PM Brown: U.S. is Britain's 'most important' ally

[Exar_Kun]

The U.S. always cared about the countries that they 'meddled' with.
I don't think there's a single person in Central America who doesn't believe the U.S. had their best interests at heart when they were actively supporting brutal dictators.

[Grim Reaper]

George Washington was a Freedom Fighter, and I can make a good guess about which argument this will lead to since I've had it many times, and it just about always comes up in a situation like this.

I know everything about the Criteria that has to be met and all the historical empires that were once Superpowers themselves. Historically, all Superpowers eventually faded and I agree with that. So what's your point? I still don't see how that proves that the US will follow, lets wait for it to happen before we go on predicting the future with no proof whatsoever, other than expecting the history of former superpowers to have the same destiny as current ones.

The U.S. always cared about the countries that they 'meddled' with.
I don't think there's a single person in Central America who doesn't believe the U.S. had their best interests at heart when they were actively supporting brutal dictators.

Such a thing may never be known, unless we know what everyone really thought during that time. So to say that not a "single person" in Central America may have fully agreed with what the US was doing is a very baseless assumption.

[Grim Reaper]

I'm not attempting to predict the future btw, in fact nowhere in my post did I state that they will fail, but i AM saying that historically all superpowers fail. An that is a point that cannot be argued against as it's simply a statement of historical fact. And just for the record, Historical Data HAS been used to substantiate several theories over the years including the US, the US Federal Reserves uses Historical Data to calculate interest rates don't they?

You did say that "All superpowers eventually fail" here:

All superpwers eventually fail.

So since the US is a superpower it will eventually fail according to your above statement. Using historical data to calculate interest rates is one thing, but when we enter into the realm of discussing the rise and fall of empires or former superpowers, that is something totally different, and comparing them in this form is not something logical.

George Washington is a freedom fighter, and yes i agree with you (and no i am not being sarcastic). I agree with you because i am in full agreement with the principles under which the declaration of independence was signed. They believed that they deserved to be independent and not pay taxes to a foreign body that does not hodl their best interest at heart, and absolutely nothing is wrong with that, as long as you agree with them. On the flipside, I'm fairly certain the British government disagreed and considered this an act against the crown.

I agree with you too, along with what the British would have thought as well. However, The British Empire is to blame for many crimes with it's expansion to become the largest empire in history. And I don't only support the US for it's attempt to break away, but every country including those in Asia, Africa, the Pacific and the Caribbean which wanted to gain independence from the British Empire after they were forcibly conquered.

At the end of the day It's a matter of perspective, so to call the statement that "One man's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" 'not smart' is not advisable.
  And when does a person become a terrorist? at the end of the day it is another human being that makes the decision to consider a person or group 'terrorist supporters', so long story hsort, it's all a matter of perspective. After 9/11 i am not surprised at all that there is now no line distinguishing Islamic fundamentalists from terroists, but that doesn't mean i agree. The media in particular have made it their business to not even attempt to distinguish between the 2.

It may be a matter of perspective but it's whether the perspective is right or wrong/good or evil. Which is basically what I'm trying to prove here, just because one thinks what they are doing is right doesn't mean it's right. Perspective can be argued and proven wrong with facts or intelligent logical reasoning which can prove a flipside wrong.

I don't know why keep wasting time in arguments that will not lead anywhere. The mind of the intolerant is like the iris, the more light you let in it the more it will close.

And the mind of the delusional is like that of a blind person, no matter what you physically present before their eyes, they'll never see it.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

I'm shocked , never expected THIS argument to reach a trini gaming forum .

* TrinithereturnofGamez dives into argument

Bush fighting against EVIL ? I don't think you are any older than me, but i hope you are old enough to have learned a basic rule of life :

Violence begets Violence .

 And there is no such thing as a just war . While some wars must be fought for the greater good ,eg. WWII , all war ends with unnecessary suffering and death .

And you support BUSH? If you follow US news half as well as I do you'd know he's incompetent and corrupt . His whole administration reeks of bias and is self serving ,  can't bring anything to mind besides the tampering with the justice system , firing lawyers to get only certain people in.



Yes while Bin Laden's attack on the US was wrong, so was Bush's plan to invade Iraq.  By supporting the war on 'terror' so adamantly ,
The message you send is : a few thousand american lives are worth Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead , and millions loosing their homes .  Now thats bound to leave some people pissed .

Lets say  Muslim fundamentalists  ARE evil.. not just misguided people , like you , who wouldn't be a big problem if you treated them nicely..

Lets assume Bush is doing a good thing ... He's still mismanaging the whole situation.. and still an idiot . There was a recent BBC report than the NATO troops in Afghanistan need to be boosted , else all the progress with Taliban insurgents would start to slip .

