AMD prepares three-core processorsTri and tri againBy Charlie Demerjian: Saturday 15 September 2007, 12:58THERE HAVE BEEN back channel stories floating around for weeks about tri-core AMD CPUs, but nothing solid. The rumours have been picking up more steam, and now they are finally solid: AMD is doing a three-core chip.The first thing that comes to mind is bad yields, but I am told this is not the case for the three-core product lines. There may be some salvage done on bad quads, but that is not the overriding reason to do this.The main reason is marketing, it seems AMD is learning from ATI. Most non-top SKU GPUs are simply top SKU die with features turned off, and if you look at the success of people unlocking that, you will see that it is far more than salvage.AMD is probably doing this for two reasons; the lesser being salvage, the more important one being that Intel can't do it. Intel would have a far harder time making a tri-core part until Nehalem next September - it is easy to fuse off a core, far harder to MCM disparate cores.This will allow AMD to come out with a lot of mid-range SKUs, having a complete 1-4 core range servicing every market. It also allows for complete market differentiation with a year or so's window into a place where Intel is not.On the technical side, this is pretty trivial to do: three to core four is just a fuse to blow. What it gets you is a whole lot of choices. Remember the smooth run of SKUs, that was the beginning. If your clocks are thermally constrained, having three instead of four cores gives you a bin or two of speed. Given how few games use a second core fully, this might be a real win.As far as money goes, assuming there is no salvage, three cores could still be a profit win, but it could be a loss. The selling price of a three core is greater than the price of a dual, and if that difference is greater than the manufacturing cost difference between a dual and a quad, AMD wins. If it is not, or people who would buy a quad buy a tri, then they lose.Overall, it ends up with greater flexibility for AMD. How the firm uses it will determine whether or not this is a win, loss or draw. In any case, look for it on the consumer side, not the server first, and possibly moving over if it works out. µ
AMD's Darkside........what could it be??
AMD Phenom 9000 is quad core, and 8000 is tri-coreAMD Spider Launch Slideware glideware sideware hardwareBy Theo Valich: Tuesday, 13 November 2007, 1:07 AM IN THIS FOUR-PART series we will reveal details of this week's AMD launch, widely slated to be a lifeline for the struggling firm.We'll disclose how quiet/noisy they will be, prices, positioning and basically all there is to know about the launch of AMD's Spider Platform, as AMD is calling it.Thus, AMD is launching its beasts to quench the thirst of people. Spider consists of AMD Phenom - the X4/X3/X2 naming convention is dead and Phenom FX processors, 790X/790FX, which are Crossfire and CrossfireX chipsets, and of course, Radeon HD 3850 and 3870 graphic cards.Looking at a whole computer, this is the first time that a manufacturer is launching a complete 65nm and sub-65nm component, since all key parts - the Phenom, 770/780/790X/790FX, RV670 - are all made at 65nm or 55nm.In comparison, launches of from Intel and Nvidia have at least one component manufactured in 90nm or even 130nm. This is quite important in terms of both die size and the thermal characteristics.AMD is chanting its "Customer Centric Innovation" mantra like there's no tomorrow, but in all sincerity, that mantra does not go hand in hand with the statements we've heard from some AMD executives.Also, the fact that the company is publicly launching two SKUs, while there are three SKUs two PCIe 2.0, one AGP part. AMD is , skipping the on 3850 with 512MB and 3870 with 1GB of video memory. A price affordable Black Edition instead of Phenom FX would also be what customers want.AMD Phenom is manufactured in 65nm process at Fab36 in Dresden, andthe main features are something that it calls “Native Quad-Core”, HyperTransport 3.0, and DDR2-1066 memory support. Quite frankly, we care only about the number of cores, not threads, n Windows Task Manager, but that's a marchitectural quibble. AMD is relying on the fact that it is better to provide a memory controller that creates the possibility that a user gets 8GB of DDR2-1066 for the equal amount he would have to shell out for 2-3 GB of DDR3 memory. Of course, the biggest problem that AMD marketing dept has is showing its advantages to the general public, an area where this company failed miserably in the past.On AMD's roadmaps, the 65nm Phenom series fits into the middle, with 45nm Phenoms coming in the middle of 2008, and a complete new core coming in 2009. This core will be an answer to Intel's Nehalem, but what AMD is not saying is what Fusion will be used for. If you think that it will be only Bulldozer cores plus some R7xx-based Radeon GPU, you're quite wrong. The Opterons will end up fused as well, the most interesting part will be bringing GPUs with HyperTransport 3.0 and beyond put into the chips themselves.When it comes to the actual line-up, AMD is launching Phenom 9000 series with three models, 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 GHz. They all use HT 3.0 with a link speed of 3.6 GHz. It is quite interesting to see the “FSB” clock overtaking the actual physical clock of the CPU cores, but AMD has to pay the price for milking on 90nm process and shifting engineers from 65nm development onto a previous generation.Phenom FX will be a single product at launch, but that will not happen on November 19th, but rather during December, as a sort of Yuletide present. Somehow, AMD needs to put a 3GHz part into this year, but if no volumes can be made, these guys are set for rough times. During the first quarter of next year - probably around CeBIT 2008, the Phenom 8000 series will appear. Phenom 8000 is nothing more but Tollman, a Tri-Core part, the Agena minus one core . So, if the 9000 series was known as Agena, Phenom