE with tacked on PvP BS......PvE content which you consider carebear is FAR more difficult to manage, run and maintain than ANYTHING pVp based......ANYTHING. And the rewards for PvE is far......FAR better in terms of satisfaction......FAAAARRRRR. But the time it takes to do it.....is EPIC FAIL....too much time.

Ive done 2 battlegrounds in WAR......both at low level. The first is essentially capture and hold flag sections, other is siege on a castle, one defends, one attacks. You talkin bout Mythic here, these people put the PvP of Lineage to SHAME, infact Dark Age of Camelot was that Lineage STOLE to make their PvP gameplay good. Take that....multiply it by 1000 and you have WAR PvP.

Give them a month to work out their sh!t and fix their servers with floods, and join. You want pvP MMO....you go WAR....there is no competition.

Im waiting for Lich, leveling to the new cap, do ONE raid...and im DONE with WoW......im already bored of the game and uninterested. I dont know if its Activision, or just flogging a dead horse, but the game is OUT of steam for me. Already on the switch to WAR.

[Lelouch]

I LOVE how people ALWAYS jump to d "WoW is an ADVANCED community" line whenever WoW is challenged. Very funny. I played WoW. Fer months actaully. Advanced? Please. It doesn't actually matter. I picked it up 2 years ago(put down 3 months later). The community then isnt much different from most other MMORPG's out there. Trust me. I've been around the block. Been looking fer dat ONE special one but cyah nevr find it. Insted I go Guild Wars for PvP and LOTRO for PvE. Great combo. Oh, and DOMO for just chilling;sometimes Shaiya for old times sake. In d end, "WoW-killer" is now irrelevant. Warhammer Online will be/is a success; LOTRO as well. And so are dozens of others out there. In d end WoW built up enough hype around it to be self-indulging for its community. But d truth is it comes down 2 PREFERENCE. If u WANT to play WoW, go ahead. If u want an informed opinion, chek out about 4 different MMORPG's b4 u make a FINAL decision. Oho...Warhammer does ROCK!

[Crixx_Creww]

WoW = PvE with tacked on PvP BS......PvE content which you consider carebear is FAR more difficult to manage, run and maintain than ANYTHING pVp based......ANYTHING. And the rewards for PvE is far......FAR better in terms of satisfaction......FAAAARRRRR. But the time it takes to do it.....is EPIC FAIL....too much time.

I now remember i was supposed to respond to this.
This sir, is totally NOT TRUE!!! the rewards for pve is far better in terms of satisfaction than pvp? lol that is certainly true in WoW but not true in truelly great MMOs like L2.

People pve in L2 for leveling and items so that they can fare better in pvp. that game is so highly pvp driven that you thirst and hunger for it when your away for too long!!

Heart pounding excitement and victory! Ive pve'd in various mmos and its all just bleh, even my beloved GW, except WoW goes the extra step as to leach your life in the process, like a low dose heroin addiction.

Some day you will sit down and play some L2. maybe on a private server dedicated to pvp to start and feel the glory of clan battles, of hero battles, castle sieges, turf wars, alliances going up and down, never knowing who you could really trust!! but at the same time throwing yourself into the spartanly battles!! roarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

steups i feel like duckin work RIGHT NOW to jump on my flikkin SS or a dutty dagga and just stabeye real peeps steups!!
even healing in L2 is so much more rewarding than in other games!! the feeling of spamming heals so fast and mass rezing entires alliances awwwwwwwwwwww God like!!


steups at wow pve content far more rewarding PFFFTTT spoken like a man only exposed to WoW pvp

[shivadee]

L2 = PHAIL!
Free Server = phail

no profits mean SLOW development and buggy as hell worlds....not to mention "well we takin down the servers.....game done" juss so...because why? it was FREE! they could do what they want.....doh even GET me started on counterbalance, balance and playoff matrices that just FAIL in that game.

