Hey guys welcome

[W1nTry]

I somewhat disagree there EK. Please qualify what you define as lean mass.

[Exar_Kun]

Lean mass is how much you weigh less the weight of fat you're carrying. So someone at 200lbs with 10% body fat would be carrying 180lbs of lean mass. Obviously this includes bones, organs etc.
When we're talking about increases in lean mass we're talking about the increase in mass due to dry muscle and the associated water and glycogen being stored in said muscle.

[W1nTry]

Ok, we're on the same page. That being said, fat burning is directly connected to muscle mass. The development of lean muscle tissue better enables a person to burn calories and thereby reduce fat. Developing lean mass versus say bulking as bodybuilders refer to it, requires different training regiments altogether, different diets, etc. I would say it is practical for someone to develop lean muscle tissue whilst losing fat as it's exactly what i've been doing for the past year. The hierarchy of energy sources used by the body is affected by the type of training regiment and diet. You can gear a program towards losing more fat whilst gaining muscle albeit at a slower rate. Nonetheless, overall increase in muscle directly affects decrease capabilities of fat loss.

[TriniXaeno]

I agree with exar.

Any substantial cardio program hinders the ability to gain mass.

If you're doing cardio, it tells the body it needs to get lean and be able to endure.

If you're doing weight training, it tells the body it needs to bulk and get strong.

Combining both at the same time is counter productive towards gaining weight but will work just fine if you're just looking to be healthy.

I've been told several times to seriously cut back on the cardio if I want to see the benefits of the strength training.

lol @ genetics. Yeah, that's 85% of the battle right there yes. Some girls I know look fit as fiddles and they don't even see inside the gym. Others, working out right through and still have overweight frames.

Genetics idmc.

[Exar_Kun]

Edit: Post reply is to Win

What you're missing though from that argument is efficiency and speed. Building muscle is a very slow process. Newbie gains aside, a realistic goal for a natural trainee is about 10 lbs of dry muscle per year, which might work out to 13-14 lbs lean total.
Each additional lb of muscle is only going to increase calorie consumption by only a little bit. Depending on the muscle and a few other factors there is evidence that you'll see only 15 calories per day burn by each additional pound. So at the end of that year you're burning 150 extra calories per day. That's just a few minutes of HIIT, ten ounces of coca cola etc . Obviously there's more going on here than just a straight mathematical relationship but this is a practical reality to look at things from.

I think I should clear up the term 'bulking'. Bulking is exactly that, the quest to make increases in lean mass. It is not a quest to get fat or something.
As I said, you need surplus calories to build muscle. Indisputable fact. However the amount of surplus you can use per day varies, and depends on many factors with genetics being one of them. The kind of bulking you're referring to is probably the dirty bulk where the muscle gain is accompanied by alot of fat gain. This is a simply an approach used by bodybuilders to ensure that they use the max amount of surplus calories per day for muscle building. because anything over the max amount usable goes to fat.

Anabolics allows bodybuilders to do this since they can use anabolics to very quickly cut this fat off later while losing almost no muscle mass. Naturals can't do that. Enter the clean bulk, which is what I do and have been advocating. You keep your calories above maintenance but not above max. Obviously this max value will fluctuate and you can't count calories down to the number so you'll never get that max muscle building effect happening but you will reduce fat production.

As far as building lean mass while losing fat, yes it is possible. But it isn't optimal. Again, the body is very complex but from a straight macro standpoint because of the calorie requirements each way it's impossible. But your body doesn't determine muscle building (surplus) and fat loss (deficit) like a batch processing program. it happens day by day, hour by hour.
So you could certainly adjust your diet so that you're in surplus Mon, tues, Wed, Thurs and then in deficit the rest of the week. You will gain muscle those four days, then you'll lose some of that same muscle and also fat  on the other three. But seesawing like that will not let your body work optimally.

Just one thing to note: As the body sheds fat you can actually look bigger while losing weight. Also you can gain fat and find yourself looking more muscular when in fact it's just fat padding the muscle on your body making you look bulky. I monitor my progress using the scale, circumference measurements and skinfold measurement to estimate bodyfat.

[W1nTry]

Now onto the next stage, some pics ppls. It's always a motivational factor when you see other ppls success.