FX-8x parts are known as Agena FX.Phenom X2 has been canned, and the part will be known as the Athlon 6000 series.PerformanceWhen it comes to performance, AMD will allow hacks to tap into Phenoms for the very first time , so you will be able to see just how high can 3DMark06 score go in CrossFireX configurations.AMD's slideware hides the actual performance numbers, but the lads put AMD Phenom 9500 (2.2 GHz) system as the 100%, baseline performance system. In further slideware, it was revealed that Overall Performance (Office Productivity + Digital Media + Gaming) will take Phenom 9700 5.4% faster than the 9500 (2.2 GHz), while competing Core 2 Quad Q6600 scores 2.5% more than 2.2 GHz. In Office Productivity itself, 9700 is 5.7%, while Q6600 is 3.2% faster. Digital Media puts Intel on top with 10.4% advantage over baseline mode, while clock-per-clock competitor was 8.5% faster than baseline. In gaming, 9700 system scores 2.2% faster results than baseline, while Q6600 is 3.6% slower than baseline.Confused? We don't blame you. Real scores are ones that will matter, while these aggregated scores can be tweaked to show one or other side winning, depending are we seeing black slides with green chars, or blue slides with white characters. µ
AMD delays Phenom 2.4 GHz due to TLB errataB2 rev K10 CPUs feature L3 cache miss flawBy Theo Valich: Sunday, 18 November 2007, 5:29 PMAMD WILL ONLY LAUNCH the Phenom 9500 and 9600. Even though the channel already got its hands on the Phenom 9700 (2.4 GHz) part, it will have to be pulled off from the shelves.In a weird deja-vu, it turns out that the company found an errata in the TLB (Transition Lookaside Buffer), just like Intel did earlier this year with complete Core marchitecture. However, unlike Intel, that has a micro-code update function in all of its CPUs, AMD is forced to delay the introduction of the part.This comes as a huge hit to AMD, at the time that evrything was looking somewhat better. On paper and in practice, its Chipsets Series 7 are world's finest at the moment - PCIe Gen2 implementation is near-perfect, old Athlon 64 X2 parts got a new life on them (insane HyperTransport overclocking options), while Radeon HD 3850 and 3870 are once again sparking a huge war in world of 3D graphics.However, it turns out that the processor division of AMD botched this time around. We asked AMD to provide us with official statement on this huge problem, and we got a reply back from the firm:"The Translation Lookaside Buffer (TLB) errata is an L3 protocol issue causing a system hang when running certain client workload applications independent of platform. AMD is immediately introducing an updated BIOS which will correct the TLB errata".This problem was found during speed-binning the B2 revision processors, and this was the cause for the Phenom FX 3.0 GHz delay. It turns out that some CPUs running at 2.4 GHz or above in some benchmarking combinations, while all four cores are running at 100% load, can cause a system freeze.While benchmark software vendors had some problems detecting how new memory controller work - both SiSoft Sandra XII and Everest 4.20 were returning single-channel results, regardless of memory controller being used in SC/DC, dual-72-bit or 144-bit- we are still shocked to learn of this situation, that will end up with dire consequences for AMD's management.AMD already issued a fix to all of its motherboard/system partners, so if you already own a 790FX motherboard or plan to buy a Phenom system, make sure to update the BIOS. 9500 (2.2 GHz) and 9600 (2.3 GHz) parts are unaffected by the errata. Some 9500/9600 parts may even be overclocked to 2.6, 2.8, 2.9, 3.0 GHz and they will have no problems whatsoever, while some will have this error. In any case, you should update the BIOS of your shiny new Phenom system is clocked higher than 2.4 GHz.According to sources close to the company, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, 3.0 and faster parts will appear on the market when the B3 revision comes to life. B3 revision is key CPU stepping for AMD's future, since it is considered a speed-bin of B1 and B2. With this errata fixed, Phenoms will have no problems competing against Intel in clock-per-clock action, but it will bring serious disappointment to AMD fanboys and market itself. They are probably blubbing already.Now, we wonder did AMD learn a lesson here and will the company put micro-code update function in its future cores such as Bulldozer, Fusion and so on, or will the Texas part of the company still consist out of 9 to 5vers who will go home at 5PM and not fix problems that are causing this company to bleed. µ
Here's what really frightens us: the way AMD has priced Phenom leaves Intel with a great opportunity to increase prices with Penryn without losing the leadership position. Intel could very well introduce the Core 2 Quad Q9300 (2.33GHz) at $269 and still remain quite competitive with Phenom, moving the Q9450 into more expensive waters. Intel has't announced what it's doing with Penryn pricing in Q1, but our fear is that a weak showing from Phenom could result in an upward trend in processor prices. And this is exactly why we needed AMD to be more competitive with Phenom.It's tough to believe that what we're looking at here is a farewell to the K8. When AMD first released the Athlon 64, its performance was absolutely mind blowing. It kept us from recommending Intel processors for at least 3 years; Phenom's arrival, however, is far more somber. Phenom has a difficult job to do, it needs to keep AMD afloat for the next year. Phenom is much like the solemn relative, visiting during a time of great sorrow within the family; let's hope for AMD's sake that it can lift spirits in the New Year.
GG prices are gonna start climbing again... as much of a fan I am of AMD, I have to say that disappointment doesn't begin to capture it... let's hope it never gets back as bad as 12k PCs that can barely do word processing on the most recent bloated OS MS has to offer... sad times ahead quite possibly...