[Crixx_Creww]

L2 is not fail, been around alot longer than WoW and still successfull and L1 is the most successful mmo of all time so yeahh... server not going no whereesss.

Retail lineage is very balanced, free servers are not balanced because of mana potions and stat augmentations and the lot

but besides that part of free servers, the game is NOT buggy, the game IS successfull, INFACT!!! wow included some things from L2 in their game and vice versa, when wow released some things, L2 added similiar little features to the game in patches.

The servers have constant uptime, dread i dont even know why iam having this discussion
played the game for 2 years straight. Which would = about 4 karebear WoW years.

[Crixx_Creww]

hmm iam guessing hes thinking of sales, monthly logons, critical and fan acclaim, longevity, and actual gooderness of the game. Bugs, camera angles, lag, wide selections, enthralling game play... i mean those are some of the criteria I would youse.

Lineage scores on all facets btw

[shivadee]

...except for enthralling gameplay

the BIGGEST thing you look for in PvP elements is BALANCE. Balance between classes and to make them Intransitive or Transitive in nature. The typical example is Starcraft...whatever people may say. This is one of the first titles that actually used the 'rock paper scissors" example in an RTS to THIS level of success.  You have an all round race, and offensive race and a defensive race - but at the same time, you can use attributes of the theory to defeat one another anyway!


http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html

which is what I used in one of my research methods on game design classes. Very good site, very accurate.

on a "non gamer rant" note. When i read information about what people say about MMO's on Gamasutra or Game Developer (FYI Kotaku is a piece of sh!t when it comes to game opinion or theory, thats a gamer fan/news site) they have a very wrong idea of how MMO's should "be"

and this seems to trickle down into the current MMO's that come out today. One person wrote on how "SONY made the MMO successful".....are you out of your mind? or just dumb as a post? You mean the same company that took Star Wars MMO and made it into half a game, with 10 times less content and a HUGE nerf in the class structure? Or the Same company that took Matrix Online, which was actually appearing to be good, cut out 3 of the only EIGHT zones in the game, reduce the level cap and THEN got rid of the Wachowski Bros who were actually WRITING the storyline for the game? you talkin bout THAT Sony?

Bottom line about MMO's and Crixx and many others can agree with this, those that play allot of MMO's. This is a COMPLETELY different genre in relation to ANY other. You dont just "add something new" just like that, you dont just "put something fresh" or the current "what makes this game stand out" scenario.

The MMO community is

1. Set in their ways
2. they HATE change
3. They want to relate to what they play

And mind you they want to relate to it because they only play ONE GAME. This is why you see some fools invest in multiple accounts and stuff. This is all they play! They dont play Farcry 2, they dont play Force Unleashed......not until you can get it for 9 bucks.

Why they dont play it? 3 years of playing this, meeting these people IN PERSON.....

4. Some of them just dont have the money...which is fine and understandable. But the truth is, they dont care about rl achievements! You know how MANY.....and i mean i know a good 50 ppl in WoW, who just dont care working some fast food job for 4-5 hours a day to get enough money to buy food, pay for their account and bills and thats IT!...JUST to play WoW, and im NOT kidding. These SAME people, heralded as the "best" on the server. Acting elitist, and using "big words" to appear as if they are intelligent.....they are NOT!. AT ALL! But they play this game well! they understand it well! so in THIS game, you cant tell them anything, because essentially...they could be an overweight fatass irl....but in here....they are not!

(and BELIEVE ME people....when i say some of these people fat...i mean DAYM) You know how much HOT girls i see at blizzcon with BUSS...and i mean REAAAAALLLLL buss fellas, and you DUN know...this is the first time they meet irl.

Its crazy! its fanatical! ......but that is how it is!

So bottom line......the only game that is going to SURPASS a game like Lineage 2 or WoW.......or any other successful MMO is ANOTHER game that comes out LIKE that game....and most likely by the SAME company.

Warhammer had its chance......and look at the garbage that ensued!