[Eroo]

I agree with W1ntry. Motivation is the key.

I'm a big fatso - 5'10 - 200lbs. Yes I'm lazy but my problem has always been in the past if I don't see quick results I quit. Any recommendations on the best exercises to lose weight fast.

[Crixx_Creww]

i have to disagree with exar
when you say each lb of muscle is only going to increase calorie consumption by a little bit is not true.

Thats true in a PASSIVE sense, where muscle burns calories passively.

BUT the more muscle yu have, the more work you can do, the more work you do, the more calories you consume.

ANd as for losing weight as well as increasing muscle mass. Again its not true that it cant be done together, in fact it SHOULD be done together.

Muscle has its own energy source, glycogen. Which is a richer energy source than the food you consume, its like highly refined energy so its potent.

You can reduce your caloric intake, to but your body in a state of calorie burning, which of course makes your body target muscle first.

SO if you tailor your diet right, and consume 1.25 to 1.5 grams of protein per lb of weight, you will be able to gain, not LOSE muscle mass while having your body burn up calories.



Ok i wanted to do this better, like in my own thread, but ill say it here first.

What i first found in muscle & fitness, which my doctor also greatly approves as a diabetic and also since iam now on insulin, a side effect of taking insulin is increased muscle mass.


This is how my new diet is.

         FIBRE                PROTEIN            CARBS         FAT
<--------------------> <--------------><---------><--->


THIS has allowed me to lose 25 pounds since late january this year!
i also bought a fancy scale that electrically measures my muscle mass,body fat,bone mass and density,water mass and a host of other things.

Ive lost 25 pounds and gained 5 pounds of muscle.


The diet is simple but very malleable. I consume the different food groups at different times of day in different combinations to achieve my combined goal of losing fat and building muscle, and since those goals are complimentary, iam succeeding like crazy.

In the gym my goal is to lose weight and develop muscle.
So, i work my largest muscle groups EACH AND EVERYTIME I GO TO THE GYM.

i.e legs, chest and back.

i do lots of reps at low weight when iam doing all three muscle groups.

THen later in my workout when iam focusing on certain groups, i do low reps, at high weight BUT i utilise what i call "muscle virtulisation" where i focus HEAVILY on slowwwllyyy curling which ever muscle iam working, i dont even work my arms out, iam not trying to get big show biceps, until i drop down to my goal weight of 200 lbs at the end of THIS YEAR.

So when iam doing my chest exercises, i slowwwllyyy push the bar out focusing on form visualising pulling my elbows together with my chest, instead of simply pushing the bar off my chest, which would wastefully utilisize alot of bicep strength.

THat is the concept i picked up from muscle and fitness.
you can do less reps and get tremendous gains this way.

I think ill scan the relevant info and make it available so you can see and understand what iam saying better.

But trusttt me, alongside the nutrional tricks ive been doing, this method has me in an almost constant state of repair
AND I LOVEEEEEEE IT!!
EACH AND EVERY TIME I GO TO THE GYM I GET THAT BURN AND IAM GROWING!! RAAWWRRRR

for the past week ive been down from an ingrown toe nail, iam diabetic so i have to take it seriously or face trinidad hospitals and have it chopped off right lol.

BUt ive been missing the gym like a crack hore, lol and iam not juicing or anything yayz

[Crixx_Creww]

eroo

if you live in the west

why not join west mall gym with me and my friends
ill show you how ive been able to lose weight and be motivated by it.

[TriniXaeno]

great post crixx and I'm loving the info.

one small clarification, in the case of gaining mass, as opposed to just "lean muscle".

Remember, in your case, you're attempting to drop overall weight. That is fine with cardio + resistance training.

If in the reverse situation, you are trying to increase mass. That cardio will hinder the mass building potential of the resistance training. The reverse isn't true....that is to say, the resistance training does not hinder the fat burning effect of the cardio.

Hope that clarifies.

[Crixx_Creww]

i guess if yu want to PASSIVELY increase mass, then you can forego the cardio because it does have a leaning effect. But if you want to have REAL MUSCLE the kind that can and DOES do work.

THen you shouldnt forego cardio.
Ive learnt that there are different types of muscle and yu can have big huge muscles, that is only good for explosive power, then yu can have that big strong muscle that will give you retarded amounts of stamina and power, but u wont be agile.