Bush never finished the job in Afghanistan , he jumped headfirst into Iraq and now he doesn't have enough troops to take care of EITHER job .  He WAS informed that he needed 500 000 troops to secure Iraq and disregarded his advisers  .

Now you have a world with more terrorists than ever before , Bin Laden still free in the wild , and the US too bogged down to seriously deal with, say , North Korea invading the South and nuking Tokyo . (

You still support bush?

Thank God he's on the way out.

America the only hyper power ? pffft . The Bank of China just recently became the richest in the world . China already has nukes , the world's largest army , and the largest foreign reserves. The only thing they lack is the will to bully other countries with force.

 As it is , A Chinese-US war would probably end in a stalemate . If fought primarily over land , China would win , but suffer nasty damage from American Air and Sea power. Still , the world economy would evaporate cause everything is made in china.

If china decided it wanted to rule the world , it has the money , the technology (surpasses the US in nuclear reactor technology and other things) and the manpower to do it . Spend a little of that money on a better navy and air force , send a few million troops into overseas bases... Would make america look pathetic .


 Even if it never came to war , China will have surpassed the US in all other areas by 2050 at its currant rate of growth . India and a reformed russia won't be far behind , Maybe then we could all eat a little Humble Pie

[New Era Outlaw]

UGH. I have no idea just how American politics managed to find its way onto a Trinidadian forum. Seriously, I don't.

Now, before I go on a long rant about how I seriously don't give a rat's bare shaven a** about the 'War on Terror', here's somebody who can do that a hell of a lot better than me.

NSFW

http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants.htm


Go there and download "Iraq", and listen to what 2 has to say about the whole thing.
Warning, it is a very NSFW rant, so be warned.
As he once put it, the word "terrorism"? It has practically jumped the shark. Either way, I agree with 2 100% on the whole thing.


Oh, and Grim....seriously, SHUT UP.
I am seriously getting sick and tired of this superiority complex you are currently flaunting on the forums in front of everybody as of late. Jesus CHRIST, it's annoying.


And, in case you haven't already realised, this is a gaming forum. Sure, there are a few things other than games that we discuss here, but GEEZ. What the hell would we really care about things like this, sometimes? All I know is, ever since this "War on Terror" BULLS**T started on the forums, things have gotten beyond annoying around here.

[Grim Reaper]

I support Bush at what he's doing, I only wish he'd intensify what he started. In fact, that is my only wish to see what Bush does now before his term is over, intensify! The Iraq war was not a mistake and it did more good than bad. Don't blame the deaths of all those Iraqi's on the US, blame them on the Islamic Terrorists which take pleasure in bombing their own people. The US still has the capability to deal with many threats that may arise. The USN and USAF alone can handle North Korea, Iran or China without the need for the US Army.

The bank of China being the richest in the world really means nothing in relation to US Military operations. So what if China has nukes, they won't dare use them unless they want to get destroyed. So what if China has the largest army, even if it was multiplied by ten, it would have no affect against the US. A large army means nothing when the USN can erase the majority of the PLAN and PLAAF with relative ease. What will the millions in the PLA do, scream from the Chinese coast? A war between the US and China would leave the PLA, PLAAF and PLAN in complete ruins in a short amount of time by the unstoppable power of the USN.

Military debates is what I do best and I'm willing to argue your point about the whole China-US affair in detail.

New_Era_Outlaw, other members are contributing to this too so don't only blame me. Last I checked, this whole argument didn't appear all because of me in the first place.

[New Era Outlaw]

Fair enough, but, just so that we're clear on the whole thing.....I can never support the actions of a man who blew the bejesus out of a country full of poor people just to steal their oil. That whole "War in Iraq" thing? Reeks of bulls**t.

[Grim Reaper]

As much as I would like to argue your point, I won't now. I've said enough concerning this matter and I'd basically be repeating myself with just in-depth detail if I were to argue you. I will try to refrain in the future as well, however, a comment from myself could trigger an argument from another that has an opposing view or baits me as seen here. If so, I will have to defend myself at all costs in such a matter.

[TrinireturnofGamez]

 ladies and gentlemen we have a winner .

 I renounce my title king of MCs , and crown Grim Reaper , USMC , Lord of All Mcs ,  Master of the superiority complex and King of the Blind .

Trinimc leaves you now in peace .

[New Era Outlaw]

ladies and gentlemen we have a winner .

 I renounce my title king of MCs , and crown Grim Reaper , USMC , Lord of All Mcs ,  Master of the superiority complex and King of the Blind .

Trinimc leaves you now in peace .

WHOOOOA, DAMN. The world must be coming to an end when Trini renounces his title. What's next, disciple posting about people's lives being saved?

I'm beginning to feel that discussing this with you will never reach anywhere though, clearly you are so "pro-victory" that it is impossible for you to even comprehend the possibility of error in the US approach to combating this supposed war on terror or to even consider the possibility that the US is not invincible. I'm feeling inclined to ask why you felt it necessary to join this forum in the first place if all you intended to do was act like a troll, but it won't matter.