Im expecting good things for KoTOR and actually believe i could be wrong with my theory, given that Bioware is making this game. Now the reasoning does not just stop there...goes far beyond that. From the current article in game developer i read about with managers not knowing their head from their @ss about market structure to poor communication. Im hoping this goes well.

Blizzard is a company I hold in high regard....Starcraft is a copy of Warhammer 40k....we know this, Warcraft is a copy of Warhammer....we know this.....Diablo is a D&D style clone....we know this.....and we DONT CARE!. Its fun! and that is all that matters.

Mythic makes their games, and they are......good......some are decent but no where NEAR the level of profit and accolades that Blizzards games make. What did they do? "lets take all these great ideas and make something fun!...that DOESNT suck" and there u go!

In conclusion.....i see about 5-10 NEW people to WoW a DAY....on my server ALONE! And Crixx go tell you, you can spot a noob a MILE away in an MMO. And this is because of WoTLK thats hitting shelves in about 3 weeks....So expect the game population and SURGE to pass beyond the CURRENT 10-11 million active subscribers....TWO HUNDRED plus servers that are up (and this is in the US alone).

[Lelouch]

Dat was an interesting little rant but u forget sumting. Sumting BIGGGG. And dat is d Manning-itis, i.e. propaganda. Seriously, WoW is NOT d best MMORPG out there. It is a VERY good game but they didn;t do much original except make it easily accessible to non-hardcore MMO players. Without a crazy investment into advertising B4 the game came out then about a years after when you add all these "addict" stories on the news. Thats what propelled it inot popularity; becuz ppl didnt noe that there are others MMO's out there that are better. I'm not saying WoW isnt a great game, it just does alot GOOD, little GREAT (especially PvP). And u noe wat? Conan is so much better dan WoW it's mind blowing. But where's the advertising fer it? Blizzard is a giant with enough to self-hype their own products to frenzy point easily.

[Crixx_Creww]

wow also happens to be one of the only american based mmos
which probably had alot to do with its tremendous american population

but the major deciding factor in wows population is indeed that it is noob accessible.

And i have recently resigned myself to the inescapable fact that noobs run the world.. so no bother fighting it any longer

let the noobs stay in wow.
let the l33t play real mmos

[Lelouch]

Amen. I would have loved WoW if I hadnt played Guild Wars first. It's not REALLY an MMORPG, but it has the best PvP for me. The Limit of 8 skills and the intense teamwork-based battles....makes my mouth water just remembering some of the good old daiyes....But I honestly think Warhammer is a worthy successor to WoW...in a way. It has everything Any level of MMO gamer could want. Neways, I will stikk to LOTRO; I'm a Tolkien-whore....wat yah gonna do?

[shivadee]

Amen. I would have loved WoW if I hadnt played Guild Wars first. It's not REALLY an MMORPG, but it has the best PvP for me. The Limit of 8 skills and the intense teamwork-based battles....makes my mouth water just remembering some of the good old daiyes....But I honestly think Warhammer is a worthy successor to WoW...in a way. It has everything Any level of MMO gamer could want. Neways, I will stikk to LOTRO; I'm a Tolkien-whore....wat yah gonna do?

Warhammer needs another year minimum to succeed WoW. It was unfinished with broken skill trees and unbalanced leveling schematics. It can be argued that the game was rushed wit the announcement of Lich King. Warhammer is SEVERELY missing its PvE element.......TERRIBLY. There is NOTHING to do in the last quarter of your leveling cycle except grind. There are minimal dungeons with a huge emphasis on PvP. So no....not what anyone would like.
LoTRO is EXTREMELY PvE based with a minimal emphasis on PvP with the monster system. An interesting and growing community. If you were a "Tolkien whore" then you should know that its impossible to even fathom how the hell you get to go into the mines of Moria AND to fight a Balrog.
But to agree with your....which is the point of any title that is successful......no one cares!. People on these and many forums say "i dont see anything original".....you dont need to re-invent the wheel to make a game sell, and WoW is that example. All they do, is teef everyone else idea and make something that apparently millions of people like! So if you cant "technically" go into the Mines......i dont care! i wanna go! so lewee go!

pffft at Crixxx......the leet have steamrolled your "private" sever garbage and have moved on. Nihilum, D&T, Method, Millenium....blah blah...blah blah...c'mon man....everyone you ALL know from ALL the MMO's you play dont even the people i know on ONE server i play on -how many? 5? 10? 50? 100?......pfft.