You can have a mix of those muscle, probably wont LOOK as impressive as just straight up MASS but u will probably appreciate your body more if you choose which type/types you want to develop.


Also, the more muscle yu have, the more strain on your heart and other organs, so i think it would be a BAD idea to ignore your cardio simply because it will put yu in a calorie burning state.

BTw, days before a big show, body builders do cardio to make their muscles look  ripped and blood filled.

You cant get the impressive look with out the cardio =^_^= so dont ignore it.


Oh and again btw, i saw on door to the gym there is a body building contest at the end of the month i think on the 29th.

THink iam gonna go, gonna be great source of info an ish.

As for supplimentation, the fitness store in long circular is great, that guy has great products as well as great advice.

Star light drugs has some of THEEE best whey products and suppliments ive scene in trinidad

[Redfish]

Hi guys after reading through I see that the nutrition/diet part is heavily covered.

I would like to suggest a program for those who are self motivated to try out. Many may be familiar with it on ads on television, it's called P90X workout.

Now in high school I did track i.e. 100m,110m Hurdles,200m, 4X100m relay, High Jump and Long Jump.

I seriously fell off my training on moving to trinidad for school but in looking for a means to do workouts without having to go to a gym I found P90X and after doing just the 15min Ab wourkout yes 15mins!! I felt like I just did a full day workout when I used to train in my Athletics Club.

Here's a pic I took of myself this year without doing any real workouts. I have a high metabolism so it has prevented me from getting a pot belly.

I typically just do situps until I feel so much pain I can't do anymore( I find using a set number doesn't challenge me again) and push ups to the point where my arms tremble with pain then I stop.

Skipping while running on the spot is quite a serious cardio workout, it seems simple but try skipping while running on the spot for 5mins straight and tell me how you feel after lol.

Here's a pic I took of myself like Jan this year. I weigh about 170lbs but I wanna hit 200lbs max cause I think I'm skinny lol

[W1nTry]

P90X is a metabolism enhancer or something? Cause I am a firm DIS-Believer in using fatburners, metabolism enhancers, etc.

[Crixx_Creww]

ok
i think the pics thing is a BAD idea

omfg gay porn ahhhh noeez my eyes >.<


i saw the ads for the p90x thing and couldnt trust it cause it was paid advertising crap but if yur doing it and it works kudos.

But again, a system like that will get yu cut and lean but not buff you out.

Muscle= Resistance training + Genetics+ Nutrition.

You skinny people are always trying to gain weight like its a hard ting
pfft

noobs, gaining weight so easy
lol


P90x is an aerobic exercise system, mostly body weight exercise with some resistance training


as for hating on the pills.

well, it depends on your goals.
I recently used something reccommended to me as a diabetic cause its all natural and wouldnt affect my blood sugar with stimulants.

As such yu dont feel that buzz you used to get with say stacker 2 aka gods gift to weight loss ephedra.
lol


Yu want to know the secret to weight loss pills??

Yu have to take them in combination with other types of weight loss and metabolism enhancers for them to really work.

An expensive endeavour, but if it is your GOAL in life to loose weight NOW , like say to save your life.

It is an option

[W1nTry]

Well discretion is the better part of valour... or something so... pics are fine, just make sure it's NOSFW content: NOT Only Suitable For Women content... O_o

Wham crixx, got some issues in the security dept? LMAO

[Crixx_Creww]

lol @ security no

i just dont want nobody lookin at a thread i create and thinking wtf is this gay porn ish that crixx trying to promote!!

NO SETTA PICS OF MAN IN DEY FLIKKIN DRAWS OR SPANDEX OR OIL DONG OR NONE OF THAT!!

ah tired tell andro bout dat ish on facebook oh lord steups

[Redfish]

LOL so should I take down the pic? Sorry if I caused any trouble

[Crixx_Creww]

nah, ill just shield my eyes everytime i come in this thread...

and ill log on as someone else yes
lol

[Redfish]

LoL ok then. I think once we keep those who have tights etc from putting up pics *cringes* we safe.