Good Night folks

You know, I could never understand the minds of people who support war on the whole, to be honest. Support what exactly- a bunch of soldiers and/or terrorists coming in blowing up innocent people to kingdom come just to resolve a dispute that said people had nothing to do with? Personally, I think if both sides want to blast the s**t out of each other so badly, then we should tie them all up, drop them in the Gobi Desert and let them kill off each other with so much weapons that the Counter Strike players would have geek-gasms for YEARS, while the rest of us head down to Subway and enjoy a foot long Meatball Sub with extra cheese, or something.

You could never, ever, ever, EVER convince me that the 'War on Terror' was necessary.
I mean, really. Intelligence determines that Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, based in Afghanistan, were responsible for September 11th, and you go and hunt down Saddam Hussein and bomb the bejesus out of Iraq? Are you freaking INSANE?

That's like blowing up the local dog pound because some stray dog bit your a** and gave you rabies.


I may not be a rocket scientist or anything, but I'd be DAMNED if September 11th wasn't the excuse Bush needed to raid Iraq and ramraid them out of their oil. And yeah....you know what? As far as both sides go, they can all take a number, wait in line and all just kiss my a**. I can NOT understand why terrorists must kill innocent people that don't have a sliver of political influence in them to make a point, and why soldiers are going out there and blowing up people barely out of the Stone Age. I mean.....THIS is how we keep the peace? Get REAL.


What people fail to realise is that HUMAN LIFE is precious, not some dotish war declared by some jacka** that takes them by the busload, and not some f**ktarded suicide bombings on innocent people, either. Anybody who supports a war and killing people is just FULL of it, and personally needs to be rammed up the ass of a grizzly bear with digestive problems.


Ever wonder why some people's visions of the future are a bunch of disintegrated buildings ruled by red skies and giant, 20-foot cockroaches? Because, at the rate we're going, we'd have blown each other to kingdom come by then and wiped the human species CLEAN OFF THE MAP. Think about that the next time you're going to be so adamant about supporting a cause that takes more lives than it can repair.

[Grim Reaper]

ladies and gentlemen we have a winner .

 I renounce my title king of MCs , and crown Grim Reaper , USMC , Lord of All Mcs ,  Master of the superiority complex and King of the Blind .

Trinimc leaves you now in peace .

I see you have chosen to leave in a rather pathetic manner.....

Grim you missed my point with respect to perspective ENTIRELY.

Or maybe you didn't get my point in response.

the only thing that makes one person right another person wrong is the amount of exposure their side of the story gets.

When both have exposed all what they can, it is possible to give a logical explanation about who is right or who is wrong.

The comment about Superpowers... stop using my words out of context, you are too smart to think i would fall for that. clearly I was making a general statement, you want to intentionally misinterpret it, then go right on ahead. As for historical Data, sigh, I'm fairly certain that you udnerstand the concept of an example, attacking the example is pointless. But you seem to believe that you possess a better method of determining the future of superpowers/empires, yet you only criticized my example and have yet to state your method.

Well, maybe you should be more clear about how you deliver your statements, since my interpretation of it is not wrong in any way given what you said. However, if you didn't mean it in that context, then I take back what I said. My method is rather simple, don't make any assumptions and wait to see what becomes of the US. I'm neither assuming it will fail or flourish because I can't possibly know what will happen.

And since you con sider yourself an expert on Military discussion perhaps you can explain why the US military has been spending so many millions of dollars ( at least 500 million per year) on their marketing for the past 5 years. But before you tell me, let me tell you that from a marketing perspective this says that they were desperate to rebuild confidence in their military brand.

Can you please rephrase that for me or enlighten me on a few more details about what you are saying?

And the question of US technology is not a big deal actually. I f you read up on WW2 you would see that the German tanks were vastly superior to the american machines, but the american manufacturing companies were able to put out more vehicles than the germans. You should also note that the most manufacturing in the world takes place in Asia. Numbers will always matter in any war. So trust me when i say that the financial reserve of China will have serious impact on any war that would take place in the future.

I would really like to see how numbers would matter when planes that no radar systems can detect, fly over and bomb a nation's military installations with complete ease. Modern warfare is very much different to how it was during WWII, don't expect to see what worked during that era, work during our time.

I'm beginning to feel that discussing this with you will never reach anywhere though, clearly you are so "pro-victory" that it is impossible for you to even comprehend the possibility of error in the US approach to combating this supposed war on terror or to even consider the possibility that the US is not invincible. I'm feeling inclined to ask why you felt it necessary to join this forum in the first place if all you intended to do was act like a troll, but it won't matter.

I can throw out such remarks as well Laertes, but I would never lower myself to that level.

[New Era Outlaw]

Ugh. You know what? Thread locked, this discussion is over.