Funniest thing i mentioned before. You log in your MMO servers and people start to talk about WoW....and a BIIIIIIIG QQ fest begins. Seen it on EVE, on Warhammer, Guild Wars, AoC....on and on. All one person does is troll and say "WoW is an awesome game" and the flames begin. But i doh see it on WoW! I dont even see ppl talking about other MMO's there. Nothing like "in L2 or AoC they do this..and that is better than this"..Not just that...when a NEW mmo is out like WAR.....This is chat

"So what you think of Warhammer"
"lol"
"I tried it...its okay"
"Ive been in beta for about 4 months now...its broken still"
"yea"
.....MOVING ON!!....we done! no more talk again! evar!

MMO's all have their share of noobs. You see them all the time in the lowbie levels, the ones that never "make it" and drop out before level cap, say the game sucks but doesnt realize the game BEGINS after cap. Spoken to several up here on my conference runs all over...reached level 42....and got bored. Ask em if they were in a guild......no. So you were leveling with a friend? no.....what about meeting people? no.....so you NEVER really spoke to anyone or so? No i didnt want to. Oh.....so WTMC you playing an mmo for then?

Dont gimme this garbage of PvP in an MMO without co ordinated vent play. I know Crixx handles that.....but some people i speak to. OMG I JUST WON THE BATTLEGROUND AND IT WAS SO AWESOME!...I ask "sweet with your guild?".."NO IT WAS JUST A RANDOM PUG".....and my face gone from to

I mean good lord fella.....when you actually win a PvP its usually on Vent with 40 other ppl setting up strategy. L2Playkthxbai


If noobs run the world.....well then.....im a wolf in mc sheeps clothing. Watch me hand some of these conglomerates their @ss, show them market structure and design....and then explain to them why the hell their "so called MMO's" even though they are FREE......still not selling like the ones that are being paid for. Theres a bridge between the developers and the gamer than needs to be built. The developer thinks the gamer doesnt know what they are talking about (and they are right - to an extent) and the gamer doesnt think the developers know what they are DOING (which is TRUE AS WELL). The developers actually think they are "too l337" and the gamers think "they know because we playing the game for x-years". The developers CANT DEFINE fun....and think what THEY make is what EVERYONE will like....juss so....
Gamers think their opinion is the WORLD!!! AND feel they dont need to give a reason for it, no theory, no information. "why dont they just make the graphics better! that would be awesome!" eh heh? JUSS SO? juss pull a $500,000 engine out we @ss and make it eh? With what money? Since alyuh in the  minority likeing alyuh minority game....we HAVE NO money! The community is TOO SMALL to make it "look better" or "play better" or even make an EXPANSION or update or patch fix every week. THINK people, this is just ONE aspect of this industry that needs to be explored and conquered.


Because an MMO has been around "longer" means nothing to me. Because the idea was original on THIS mmo and not that one means NOTHING to me. THAT doesn't make the money, or the profits, or the subscribers...and THAT is what I look at...and all i CARE about. Any opinion that doesnt support the REASONING behind the design with a majority of the opinion rather than ONE persons...is ABSOLUTELY useless.