Carry on

[Exar_Kun]

I'll try to punch holes in some of your 'facts' Crixx. Not gonna take too much time doing this though because I know from experience that even with a million links I'll never convince you, so I'll try to convince everyone else.
However a couple take home points:

1) That super slow lifting thing really isn't all that good. In fact it's crap.


The scope of this article prevents me from analyzing each of these studies individually, so instead I'll summarize them (Greer et al.; Caterisano et al.; Blount et al., 2003). Sixteeen weeks of supervised textbook SS training did not improve: blood pressure, aerobic or anaerobic capacities, or muscle mass. Lower body strength increased by as much as a Traditional Style (TS) group, but muscular endurance increased much more than the TS group. Interestingly, the TS group actually had a decrease in muscular endurance because the rep range used by this group (8-12) was ideal for hypertrophy and beneficial for strength rather than targeting endurance.

So it seems pretty clear that there is no advantage to SS training when it comes to muscle mass, fat loss, strength, anaerobic capacity, metabolic rate, aerobic fitness, or safety. This makes it inappropriate for athletes, bodybuilders, and the elderly.

So who would benefit from SST? Well, it seems like momentum-free training could benefit novice trainers, but do you really need a 10-second concentric to eliminate momentum and promote proper form? No, of course not. In fact, a novice trainer is probably at the highest risk for holding their breath during a prolonged muscle contraction, so I’d advise against this type of training for "newbies."

I guess this leaves SST open for use by people who want to improve strength and muscular endurance but not muscle mass, and for some reason want to make themselves slow. If this applies to you, please contact me because I'd love to see what kind of freak would want this. Some of you may be asking: "But what about the scientific theory behind SST?" In answer I refer you to the wisdom of Homer Simpson: "Sure it works in theory, but then again, even communism works… in theory."

David J. Barr CSCS

"Super Slow Training, a form of low velocity resistance training, has gained significant popularity in the last decade, with the lay press also demonstrating a profound interest in this unconventional type of physical training.

"However, a lack of research studies has resulted in the inability to confirm or disprove the many publicized benefits of Super Slow training. Only recently have appropriate research designs emerged to test the efficacy of a Super Slow program. Although it is still too early to draw formal conclusions, it seems that Super Slow Training will make you good at one thing: doing Super Slow Training.

"Unfortunately, this has virtually no practical application since almost no activities of daily living are purposely performed at such a slow speed. In addition, the typical conditioning goals of an athlete (e.g. strength/power gains, reduction of the explosive strength deficit, increases in speed, and ultimately the development of agility) will not be optimised by Super Slow Training.

"Although Super Slow Training is certainly better than doing nothing, it is doubtful that future studies will show Super Slow to be a "magic bullet" in terms of developing muscular strength."

    — Beau Greer, MA, CSCS, HFI Florida State University


2)Those electronic body fat scales are nonsense. So sorry but it's true. They don't work properly. If you want a proper bodyfat measurement then you need to do a water test with a doctor. Or the best approximation is by using skinfold calipers.

3) Rep ranges. here's what Alwyn Cosgrove had to say:
Beginners:

      Strength zone should be 6-8 reps, hypertrophy should be 10-12 reps.

Intermediates:

      Strength zone should be 3-5 reps, hypertrophy should be 8-10 reps

Advanced (three years or more of solid training):

      Strength zone should be 2-4 reps, hypertrophy should be 6-8 reps.

Ive learnt that there are different types of muscle and yu can have big huge muscles, that is only good for explosive power, then yu can have that big strong muscle that will give you retarded amounts of stamina and power, but u wont be agile.

You can have a mix of those muscle, probably wont LOOK as impressive as just straight up MASS but u will probably appreciate your body more if you choose which type/types you want to develop.

Absolute nonsense Crixx. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And if you read it in M&F I can see now why everyone laughs at most muscle mags online.

As for supplimentation, the fitness store in long circular is great, that guy has great products as well as great advice.

Body Glow? They used to be in Price Plaza too till they closed a couple months ago. Ya, they're some great guys. Huge metalheads too. The guy got all happy when I went in with my Amon Amarth t-shirt once.
The best whey protein you can get in Trinidad would be Optimum Gold. If you want something more complete Muscle Milk is great too.
Stay away from Nitrotech and Celltech. You have all been warned.