Why i write so much? Why I rant? well.....this is my career hoss...i could talk for dayyyyyyysss about these kinda things ...and then some. Man does DREAM game theory and get up 2am and write down what come in he head an ting! It mad! ah love it Is also to pick alyuh brain and force men to startup argument....hear what they have to say, validate it and see if their ideas can actually make this industry better. So doh feel i not listening.....i just expecting

ANyway.....man have some Megaman 9 to peung U know.....i shouldnt be arguing in this state i in Man get a SERISOUS craving for Bhuljol and Bake lass night dred and i cyah even find a ISLAND person round by me o gawwwwwwd ah go ded!

[Lelouch]

"All one person does is troll and say "WoW is an awesome game" and the flames begin. But i doh see it on WoW! I dont even see ppl talking about other MMO's there." that is BS. I was on there and someone mentioned going to  a Dragonforce concert. 2 minutes later it was all about how "Emo's play Guild wars" and how WoW feeds ALL ur needs fer fantastical fullfillment. ALOT (not ALL or MOST) of ppl in WoW bitch endlessly about how Superior WoW is and is werse in real life. WoW players in real are d cockiest, most full of shyte bitches around. I hang out with a cuple EQ2 and L2 friends and we compare experiences fine. A WoW asshole comes in and first off : "U noe, in WoW we do it like *dis* and *dat* and it make more sense dat way". And is not one time i talkin bout. I talking bout enuff of dem 2 stereo type. Now dis is a Caribbean-based convo, but most WoW player are from d US (where I am now) and too many of them are assholes. And as far as I noe, in Guild Wars, we generally try to shut up d arsehole who starts MMO-bashing (WoW or not). d noobs like to but there are MANY mature Guild Wars Vets who generally dont like dat kind of shyte.

And yes I am a Tolkien-whore. But u noe wat? LOTRO is about CONTENT o f LORE not d EXACT  lore itself. I WANT to kill a friggin Balrog. I want to go into Moria and cross d bridge of Khazad-dum. Dat's wat make LOTR great and LOTRO so amazing for ME and d rest of d Tolkien base (which outnumbers ALL MMO subscribers by alot.) Now I dint say LOTRO hav d biggest fan base. Just Tolkien Lore and dats what LOTRO brings to us; let us go thru Tolkien's genius in a player-friendly way. Yes, LOTRO is basically ALl PvE but dats wat i got into it for. GREAT PvE. I have Guild Wars for GREAT PvP.

[Lelouch]

"And i have recently resigned myself to the inescapable fact that noobs run the world.. so no bother fighting it any longer"

Hoss i agree, but is realli not dat NOOBS run it; we ALL START as noobs, but we GREW UP (in an MMO sense). But is more dat d newer generations of noobs fail to grow up to a MATURE gamer status. So is d unevolutionary noobs dat run, cuz we were ALL noobs...once upon a time.....

[shivadee]

You alone not in the US padna....Im in San Deigo.....and ppl know the job i do. You ARE right about the people you meet outside of WoW sometimes. No offense or anything but a Dragonforce concert isnt something i would totally consider a "complete" gaming environment. My experiences start from in these MMO's ive played to rolling through E3, Comiccon, midnight campouts for release, Blizzcon, GDC, Siggraph conferences etc and etc and etc. All these places I go is to experiment on gamers (and talk to devs and get interviews). See what they are interested in, see what catches their eye, provoke a thought from them if i manage talk to them. And these conferences and conventions are THE places to see these people as they are

 I dont know how old you are though:(but you see them ppl that PLAY pvp in wow, and them teenagers .....could drop in a f*cking fire and burn...seriously...THESE water the MC out of this game..but this is the choice of the developers too...not just the gamers. For launch nights for Burning Crusade and at Blizzcon i had to STEADY hand men their @ss about their reasoning behind their beliefs whey act elitist. STEADY. I dont defend WoW when you have a bunch of ppl bashing LOTRO, or Guild Wars....i want to hear their reason why. If they "just doh like it because im used to this..." in WoW then i just burn them down right there. That is not NEARLY a reason, ignorance is not a reason.  They talk big in a forum or a in game chat..but irl they cyah stand up for one shyt irl...not on they best day.

 But when you MEET a mature WoW player dread....i mean a man who can go into detail about phase fights, debuff stack values, raid theory and strategy. These men like Nihilum who literally do the fight from SCRATCH because they are the first ppl in the mc world to see this sh!t officially, No friggin boss mods, no way of telling what happening......hoss...yuh go see friggin knowledge for MMO drop. People who managing their guild for the past 3-4 years. Who have moved from EQ to Lineage to L2 to this for whatever reason...and will OBVIOUSLY move on 1 year from now when WoW dies....say next year xmas when Blizzard announces their next MMO they already working on.

Men post in game "burning crusade was horrible i hope they dont screw up the expansion like they did this game"....well hoss....wtmc you still here playing the game? What yuh too fat to get up off yuh @ss to go do something else? Yuh doh have a job and life and this is all yuh does do? what really is yuh reasoning behind that pointless and useless statement that wont change the course of what anyone will ever think about this game? Or you just 12 years old and saying sh!t to get attention? Which is it? Or all of the above. So yes.....on just about any MMO you go on you find fools like that. What you gonna do? You QQ with them they like the attention and go for round 2, so you just ignore them. Why waste time trying to educate a person with no education? And fools like this all over the place.

These posts on the forums here on GATT is some kixx some serious talk. You can obviously tell where. Plus on top of that Crixx and i steady at each other tail bout MMO's, but he damn well know i willing to see L2 one day how its MEANT to be played and see what its about...one day.....eventually.....maybee

It doesnt really matter to me if you or anyone doesnt like WoW. I mean liking it isnt affecting my or your game style, so it doesnt matter and im not out to convince anyone to like or dislike anything. The friggin game FULL as it is......SERIOUSLY. On a larger scale you gonna see this WoTLK expansion drop and just like when BC dropped Gamespot and IGN will write the same thing "here is the review, not like its going to change anyone's opinion". Which is true! So what?! As a gamer you dont need to care bout that, because it doesnt affect YOUR style. On MY scene however i hadda figure out why the hell ppl do this and do that instead of what was supposed to happen.

As for the noobs....boy i go burn them all down. They all full of talk, they cant walk the walk....they dont put in the time or the effort. And you can easily tell if that is their speed. For the 3rd time i might very well go back to LOTRO or another MMO. In all honesty the 3rd time around for gearing up and raiding has me kinda meh. Im excited to see the new content...level to cap....do a couple raids and im done with WoW..i mean after 3 years of doing this i want to see something new. I've been raid leader and class officer for quite a while, so i do have experience. It doesnt matter the game, its being able to know your shYt and motivate people to do it.

I HAVE wanted to see something new for a while, I tried LOTRO was in Beta and then got the game on release, but didnt know anyone in the game so it wasnt much fun for me. I am willing to try it again if you want to help a LOTRO Noob out and let me see the place. The game looks AMAZING..so i hope to see some great dungeons and raids. Im ALL about PvE. I tried Hellgate with Kaizen...we friggin level cap in a weekend...and that game was boring. Matrix Online......lord.....it had such a nice idea then a lame, boring as hell grind like CoH/CoV. Tabula Rassa......had so much interest in that game even after playing the Beta then got into the game and realized this eh no FPS MMO, it just fail. Too broken with design....with a character design tree that just restricts your player. Warhammer.....i DEFFINITELY want to go back to this game, but i want to give it some time for the devs to fix the bugs, the leveling issues and the design. So when i DO step back into it, its all good. AoC....what an idea, to use up, up, down, left, right buttons for attack combos in an mmo.....what a BAD IDEA...i mean spending half the time watching your combo buttons and not watching and learning the mc fight because you have to memorize some attack. And cone healing ONLY is fail. Guild Wars i tried, and actually enjoyed until "wait....im in a big instance.....not an open MMO...." and i didnt like that atall. PvP is something in MMO's im kinda meh about. Its something that is NOW beginning to grow on a large scale.

Dark Age of Camelot had the ULTIMATE pVp elements in it. THAT was PvP sah. But i have not seen pvp on that level yet Warhammer is made by the same people, and i believe that that LEVEL is arriving again....and soon!

Dead serious bout the LOTRO invite....add me to MSN, we go voicechat etc and setup. lemme know.

[Lelouch]

Wat wat! dat sound like a rell plan. Bit o' bad timing though. Rite now I swamped with projects left-right-and-center. I eh guh be truly done till d end of Nov so me and gaming taking a break; I even "lending" mi PS3 to a friend so I wont play. But I will be bakk to gaming form around thanksgiving. I will let u noe more den.
On another note, if u wanted to noe, I am 21 yrs and a Jr. in university. Quick background; grew up in NY. Moved BAKK to TnT wen I was almost 11. Moved bakk to d states wen I started University. I border b/w casual and hardcore gaming depending on mi schedule (which includes a football (not "soccer") team on weekends and a bit of programming tutoring). There's some insight into moi.
Also, I didnt say I was at a DF concert (blasphemy!!!). I said there was a convo bout it. Thats how that thread of convo started IN GAME in WoW. I agree bout d DAoC and PvP, but I does be disappinted dat ppl dont accredit Guild Wars with d PvP quality it has. D PURELY skill base of GW PvP to ME is wat makes it so awesome. U dont hav to play fer 400 hrs and get d beast skills and bess weaponsets or armour to be a beast; all u need is to noe ur own skill and maximize on it. I don't see d focus on COMPLETELY balancing PvP in any game out dere rite now.
Anyways, wil hit u up on dis LOTRO lime wen I get a good cuple hours to spare hoss. Peace!

[BeoBear]

I find this entire thread to be a waste of time. You all just spinning top in mud. At the end of the day, people are going to play what appeals to them. But since everyone wants to throw in a two cents, I want to big up Ultima Online , and I stand by it, that Ultima Online ranks in (for me) as one of the best mmo's ever created. (before EA took over and f*@#ed it up the ass).

I'm sure that anyone who played Ultima Online back in the early days '98 --> '02 would agree with me. That game didn't spoon feed you like the way mmo's do now. There was nothing like pansy-ass bind on equip. If you wanted to rock that bad ass weapon outside down, better roll with a crew cause if you dead, it gone. Player made items were the most used items in the game, the crafting was excellent, and because players actually used crafted items a lot, and lost them just as often, it stimulated a real player driven economy.  The only grinding you ever did was with a mortar and pestle to make potions. Because there was no 'levelling up' the community was not segregated like they are in all these new mmos. I think that played a massive part in thier success. Veterans and Newbies alike were allowed everywhere.

You didn't need a guild, or the best gear in the game to venture down into the deepest level of a dungeon, to experience all the game had to offer. Back in those days, most of the groups were social,never forced, grouping not cause they *had* to, but cause it was just more fun! The skill system has yet to be topped. There has not been another like it. There were no fixed classes, you could have mixed and matched any skills you liked, learn new ones, forget old ones (but  be a master of only 7 at any one time).  Give everyone the option to be anything they wanted and let the community balance itself. Brilliant.

I could go on and on but how great it was but again, that's just my opinion. I guess the whole industry changed after EQ came out, and people realised hey, we can make TONS more money with this, just need to find a way to appeal to a broader audience than core gamers. And here we are today.

I've played a lot of mmo's so i'm not just talkin out my ass. Ultima Online, EQ, Asheron's Call, DAoC, DDO, WoW, LoTR, Age of Conan.

I'm waiting for the day a game comes out that embraces the UO style of MMO gaming, and I'll be there. Till then , I'm spending my days playing Warhammer Online (vortex server, order side character named Niala / Ordo)


Man I miss the old school days

(Editors note: This rant was brought to you by my brother, an esteemed and far too disgruntled gamer.)